Rig shrinking - bass world surely leading the way?

[mrtcat]

The bass world is IMO really changing rapidly in terms of using design and technology to make it's amps and cabs smaller, lighter, louder and more versatile.

A few years back this was my rig

[attachment=195736:29858_395416356371_4242490_n.jpg]

But this weekend I played to a wedding crowd of 300+ people with this and there was certainly no shortage of volume or weight of sound.

[attachment=195739:Rig.jpg]

For really big gigs or outdoor events I have a second matching cab and I'd say that those two together are louder than the top rig by some margin which I guess is attributed to a combination of driver development, good cab design and amp development.

Is there any other instrument that is using tech this way? I know the music production world has also changed beyond all recognition but I'm thinking more about instruments. It certainly seems (to me - and I'm happy to be corrected) like guitarists are reluctant to embrace this kind of change - particularly the pub / small venue amateur players. Are there equivalent companies to Barefaced, Bergantino, Aguilar etc that are pushing boundaries in other musical fields?

Interested to hear your thoughts.

[4-string-thing]

I think guitarists have always been more traditional.... A Strat or Les Paul into a valve amp via a couple of pedals is pretty much as far as they go. Bass players have always seemed to embrace technology and more radical design ideas, in my opinion.

[Beer of the Bass]

I guess keys are the obvious example, with things like the Nord Electro. A friend's band use one, and I really can't tell by ear which of their recordings were done with the Nord or with the studio's Hammond and Leslie.

[chris_b]

Most guitarists I play with are stuck in 1957 and slightly later, 1968, for the predals.

Nearly all the keyboard players I know are switching to Nord's.

The drummers are a mixture. I played with a guy who has a modern custom "coffe table" drum kit. Sounded pretty good. Some of them are using double bass drum pedals but mostly the kits are pretty conventional. I played with one drummer who had a fantastic kit. 3 hi-hats, full drum and cymbal compliiment and pink sparkle. Brilliant drummer and a great sound.

But it's the bass players who are moving ahead with the quality of their sound and the technology of their gear. Well mostly. There are still a lot who are equally stuck in the 60's, which isn't always a bad thing, if you can lift the gear.

[Chienmortbb]

As Lord Claber is doing a guitar cab soon we may well see a change.

However seeing Pete Townsend using a mass of Fender combos at Glastonbury makes me wonder what is between the ears of some guitarists.

[discreet]

Guitar amps have always been relatively small, if not exactly light. Not a lot has changed there as guitarists still like to use valve amps. I suppose if you're a drummer who gets on with an electric kit then that makes life easier. PA systems have definitely got a lot smaller over the last twenty years and keyboards have definitely shrunk to ironing-board size, so no need to haul a Steinway or a Hammond C3 or (God forbid) a Mellotron.

My own journey has been one of trying to find the sound I got from an Ampeg rig back in the day but without the bulk and mass. My efforts so far have led to this 21012L, a Streamliner (now replaced with G-K MB500 Fusion) and a Zoom B1on... unbelievable heft and room-filling capability from a 2-foot-square rig.

Edited July 6, 2015 by discreet

[mrtcat]

Struggling to see anything beyond that Hayman Mark. That's bloody lovely.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1436175076' post='2815509']
As Lord Claber is doing a guitar cab soon we may well see a change.
[/quote]
Looking forward to seeing this very much.

[landwomble]

Amazing, isn't it. I had a few years off and I came back from having a car full of kit and a bad back to a rig I can carry one handed!

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1436175745' post='2815517']
Struggling to see anything beyond that Hayman Mark. That's bloody lovely.
[/quote]

Indeed, I'm still vaguely annoyed that I missed out on one of these as my first bass. I saw it in a secondhand shop, sorted out the money that evening and went back the next day to find it was their day off, and in my teenage impatience I went somewhere else instead. I should have held out for the Hayman! It was a silvery grey colour and still had its perspex ashtrays...

[tauzero]

The ZT Lunchbox is an example of shrinking guitar amps.

[chris_b]

I'm not sure this is going to work for Alex. Most guitarists I've played with and seen in the last 30 years have used Fender combo's. A couple have used Mashall or Mesa half stacks, but IME the valve combo by Fender is the one that gets used on most gigs.

I can't see guitarists buying a cab, then trying to work out what amp to buy to go with it.

[BigRedX]

Keyboards have been ironing-board sized since the early 80s.

