discreet Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453821353' post='2963093'] Do people realise that the tone of their amp on stage is not the same as the punters out front are hearing? [/quote] I'm pretty sure punters can't tell the difference between the sound of a bass guitar and an explosion in a dildo factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1453821181' post='2963090'] We never play through a big PA, and the few times i have the tone coming out of the monitors was not my tone, so they couldn't possible replace my rig and in no way was it enjoyable. [/quote] Depends upon the monitors... there's bass cabs and bass cabs. There's monitors and monitors. Of course, you need time to set up the monitors to get the tone to be as exactly like you want (that's if the monitor is even capable of doing that). - and most of the time, monitor mixes are "can you hear yourself? cool... lets go with that then". When you have the luxury of time, you can do an awesome mix on a monitor (gear allowing). I favour IEM mixes because there is nothing more constant! (And I don't end up with a whistle in my lugs). But yeah, nothing less enjoyable than trying to pump some bass through a weedy 8" monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453803754' post='2962804'] Tickled Trout sound crew. [/quote] Please stop it! I'm laughing so hard I think I might swallow my tongue! It's just the "tickled trout" name of the pub as well. Just conjures up all sorts of very silly images! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1453821300' post='2963092'] Tsk! Can you imagine a professional band relying on Ampeg equipment!? Mad!! [/quote] Stan at the Tickled Trout would turn you away for even darkening their doors with an Ampeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1453821899' post='2963112'] Please stop it! I'm laughing so hard I think I might swallow my tongue! It's just the "tickled trout" name of the pub as well. Just conjures up all sorts of very silly images! [/quote] Fish molesting. Edited January 26, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I don't even take my bass to gigs anymore; too much risk of broken strings, bass wiring problems, mistakes being made etc... just take a laptop & press play for a bassline I've recorded earlier. Sometimes I don't even go, someone else can press play. Brilliant reliability & perfect tone - that's what the audience wants right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1453821727' post='2963109'] I'm pretty sure punters can't tell the difference between the sound of a bass guitar and an explosion in a dildo factory. [/quote] another classic line from Discreet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453821627' post='2963104'] I think sj67 is meaning if it comes through the PA where your signal has likely been subjected to various processing. If it's just your rig amplifying the bass, then yeah, you're going to hear things a lot more uniform. [/quote] Yeah, probably but i read it as a blanket statement. Not everyone uses a full pro PA so having a loud back line/rig is needed. Some people seem to miss this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1453823717' post='2963147'] Yeah, probably but i read it as a blanket statement. Not everyone uses a full pro PA so having a loud back line/rig is needed. Some people seem to miss this point. [/quote] You are right - I made this point earlier. Nobody seems to want to invest or have ownership of a PA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453824316' post='2963156'] You are right - I made this point earlier. Nobody seems to want to invest or have ownership of a PA! [/quote] I invested a huge amount (to me) in pa and we have a great system for what we do. What I wouldn't invest in is the monitors unless it was one just for me. If the guys in the band want a monitor then they can pull their wallets out and buy their own and I'll give them whatever mix they want. I'm very tempted to go in ear monitor though for my hearing's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1453824931' post='2963166'] I invested a huge amount (to me) in pa and we have a great system for what we do. What I wouldn't invest in is the monitors unless it was one just for me. If the guys in the band want a monitor then they can pull their wallets out and buy their own and I'll give them whatever mix they want. I'm very tempted to go in ear monitor though for my hearing's sake. [/quote] I had the very same conversation with a friend of mine. Band members should be keen to invest in their own monitoring. It makes me mad that singers won't put a finger in their pocket for a mic, let a lone a monitor or PA. In ears - best thing I ever did. Check out the big in ears thread if you haven't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453752054' post='2962493'] Here's your first problem. Any sound tech worth their salt would never use an onboard DI. The amp dies, so does all direct signal to the desk. Chance of a DI box failing? - very low in comparison. [/quote] I take good care of my gear and don´t abuse it. I check it and do maintenance regularly. I can't say the same for those scratched and dented DI's that look like they've fallen from a moving truck in to a meat grinder. Luckily i have good gear with great DI's, i allways ask the tech if they prefer to use theirs or mine and one look at the Alembic preamp is all they need to go with mine. I never insisted in using my gear against the tech's will. As for the amp failling i think there's a higher probability that the bass or any of my pedals and cables fail before the amp. Even if the amp pack up it will depend on the failure because i send my signal PRE-EQ (no mud or tone-snobbery going to FoH) so it will need to have a failure in the PSU or the input jack to cut my signal to the desk. But even if the unthinkable happens i do keep their DI on top of the amp in case of an emergency, just like a spare battery and jack cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1453823717' post='2963147'] Yeah, probably but i read it as a blanket statement. Not everyone uses a full pro PA so having a loud back line/rig is needed. Some people seem to miss this point. [/quote] Well just to clarify this thread is/was about the backline being louder than the pa system that was meant to be handling the show, non of my comments apply to a gig where the bass rig is front of house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453824316' post='2963156'] You are right - I made this point earlier. Nobody seems to want to invest or have ownership of a PA! [/quote] Sometimes it's just not practicle. All the bands I've played with have used cars, and these cars are full of band members, band equipment and as much PA that will fit. If we had invested in a larger PA it would also mean someone, or all of use buying another large car or van, and have the extra cost to keep