Weststarx Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes you read that correctly! In my band we have me on bass (obviously) a lead guitarist and rhythm guitarist. Now me and the lead guitarist understand that you have to turn up to the volume of the drums because obviously with an acoustic drum kit you cant excatly turn them down... Mr Rhythm will often complain how loud it is and then straight away turn his amp down so we basically then become a three piece. When ever I try to get him to turn up he'll just pretend to because I watch him twiddle with the volume knob a few times and return it to the position it orginally was. Id understand this if we were loud but my 300watt bass amp is only ever at number 1!!!! He recently brought a long lead so he could check the sound with me (which yes is annoying) but I thought it was a great opportunity to show him how crap we sounded because of how quiet he is, but its just met with a shake of the head followed by ''it sounds alright to me..'' So this has become extremely fustrating because we may as well not have him and just have more space a gigs, and the odd solo he plays, he doesnt boost is lead volume so it sits as quietly as the rhythm does and it sometimes has been down right embarrassing to watch... I stand next to him in front of his amp and I cant hear him so he must not be able to hear himself either. Without being a ninja and turning up his amp myself how do I go about it? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 We used to have a rhythm/slide guitarist who was like that, basically he was a poor payer and tried to hide behind the rest of us. Eventually asked him to leave as he was taking up stage room and a share of the takings to which he was not really entitled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badass Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Never heard one yet that was too quiet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Sounds like he has confidence issues. If he thinks everything is too loud he needs ear plugs. More likely though is the confidence. At rehearsal get the lead guitarist and vocals to drop out leaving just you rhythm boys and get everyone to listen to it. Try to get him in balance. At the end of the day though if he can't cut the mustard he's dead weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Try getting your drum not to play as loud and all come down a bit. Maybe he's right. More often than not, in my opinion, bands are too loud! Edited November 24, 2014 by Lord Sausage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Another thought: you know how we always end up having conversations on here about tone, and the usual conclusion is "see how it sounds in a band setting"? I do wonder how often guitarists have that kind of conversation, or whether they draw any distinction between "sounds good in my room" and "sounds good with the rest of the band." This is especially important in a two-guitar setup, where they'll be fighting for similar space in the mix. Maybe your lead guitarist should try cutting his low frequencies, and rhythm guy can try and find a slightly warmer tone that can sit just above your bass but not get in lead guy's way. Obviously I'm just making the vaguest suggestions with no idea of your various tone preferences, but a little judicious EQing might clear up the overall sound so that it doesn't "feel" quite as loud. And, as Lord Sausage suggests: [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1416823590' post='2613824'] Try getting your drum not to play as loud and all come down a bit. Maybe he's right. More often than not, in my opinion, bands are too loud! [/quote] ...find the volume knob on your drummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Is your drummer too loud? Maybe the guitarist is making a stand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1416824956' post='2613838'] Another thought: you know how we always end up having conversations on here about tone, and the usual conclusion is "see how it sounds in a band setting"? I do wonder how often guitarists have that kind of conversation, or whether they draw any distinction between "sounds good in my room" and "sounds good with the rest of the band." This is especially important in a two-guitar setup, where they'll be fighting for similar space in the mix. Maybe your lead guitarist should try cutting his low frequencies, and rhythm guy can try and find a slightly warmer tone that can sit just above your bass but not get in lead guy's way. Obviously I'm just making the vaguest suggestions with no idea of your various tone preferences, but a little judicious EQing might clear up the overall sound so that it doesn't "feel" quite as loud. [/quote] That is the main problem with guitarists eq. I just go over the their amps and turn the bass and volume down and mids up, mid gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Just send him down the road, thank him but let him know he lacks stage confidence too much to perform live. Depending on what kind of band, if you are "background music" fair enough, but I generally find if people can stand near the stage and gab to each other all gig, the band gets ignored, get to a volume where gabbing is hard to do,(like big ticket gigs) they start to pay attention to the band. Gabbing whilst musicians perform is something that has crept in with low morals, same people gab at films, they are just rude and disrespectful. Go to another pub and gab. But if you feel the guy is making the band weak by refusing to perform at stage level, you might be better just letting him go with a flea in his ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Probably has confidence issues - why not forget the drums for five minutes and give an acoustic and play along with him quietly to see if it's that ? You can't hide with an acoustic I had exactly this reaction on my first open mic night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1416823127' post='2613814'] We used to have a rhythm/slide guitarist who was like that, basically he was a poor payer and tried to hide behind the rest of us. Eventually asked him to leave as he was taking up stage room and a share of the takings to