discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) [b]Do you REALLY need a drummer..?[/b] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Can of worms time: I had something of an epiphany last night. Went to see a Western Swing/Bluegrass-type covers band (yes, I know) and it quickly became obvious there was no drum kit on stage. 'Whaa..?' was my first outraged reaction. But when they started playing all became very clear, in more ways than one.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The line-up was steel guitar, electric guitar, vocals, bass, acoustic guitar (with pickup). The acoustic guitarist also played a small kick drum from the standing position. So the kick/bass was present, the acoustic guitar played most of what would have been snare hits and the hi-hat was covered by the singer who expertly played a small washboard...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]So there you have it - no drummer necessary![/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Which was great, because the volume level was dictated only by the volume of the acoustic guitar and singing. The band had a very nice, full-range sound and covered every rhythmic frequency as a drummer would. Everything was crystal clear and open and very audible. There was no 'hole' in the sound at all, everyone played in time and propelled the songs forward very nicely. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Only the acoustic guitar and vocals were going through the PA.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It strikes me that we bass players only buy the insanely loud rigs that we do because we have to compete with a bloody drummer! Take him (or her) out of the equation and everything's a [i]lot [/i]easier.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In this context, at this gig, [i]and with this style of music[/i], it was easy to see how a drum kit would have been [i]way [/i]too loud and unsubtle. A 'real' kit would have killed it stone dead - unless played very quietly and very sympathetically [Note: Yes, everyone knows a great drummer who can play quietly and sympathetically, but in the real world they generally do not].[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Of course if you're in a pop band or any kind of rock band, not having a drummer would be totally unfeasible and I'm not advocating a general no-drums trend. If you've been lucky enough to play with a really good drummer you'll know that there's nothing like it. But in the context of folk or country or any of the many sub-genres associated with this and other types of suitable music, I think not using a drummer could well be a [i]huge [/i]advantage.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Imagine doing a gig where you don't have to transport the drummer and his kit to and from the venue (drummers never have their own transport). Imagine setting up quickly and efficiently without having a drummer strew his kit and cases all over the stage, blatantly encroaching on your space. Imagine not having to wait around while the drummer takes an hour to set up and is still fiddling around tuning and adjusting things even as you start your first number. Imagine not having to stand around like a lemon on stage as you start your set while someone prises the drummer away from the bar, or fetches him from a [i]different [/i]bar down the road...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Imagine not having the drummer whacking his crash cymbal inches from your ear..! OK, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I can think of a [i]lot [/i]more advantages, but I really don't want this to be a drummer-hate thread. Or at least not much, anyway... [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What think you? Any bass players out there in a band with no drums? How is it working out for you?[/font][/color] Edited December 6, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I learned to play slap DB so we could be drummerless, so much less hassle, very little loss tonally and much tighter rhythmically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1449402174' post='2923145'] I learned to play slap DB so we could be drummerless, so much less hassle, very little loss tonally and much tighter rhythmically. [/quote] That's interesting. Is the DB amplified or can you be adequately heard acoustically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Everyone can do without a bad drummer, but IMO nothing can beat being in a band with a good one. 99% of the drummers I've played with over the last 30 years have been good and a pleasure to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICbass Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Ooh can of worms there. I've done duo gigs in pubs that way. Guitarist singer and me (no drum-machine). If you're both reasonably tight timewise it can work fine. Why is sex without a condom like a drummer? It's nicer without but these days you have to really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 In quiet, 'shuffle'-type formations, I use brushes, which can be very discreet (Ha..!), and I would never (or very rarely...) 'whack' a crash cymbal, anyway. That would be the equivalent of 'slapping' a bass, and what self-respecting musician would do that, eh..? Yes, you're right; heavy metal without a kit may lack that certain 'something', but an acoustic drum kit, played properly, in context, can fit in nicely with folk, skiffle, bluegrass or jug music. Not if played by an over-hormoned lumberjack, I grant you, but [i]real [/i]drummers don't have these problems. It [i]does [/i]make a pleasant change as a line up, of course, but I'd suggest that it limits somewhat the percussive creativity unless the multi-instrumentalists are extremely good (which they may well be...). Just my tuppence-worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Most of the music I listen to these days has no drummer, and the last few gigs & writing projects I've done have been all acoustic with no drummer. Wish I'd done it decades ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1449403923' post='2923165'] ...an acoustic drum kit, played properly, in context, can fit in nicely with folk, skiffle, bluegrass or jug music. Not if played by an over-hormoned lumberjack, I grant you, but [i]real [/i]drummers don't have these problems. [/quote] I was awaiting your response with bated trousers, Dad... You're quite right of course, a [i]real [/i]drummer is always a welcome addition to any band. But in today's modern wannabe meatspace, real drummers are very much at a premium. I've been lucky enough to play with one or two world-class drummers and that's most exhilarating to say the least, but they are rarely to be found on the pub and small club circuit. I must stress the context - not all genres are suitable for the no-drums treatment and as I said