How to dial in a good tone?

[Naetharu]

Hi folks,

So I am just starting to play bass with other people rather than simply at home. I'm just hoping that someone can help me out with the basics of how to dial in a good bass tone that is usable in a band context (playing brit-pop/lightish rock).

My set-up is an Ashdown Mi-Bass 2.0 going into a pair of 112 Mi-Bass cabs (three band EQ), an MXR compressor (the one with the five dials and little LED strip) and an Ibanez SR300 (Three band pre-amp).

I'm just a little confused at where to even start so any advice would be really appreciated.

best wishes

James

[discreet]

Hi James, this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. What I'd do (and what I mostly still do) is to set everything 'flat' (or what looks like flat) on your amp and guitar, i.e. everything in the 12 o'clock or centre-position. Then just concentrate on getting the volume level right. Over time you will know if you need to cut or boost any frequencies through experience. At this stage I'd leave the compressor out of the equation, that's a whole subject on its own right there. You may not even need to use it at all.

There's no 'best' setting for an amp or bass EQ otherwise everyone would set their controls to it and that would be that! But they don't.

[Naetharu]

Hi mate,

that's actually really helpful. It might sound silly but I just didnt quite know where to start. At least that gives me a method as such to begin with and work out from.

Cheers!

[Truckstop]

The only advice I'd ever impart to anyone is to cut as much bass as you can bear to and leave everything else flat.

In fact, I'd turn it off completely and then bring it up slightly until you notice the difference. That's as much as you need.

[Mykesbass]

As Discreet says, but I'd also take the compressor out to start with. Also, most active basses will have notched controls so you should be able to feel them click into 12 o'clock. Finally, for clean, keep the gain down and the output up relative to each other. To warm up/make the tone aa bit grittier, turn the output down and the gain up.

[ambient]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436878966' post='2821597']
Hi James, this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. What I'd do (and what I mostly still do) is to set everything 'flat' (or what looks like flat) on your amp and guitar, i.e. everything in the 12 o'clock or centre-position. Then just concentrate on getting the volume level right. Over time you will know if you need to cut or boost any frequencies through experience. At this stage I'd leave the compressor out of the equation, that's a whole subject on its own right there. You may not even need to use it at all.

There's no 'best' setting for an amp or bass EQ otherwise everyone would set their controls to it and that would be that! But they don't.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I do too.

Just leave everything flat, and then play for a bit, and try and 'hear in you head', what you do or don't like about your sound.

I'm amazed sometimes when I turn up at studios, and the amps tone controls are all over the place, I'm just left wondering how on earth the previous guy must have sounded.

I personally just keep everything flat, and change playing position and style on the bass accordingly.

[tinyd]

One thing I've found is that when playing in a band (as opposed to at home) the mids are more usable than the bottom end. The low frequencies tend to cause drums to resonate and generally add to an overall 'muddiness' if not used carefully, whereas the mids sit more naturally in the mix. Of course, this depends on your amp, your bass, the music you play, your band mates' sounds etc, but it might we worth thinking about...

[toneknob]

Yep, agree here on set everything flat to start with, and roll off the bass frequencies if needed. Also, tilt the amp back to decouple it from the floor, this'll give you a bit more idea of what's actually coming out of the speaker.

Book yourself an hour before rehearsal with just yourself in the room to listen at volume (not loud, but more than bedroom volumes) and experiment with the amp's EQ to see what frequencies you like or dislike in your sound. Watch some footage of bands with bassists whose sound you like, and see if you can clock their settings, or dig them from interviews with your favourite artists.

[PaulWarning]

good advise on here, the only thing I'll add is what sounds good when you play on your own might not work in a band situation, a boost around 400Hz will help you sit in the mix better if you think you're getting lost rather than just cranking up the volume

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1436880331' post='2821615']
One thing I've found is that when playing in a band (as opposed to at home) the mids are more usable than the bottom end. The low frequencies tend to cause drums to resonate and generally add to an overall 'muddiness' if not used carefully, whereas the mids sit more naturally in the mix. Of course, this depends on your amp, your bass, the music you play, your band mates' sounds etc, but it might we worth thinking about...
[/quote]

Yes, this is the next step. Once you have "dialled in" your tone, be prepared to throw it all back out when gigging, as often, what you hear up close doesn't work in the room. Try listening out front with a long lead, and you'll be surprised how often you need to turn bass down and mids up - can end up sounding horrid when you are close to your rig, but at least you'll know it sounds good to the punters.