which he was not really entitled. [/quote] [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1416823374' post='2613819'] Sounds like he has confidence issues. If he thinks everything is too loud he needs ear plugs. More likely though is the confidence. At rehearsal get the lead guitarist and vocals to drop out leaving just you rhythm boys and get everyone to listen to it. Try to get him in balance. At the end of the day though if he can't cut the mustard he's dead weight [/quote] [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1416825097' post='2613840'] Is your drummer too loud? Maybe the guitarist is making a stand... [/quote] All of these might be the possible situation, our drummer's snare drum is a bit over whelming somtimes and there has been instances where Mr Rhythmn has spoken to him about it so maybe its worth backing him up next time about the snare and see if that has an effect on his/our volume. He isnt the most confident of players either, he's usually the one apologising about playing crap... eventhough we cant hear him anyway Trouble is I dont want to come across like Mr Bossy Boots telling everyone this is too loud and this is too quiet, but I want us to sound the best we possibly can! [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1416826137' post='2613857'] Probably has confidence issues - why not forget the drums for five minutes and give an acoustic and play along with him quietly to see if it's that ? You can't hide with an acoustic I had exactly this reaction on my first open mic night [/quote] And I think you've just hit the nail on the head because I brought up the open mic nights idea but he was the first one to shoot me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [i]Good [/i]drummers [i]can [/i]play less loud; don't let anyone tell you differently. Next rehearsal, all turn down to the 'soft' guitarist's level, and see how it sounds/feels. If he's not playing well enough, you'll know. One never needs to practice loudly, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1416822696' post='2613810'] ...we may as well not have him and just have more space at gigs... [/quote] And there you have it. There's something magic about bass/drums/guitar and in my experience it's [i]always [/i]preferable to having rhythm or keys. Especially keys... grr. Enjoy the space. If everyone's creative and on top of their game there's nothing better than a three-piece. Or a three-piece plus vocals. Edited November 24, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Why not record a gig then play it back to him and ask what he's actually playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1416822696' post='2613810'] ....Now me and the lead guitarist understand that you have to turn up to the volume of the drums because obviously with an acoustic drum kit you cant excatly turn them down... [/quote] Yes you can. Drummers can play loudly or quietly. It's called drumming. If you have one that can't adjust his volume then I suggest you get a better drummer who can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1416827639' post='2613887'] If you have one that can't adjust his volume then I suggest you get a better drummer who can. [/quote] I take your point, but finding a good drummer is easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Galbraith Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hardcore earplugs for rhythm guitarist ? As well as the above drumming suggestions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Stick him through the PA? He can have his amp as quiet as he wants and you can control the FOH mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Slap bass him and tell him to stop being a little bitch That or route his amp into thePA as some one else said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) [quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1416835504' post='2614011'] Slap bass him and tell him to stop being a little bitch. [/quote] I love Basschat for its sensible advice and practical solutions to people's problems. Edited November 24, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1416835504' post='2614011'] Slap bass him and tell him to stop being a little bitch [/quote] I can well and truely say I just laughed out loud then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgie Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I often think bands play too loud.I agree about the drummer as well. Of course they should be able to play at lower volumes. sounds like a drummers excuse......"I have no volume conrol on my stick/drums" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 At the first ever gig I did when I was 15 the rhythm guitarist was 'too' quiet. For him anyway - the lead guitarist unplugged his amp just before we started. He didn't do a second gig with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1416835863' post='2614024'] I love Basschat for its sensible advice and practical solutions to people's problems. [/quote] AND the [i]sensitivity [/i]of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1416826544' post='2613865'] All of these might be the possible situation, our drummer's snare drum is a bit over whelming somtimes and there has been instances where Mr Rhythmn has spoken to him about it so maybe its worth backing him up next time about the snare and see if that has an effect on his/our volume. He isnt the most confident of players either, he's usually the one apologising about playing crap... eventhough we cant hear him anyway Trouble is I dont want to come across like Mr Bossy Boots telling everyone this is too loud and this is too quiet, but I want us to sound the best we possibly can! And I think you've just hit the nail on the head because I brought up the open mic nights idea but he was the first one to shoot me down. [/quote] All I meant was that he could have a bit more freedom and not be swamped, not least as the drummer wouldnt be there, or would be using bongo or bodhran or somesuch. Having done one open mic night, and utterly screwed it up due to nerves, I'm now feeling more pumped, not less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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