Naetharu Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hi folks, Having taken the plunge into six-string bass a few weeks back I'm having a cracking good time learning it for the most part. However, the one I have ( a very cheap Harley Benton 'Progressive' ) suffers from a horribly floppy B string. I've been learning to play Glass Prison by Dream Theatre tonight but it is very difficult to get the tight fast rhythm needed for some of the riffs on the low B since the thing is just wobbling all over the show. Are there any tips/tricks that migth make this one more usable or is it really a case of look for an upgrade to a more serious bass now I know that 6-string is for me? If the latter, are there any suggestions of basses that I could consider, that would not be too expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameronj279 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Only thing I can really think of is experiment with the strings you're using. Other than that my only thoughts are really to do with the construction of the bass itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Maybe try a heavier gauge B - though I just looked online and it seems your bass probably comes fitted with a 130, so going to something like a 135 might not make much difference. You might try hex-core strings which are usually rather stiffer than strings wound on a round core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'd be more worried about the actual tone of the B and how defined it is.... so tension should be an easier fix... But there might be a reason for 130... as the bass can't cope . I'd be thinking that the bass isn't even going to do it...and a 5 is really defined by the B' ...and not much point in them if they don't work Look and save for a better bass... but there is no garuantee that a reasonable hike in the budget will achieve anything. I'd goes as far as to say that you are going to have a long search or be very lucky...you can pay £1500 and still get a B that sucks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1445891637' post='2895159'] I'd be more worried about the actual tone of the B and how defined it is.... [/quote] Aye, to be honest its not great but then I guess I was not expecting very much from the bass given that it cost peanuts. It works fine for what I do for the most part, just there are a couple of bits where fast riffing on the B string is needed and I find it hard to keep the rhythm solid when it's twanging all over the show. Interesting to know that this is an issue that can be there with pricey basses too however. I'm tempted to save up for something with fanned frets (probably looking toward a Dingwall) so as to get a much longer scale length. Oh and cheers Howie for the tip about string core types. I'll going to re-string the bass sometime over the next few weeks anyhow as the ones that come with it are a bit too bright for my tastes. I'll have a look at see what I can find with hex cores and see if that improves things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It was a starting point and you stuck at it and got better. When you get to the point of noticing the limitations of your instrument you've got to get a better one to keep the momentum going. Time for a good 6 string bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 What strings are on it ? If you want a better bass, I'd maybe look for a used Yamaha John Myung model. It seems that you like him judging by the song that you mention practicing . They can be bought for silly money really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles'tone Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Try nickel Dr Lowriders, they're made for the job. Fantastic B. I have a HB Progressive 5 string and the B is good on it IMO, even though I'm using tapewounds at the mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Eventually you will want to upgrade to a better bass. IME you need to spend at least £1000 new to get a bass with a decent low B. In the mean time there's a couple of things you can try to improve matters. 1. Heavier gauge B. If you look at the tension figures (for those string manufacturers that supply them) the B string is always the lowest tension of the lot. I wouldn't bother with anything lighter than 130. 2. Try a taper-wound string. However to get the benefits of this you need to make sure that the taper is the right length so that the string actually sits on the saddle. Edited October 27, 2015 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1445903220' post='2895322'] I'll going to re-string the bass sometime over the next few weeks anyhow as the ones that come with it are a bit too bright for my tastes. I'll have a look at see what I can find with hex cores and see if that improves things. [/quote] Those Harley Benton Progressive basses are excelllent (I breifly had a four string version) but the stock strings are appalling... horrible cheap nasty things. Any decent set of strings will vastly improve the entire bass not just the B string Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1445932348' post='2895414'] 2. Try a tape-wound string. However to get the benefits of this you need to make sure that the taper is the right length so that the string actually sits on the saddle. [/quote] You mean taper wound? That's a whole different string! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musashimonkey Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 A good bass and good strings are the mainstay of the solution here. I must say however, and in my opinion of course; that even with the best B string, your playing dynamics still need to adjust between the strings, as you would playing hard across all strings on a four string. I guess this dynamic variability is increased due to the extra range of the 6 strings. It's a shame they don't do balance tension strings for 6 string bass to go some way to address this. It may be that you look at the gauge of the E string, so that there is less tension difference between the B and E string, so your playing dynamics don't have to alter much between at the high speeds you play at. Unless of course you're leaning towards fan-frets which looks to solve this issue, but for me creates another one when playing chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musashimonkey Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 And of course an increase in scale length to increase tension! ☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I think there are two separate issues that some people have - 'floppiness' or a lack of note definition. Setup and a string change can make a world of difference for both of these issues - I've had basses where I hated the low B until I put a new set of strings on - so start there, especially if you're still on the stock strings. Take extra special care to ensure there is no degree of twist in the string as it is tightened up - this can kill the sound. Construction helps too. I can see how this might help note definition - increased stiffness and decreased damping in the neck material and body join will stop the higher order harmonics being absorbed as quickly, which results in a brighter sound making it easier for your ear to detect the pitch. But I can't see this affecting 'floppiness' much unless the neck is so bendy that plucking the low B makes the neck bow sufficiently to slacken the string momentarily and make it clack against the frets. Increased scale length also helps, but I have played 34" basses with better B's than some 35" basses, so it's not a cure-all by itself. As for only expensive basses having good sounding B's - that may have been true 5-10 years ago, but it certainly isn't today. The 'best' low B (i.e. the most clear piano like tone) I have played comes from a 34" Warwick Rockbass Streamer that cost £280 new - although it does have a 5 piece laminated quarter-sawn neck which is not common at this price point! Even the low end Yamaha necks have a similar construction these days. Edited October 27, 2015 by dannybuoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 A better bass that wouldn't break the bank? IMO a Lakland 55-01 would fit the bill. It's a big bass but very easy to play. The neck and B strings are every bit as good as the USA models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1445936956' post='2895462'] Increased scale length also helps, but I have played 34" basses with better B's than some 35" basses, so it's not a cure-all by itself. [/quote] IME you have to go to at least 36" scale length before it makes a significant difference to be worth while and of course then you have tension issues with the higher strings and I would imagine even more so on a 6-string with a high C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) How does an expensive bass with the same string length have a 'less floppy B string' than a cheaper model ??!? Edited October 27, 2015 by scojack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1445939932' post='2895500'] A better bass that wouldn't break the bank? IMO a Lakland 55-01 would fit the bill. It's a big bass but very easy to play. The neck and B strings are every bit as good as the USA models. [/quote] Only a 5 string though, I think the OP wants a 6 string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='scojack' timestamp='1445955485' post='2895678'] How does an expensive bass with the same string length have a 'less floppy B string' than a cheaper model ??!? [/quote] I've never quite understood that idea either. The tone of the B string can be clearer on a well made bass with a stiff neck (I've heard it myself when swapping necks on the same bass) but the tension of the string won't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Does the string break angle over the nut (and therefore also at the bridge) have any effect on string tension? I have basses with headstocks at various angles but I don't know why there is such a range of difference between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='stevebasshead' timestamp='1445962416' post='2895734'] Does the string break angle over the nut (and therefore also at the bridge) have any effect on string tension? I have basses with headstocks at various angles but I don't know why there is such a range of difference between them. [/quote] Yup, break angle on the bridge saddle and at the nut makes a massive difference to how a string sounds and even feels in some cases. In my experience, more expensive basses have been built with better attention to detail, which is why string tension can be better. There's no reason why you couldn't buy a cheaper bass and strike it lucky though, or even take a duffer and have it tweaked and set up properly by someone who knows what they're doing and end up with a belter. Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 "more expensive basses have been built with better attention to detail, which is why string tension can be better" Nope sorry Eude can't agree with this generalisation, many expensive basses use pretty standard parts from Schaller, Hipshot etc etc. Their break angle being no different from an inexpensive bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='stevebasshead' timestamp='1445962416' post='2895734'] Does the string break angle over the nut (and therefore also at the bridge) have any effect on string tension? I have basses with headstocks at various angles but I don't know why there is such a range of difference between them. [/quote] Not on tension, but it does affect the compliance of the string which is how "stiff" it feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 [quote name='scojack' timestamp='1445964014' post='2895754'] "more expensive basses have been built with better attention to detail, which is why string tension can be better" Nope sorry Eude can't agree with this generalisation, many expensive basses use pretty standard parts from Schaller, Hipshot etc etc. Their break angle being no different from an inexpensive bass. [/quote] OK, well the well cut and set up nut still stands, no? To be fair when I said "cheaper bass", I mean really cheap, an inexpensive instrument without branded hardware from Schaller, Hipshot etcs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Cheers Eude & BRX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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