Edit - was still typing as PaulWarning said more or less the same, much more succinctly!

Edited July 14, 2015 by Mykesbass

[Marc S]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436878966' post='2821597']
Hi James, this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. What I'd do (and what I mostly still do) is to set everything 'flat' (or what looks like flat) on your amp and guitar, i.e. everything in the 12 o'clock or centre-position. Then just concentrate on getting the volume level right. Over time you will know if you need to cut or boost any frequencies through experience. At this stage I'd leave the compressor out of the equation, that's a whole subject on its own right there. You may not even need to use it at all.

There's no 'best' setting for an amp or bass EQ otherwise everyone would set their controls to it and that would be that! But they don't.
[/quote]

Another +1 for discreet's answer here
There really is no "right" setting, as it will not only depend on your bass, the liveliness of your strings, your amp head
but it will also depend on what instruments your fellow band members are playing,
how lively their strings are etc on the day
plus, every venue differs acoustically too!

As others have said,
start off with everything (inc bass eq controls) at the 12 o'clock position
(some Ibanez basses have a "flat" click position setting there) plus the controls on your amp
Then dial in / out frequencies as necessary

As you are just starting out, make sure you make just one adjustment at a time too.....

Good luck

[Skol303]

Good question and plenty of great advice already!

My own basic tips would be…

[b]1) Don’t just boost… try cutting too[/b] (i.e. turn the EQ dials down to remove/dampen frequencies). This works especially well when scooping out the ‘muddy’ tones that often clog up the lower mid-range around 200-400Hz, resulting in a clearer and 'less woolly' tone.

[b]2) It might be called a ‘bass’… but most of the tone is actually found in the mid-range[/b] (as others have said above). A good place to start fiddling around is 1kHz, where you can typically dial-in a nice amount of ‘clarity’. Cranking up the 'bass' dial is often a recipe for turning your tone to inaudible mush, so go easy with that low end.

[b]3) Excite your upper harmonics![/b] A touch of saturation or even distortion can do wonders when trying to help your sound cut though a busy mix. You don’t need much… and it might even sound a little weird when playing solo, but in the context of a mix (i.e. when blended with other instruments) a little ‘uncleanliness’ to your bass tone can add bags of character. Try it

[cameltoe]

Use a P bass. That is all!

[KevB]

The one thing I would say is talk to your bandmates and tell them that you are still sorting out 'your sound'. In truth there is only so much you can do about getting the right tone in isolation. Things change once you are in your band situation and you have the other instruments sitting over the top of what you are playing. You can get more out of adjusting a few things in 10 minutes in a rehearsal with other people than all evening trying things out at home and then trying to second guess how that might translate to your live band. Get the others to accept you might be periodcally dropping out of the mix during rehearsals to tweak a few things during a song and they should not stop playing.

Edited July 14, 2015 by KevB

[pjb13.bass]

If you do ever discover how to get the perfect tone out of any bass through any rig in any venue/situation please let me know first and then sign the piece of paper I will send you shortly afterwards. Apart from that good luck .

[Naetharu]

Fantastic advice here folks, thank you so much!

Just a quick question about the compressor - I notice that quite a few of you are saying leave it out for now. The reason that I have it is that I play a few songs that have a mixture of slap and finger-style, and I play with a pretty light touch. I was using the compressor to even out the dynamics a little so that I don't have really quiet finger-style playing nor massive booms when it comes to slaps/pops.

Will using the compressor for this purpose make it considerably harder to get an easy tone?

many thanks again

James

[JTUK]

You can't get there unless you know where 'there's is that you are trying to get too.
Many bass players never solve this which is why they are constantly trying out things
and hope they'll will luck out. They are the ones that will take a phone pic of their settings, most likely as
if they were to lose them, they don't know how to get them back.