in the OP, most rock/pop genres absolutely require a drum kit, preferably played by a great drummer. Other genres, possibly less sophisticated technically, possibly more about the feel and overall ambience and leaning towards skiffle/folk/roots, maybe not so much. Edited December 6, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449403188' post='2923156'] That's interesting. Is the DB amplified or can you be adequately heard acoustically? [/quote] Rehearsals to small gigs unplugged, moderate gigs (up to 50 is so punters) into a PJB Briefcase, large gigs Ampeg or Aguilar. I've adopted a rather agricultural slap style that is essentially a snare on the 2 and 4, and play with action as high as possible to get a big thump on the 1 and 3. Of course, it varies with song and I don't play it in all (we do some Tom Waits that just doesn't need it), be even with tracks on which you wouldn't expect it to work, such as Paul Simon's Late in the Evening, it holds thing together nicely. Puts me in charge of holding rhythm and bass together, which reduces slippage to a huge degree, especially live. Edited December 6, 2015 by Beedster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449404381' post='2923170'] Other genres, possibly less sophisticated technically, possibly more about the feel and overall ambience and leaning towards skiffle/folk/roots, maybe not so much. [/quote] I would seriously take issue with your comment about folk/roots musicians being less sophisticated technically - most of the most talented, technically adept musicians I've ever seen & heard have been folk/roots players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1449404949' post='2923177'] I would seriously take issue with your comment about folk/roots musicians being less sophisticated technically - most of the most talented, technically adept musicians I've ever seen & heard have been folk/roots players. [/quote] Fair point, I'm finding it hard to adequately explain what I meant by that. I'll think about it and get back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449404381' post='2923170']...today's modern wannabe meatspace... [/quote] Ah, yes; I know nothing of these matters. 'My bad', as I think some of our younger readers are wont to say..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Depends on the style of music. Some genres like the one you went to see are suitable but many others would sound wrong without the mad person at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 We had a problem a couple of years ago with the country band I play in. Our usual drummer could n't make the gig, and so had booked a dep to cover it. As I was driving to the gig the dep rang and apologised for not being able to play, due to some family issues. I rang a drummer who lived 5 mins from the gig, but he could n't do it as his main kit was in a van somewhere and his spare kit was in the loft!! So, we did the gig without drums. Piano & accordion, guitar and bass, fortunately all singers too. And, yes you've guessed it, we went down a storm. Versions of songs we usually played sounded so different but good, and some 'arrangements' were made up on the fly to ensure they worked. Quite a revelation for band and audience. Now would it have worked without the bass I wonder....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 We definately need a drummer, and one playing live at that - no way our music would sound anywhere near what it`s meant to, even if playing along to backing tracks. But some genres, well I`ve seen bands with those beat-box thingys and the sound hasn`t been lacking due to not having a full kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1449406839' post='2923209'] We definately need a drummer, and one playing live at that - no way our music would sound anywhere near what it`s meant to, even if playing along to backing tracks. But some genres, well I`ve seen bands with those beat-box thingys and the sound hasn`t been lacking due to not having a full kit. [/quote] Oh God Lozz, there's no way your band could do without a drummer! Punk rock without drums isn't punk rock as far as I'm concerned. I think you'd be hard pressed to play even country rock without drums. But there are definitely some types of music that can be as good, if not better, without the madman at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnm93 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Duh! Yes, of course we do. He has a van.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I've been doing open mic for a while started out on my own, just acoustic guitar and vocals, then my lady learnt basic drumming just a hi hat, snare and crash cymbal and it's taken it onto another level, so I would say on balance that drums while not being essential are certainly has it's advantages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Too much work and I wouldn't be interested, tbh. Depends on the music style,of course. I recently did a duo gig and thought at the time that the money split was good, but I did the gig really to find out what the singer was like.. I'd not rush back to do another duo....but I would do a band with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1449433874' post='2923523'] Yes, of course we do. He has a van... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) My very first gig ,was without a drummer. It was my 30th birthday gig , we did rock covers and a few daft singles also. The line up was Vox, guitar , me and a chap who played samples and a drum machine. We 're all really good friends.We all worked in the same company at the time . The experienced people were the guitarist and vocalist . The drum machine packed up temporarily in the second set . Unexpectedly of course. I played a few comedy riffs ,which managed to get us out of trouble . So, yes I would play without a real drummer. Edited December 6, 2015 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1449433874' post='2923523'] Duh! Yes, of course we do. He has a van.... [/quote] Ah, yes; of course. I forgot to mention that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm a product of the 60s. I have to have a drummer. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1449444481' post='2923659'] I'm a product of the 60s. I have to have a drummer. [/quote] Is that a new thing or an old thing, though..? Western swing appeared in the 1920s and bluegrass in the 1940s... But I do agree that for true rock 'n' roll you do need a drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Very lucky to be playing with an excellent drummer at the moment in my rock band... As you say though for some types of music it's not really required. I've done some gigs backing acoustic singer songwriter types and they sounded fine without a drummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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