Electronic drum kits have come on a lot in the last 10 years, but unless the whole band uses IEMs the amount of extra amplification you need to make them work on stage pretty much negates the savings in size a weight, and IME they seem to take just as long to set up as a traditional kit.

Edited July 6, 2015 by BigRedX

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1436179106' post='2815557']
Keyboards have been ironing-board sized since the early 80s.
[/quote]

That is true, but they couldn't convincingly replicate a Steinway or a Hammond at that time.

[PaulWarning]

I'm not sure about bass players totally embracing new technology when a lot, if not most, (but not all) of us still prefer a Fender P bass, but yeah I've just dumped my heavy weight Marshall combo for a Fender Rumble

[discreet]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1436179848' post='2815570']
I'm not sure about bass players totally embracing new technology when a lot, if not most, (but not all) of us still prefer a Fender P bass.
[/quote]

Hey, there's no point in development for it's own sake when that technology has reached its logical limit!

Edited July 6, 2015 by discreet

[discreet]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1436178737' post='2815549']
I can't see guitarists buying a cab, then trying to work out what amp to buy to go with it.
[/quote]

Quite - that is totally beyond their mental capabilities.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Bass rigs.. If this includes effects,then I would think that more bass players use them now than ever before. They may not weigh much , but it is an addition to a rig

[BigRedX]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436179622' post='2815565']
That is true, but they couldn't convincingly replicate a Steinway or a Hammond at that time.
[/quote]

TBH I'm still not convinced that an electronic keyboard can accurately replicate a Steinway yet.

And IME at least 75% of the sound of a Hammond is being able to play in a way that works with it's limitations as a keyboard - essentially one sound with no sustain. and only two fixed vibrato speeds. You have to have spent some time playing a real one to be able to make a replicated one sound the same and an expert Hammond player with a well programmed DX7 will sound more authentic than a piano player with a modern replica.

Also in many ways a synth is a far more useful instrument for the average keyboard player to use in a typical rock ensemble since it has a lot more opportunity to be adjusted in such a way that its sounds don't tread in the other instruments sonic spaces.

[CamdenRob]

I have a Mesa Mini Rectifier for my guitar outings... It's great, all valve, 5.5kg, 25 watts and so earth shatteringly loud the master has never been over half way.

Lighter weight guitar gear is available it just doesn't seem to be very popular for some reason. My Mesa 1x12s weight almost the same as my lightweight bass cabs and are smaller so even easier to manoeuvre.

To me it made sense to go for the lightest smallest rig that could do the gig for my guitar setup... then again I came at it from a background as a bass player so maybe I expect portability from my gear that long time guitarists do not.

Edited July 6, 2015 by CamdenRob

[uncle psychosis]

Guitarists are beginning to embrace modern technology more, things like the AxeFX, the new Line6 Helix, other modellers, and even older technology like PODs got/are getting a lot of attention and use. I suspect the reason that bass players are more eager to embrace new amp technology (not instruments: the P and the J are still, by far, the worlds most popular basses) is because of the ludicrous size and weight of traditional bass amps. I suspect that if an Ampeg Stack had the same tone but was the same size and weight as a Fender guitar combo then bass players would not be so keen to try something new!

[discreet]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1436188631' post='2815705']
...I suspect that if an Ampeg Stack had the same tone but was the same size and weight as a Fender guitar combo then bass players would not be so keen to try something new!
[/quote]

Well... you wouldn't need to, would you..?

[mrtcat]

This is interesting. It seems that the biggest hurdle in guitar world is the guitarists themselves. But then I guess that is the same when innovating in any area - letting the customers realise that change is good no matter how easy or difficult is the key to gaining momentum in developing ever smaller / lighter / louder / etc gear. At some point bass players saw the light and not surprisingly as we generally appreciate far more innovation in our instruments (wood type, designs, electronics etc) where guitarists like les pauls and strats. I know a guitarist who has 2 4x12 marshall cabs that he's altered internally so each is actually just running 1 12inch driver because he wanted the look but not the volume. That's crazy to me as the biggest advantage of modern bass gear is the practical size and weight.

That said maybe its a good thing. Imagine a world where guitar drivers were being developed to make them even louder

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1436189417' post='2815718']
At some point bass players saw the light and not surprisingly as we generally appreciate far more innovation in our instruments (wood type, designs, electronics etc) where guitarists like les pauls and strats.
[/quote] Did we? I reckon at gigs I see more P and J basses than I do Les Pauls and Strats. I'm not sure I buy this "bass players are more innovative" line when it comes to instruments. For amps, sure, but not instruments.