I'd agree with leaving out the compressor and i'd also suggest you EQ one thing at a time
to make sure you know what that actually does.

It is ok-ish having someone else's sound as a reference but this could be futile as you may not play like that guy.

Also agree with 12 'o clock on the dials and working thru systematically from the treble down.
Beware of filters or enhancers as these are internal maps or pre shapes.. as these alone are very powerful tone shaping devices.
If poss, switch them off...and only bring them into play to tweak after you are almost there on the amp. Otherwise these confuse.
You are going to need to put time into understanding what you are doing and what tone control affects what and build an idea
of what frequencies constitute your sound. This can takes eons and some bass players never really get it, so don't worry
if you don't understand it all... it is a work in progress.
As you get better, you will use less bass and want more character in your tone.

[Roger2611]

Once you find the tone you like you will always know how to get back to it, every room you play in will sound different and in certain rooms the sound you love will completely desert you...at that point you can make small adjustments to counteract the nasty acoustics of that room but, you always know where your favoured sound lies

[JTUK]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1436893641' post='2821824']
Fantastic advice here folks, thank you so much!

Just a quick question about the compressor - I notice that quite a few of you are saying leave it out for now. The reason that I have it is that I play a few songs that have a mixture of slap and finger-style, and I play with a pretty light touch. I was using the compressor to even out the dynamics a little so that I don't have really quiet finger-style playing nor massive booms when it comes to slaps/pops.

Will using the compressor for this purpose make it considerably harder to get an easy tone?

many thanks again

James
[/quote]

First, I'm not a fan of compressors on my signal but you'll want to have the slap style number jump out during a track as it is easily buried anyway... and if you are going to do it you'll want to hear it. Next time you watch a band see how easy it can be to lose a slap line under everything else .
It is for the most part a featured thing anyway so you want it to come thru and if you are playing more of a riffy type part, just back off on how hard you pop the strings.

You should be aiming for this sort of control and nuance anyway, longer term, IMO.

[JapanAxe]

And a word from Scott:

[media]http://youtu.be/-vUNUo3TbyI[/media]

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1436893641' post='2821824']
Fantastic advice here folks, thank you so much!

Just a quick question about the compressor - I notice that quite a few of you are saying leave it out for now. The reason that I have it is that I play a few songs that have a mixture of slap and finger-style, and I play with a pretty light touch. I was using the compressor to even out the dynamics a little so that I don't have really quiet finger-style playing nor massive booms when it comes to slaps/pops.

Will using the compressor for this purpose make it considerably harder to get an easy tone?

many thanks again

James
[/quote]

Don't be too put off using it, but like the already good advice given on tone controls, go easy on the settings. Dial in just enough so that you can hear it working at your with your normal finger-style playing level then back it off slightly, when you start slapping it will kick in to tame it.

[landwomble]

Just to agree with points above - when you're playing loud and live and need to hear yourself or feel you need more bottom end - turn up the MIDS, not the bass...

[JTUK]

[quote name='landwomble' timestamp='1436907675' post='2822018']
Just to agree with points above - when you're playing loud and live and need to hear yourself or feel you need more bottom end - turn up the MIDS, not the bass...
[/quote]

First you have the learn to play with them.... which is why a lot of bass players have a bassy tone, let along new starters.

Bass in their friend but it isn't a very interesting sound...and too much is a brutal tone killer, IMO

[Bloodaxe]

If it was good enough for Jack Bruce...

[The Funk]

What you need to do is sell everything you have and start again from scratch and keep doing that for years.

Nah, just set all the EQ controls flat, turn off any compressors/limiters, turn your bass's volume and tone controls to full, and slowly bring up the volume on the preamp (it might be called Gain, Volume) just to the point that the amp starts distorting, then back off it until it's loud but not distorting, then control the overall volume with the power amp section (might be called Master, Volume, Output). Then have a think about whether it's sounding too harsh (back off the treble/tone on your bass) or too muffled (roll up the tone/treble on your bass).

That should do it.