it on the road/parked etc. Considering I have been gigging constantly for almost the past 13 years with this set up, in 3 different but similar bands its hard to convince the others that they need to fork out a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453828807' post='2963217'] Well just to clarify this thread is/was about the backline being louder than the pa system that was meant to be handling the show, non of my comments apply to a gig where the bass rig is front of house! [/quote] None the less,the original question was 'Why such powerful amps..?', to which some have replied that they only use one amp, big enough for the 'backline only' gigs, and the same rig, turned down if necessary, for any FOH gigs. Seems reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453833491' post='2963271'] None the less,the original question was 'Why such powerful amps..?', to which some have replied that they only use one amp, big enough for the 'backline only' gigs, and the same rig, turned down if necessary, for any FOH gigs. Seems reasonable to me. [/quote] Yes, I was going to say that as well. There was a question in the first post that has lead to a general discussion on a few aspects of using larger rigs. I totally understand that what we hear at large gigs is not the same as on stage, but not all PA rigs are large enough to mask the on stage sound, and not all bands will completely depend on FOH PA. It depends on the PA used, so a blanket statement isn't really 100% accurate IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnFitzgerald Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Monitor setup at my next gig, should do fine. (I'm doing a grand total of 6 gigs this year, but they all really count.) I've copied this straight off the venue page. :-) And yes, I've done loads of backline only, squeezed into a corner type gigs. After a lifetime of this crap, I'm entitled to gloat at a shot at a proper venue. Don't worry, I won't get carried away. [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x Midas Sienna 480, 48 Ch[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]5 x XTA GQ600 Graphic EQ[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x T.C. Electronics M-one [/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Drawmer DS201XLR Dual Gate[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]3 x Drawmer DL241XLR Dual Compressor[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x XTA C2 Dual Compressor[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]9 x Crown MA24 Amps[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]10 x Logic Systems CM20 Active Wedges[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Logic systems Side Fills[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Side Fill Rack Amps[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x BSS Omni Drive System Processor[/size][/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453833491' post='2963271'] None the less,the original question was 'Why such powerful amps..?', to which some have replied that they only use one amp, big enough for the 'backline only' gigs, and the same rig, turned down if necessary, for any FOH gigs. Seems reasonable to me. [/quote] Yep.. ',the original question was 'Why such powerful amps.?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453795072' post='2962716'] Again, sound guys will want pre eq. With di before amp, they know exactly what they are getting - as opposed to a bass player sending "their tone" with a shed load of bass which is just going to be mud through foh. [/quote] That is only if they feel the guy doesn't know what he is sending... so the default is to go pre. No reason not to go post if the signal is decent and the bass player knows what is going on. Take it as a compliment if they go for your signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453836214' post='2963318'] Yep.. ',the original question was 'Why such powerful amps.?' [/quote] So the actual answer to the question is simply "because for some gigs we do not have a big enough pa system available so this rig does FOH along with my own monitoring, sorry I didn't realise it was too loud out front muddying the overall mix, I'll turn it down. Any chance of a bit of me in this wedge?thanks. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453839551' post='2963363'] So the actual answer to the question is simply "because for some gigs we do not have a big enough pa system available so this rig does FOH along with my own monitoring, sorry I didn't realise it was too loud out front muddying the overall mix, I'll turn it down. Any chance of a bit of me in this wedge?thanks. :-) [/quote] that's too polite! This is the interwebz!!! what do you think you're doing??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Ha! No fish puns JTUK? I thought we had reeled you in for a moment ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 [quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1453836170' post='2963316'] Monitor setup at my next gig, should do fine. (I'm doing a grand total of 6 gigs this year, but they all really count.) I've copied this straight off the venue page. :-) And yes, I've done loads of backline only, squeezed into a corner type gigs. After a lifetime of this crap, I'm entitled to gloat at a shot at a proper venue. Don't worry, I won't get carried away. [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x Midas Sienna 480, 48 Ch[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]5 x XTA GQ600 Graphic EQ[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x T.C. Electronics M-one [/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Drawmer DS201XLR Dual Gate[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]3 x Drawmer DL241XLR Dual Compressor[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x XTA C2 Dual Compressor[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]9 x Crown MA24 Amps[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]10 x Logic Systems CM20 Active Wedges[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Logic systems Side Fills[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]2 x Side Fill Rack Amps[/size][/font][/color] [color=#1A1A1A][font=Verdana][size=3]1 x BSS Omni Drive System Processor[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Ah! So you're playing the Tickled Trout too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1453821727' post='2963109'] I'm pretty sure punters can't tell the difference between the sound of a bass guitar and an explosion in a dildo factory. [/quote] i'm trying to imagine what the latter sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453888634' post='2963734'] i'm trying to imagine what the latter sounds like. [/quote] You know that "music" that "the kids" are listening to these days? That. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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