peteb Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406656753' post='2513495'] Well on the evidence of that, the only time the riff has any real clarity is when the guitars do the same thing an octave higher To my ears the low D has been reduced to a rhythmic clank rather than a proper note. [/quote] The point is to play that part correctly you need the open drop D. You may have played that part differently if you had been on the original session, but then again you aren't a multi-platinum selling artist! Thanks to Juliet for posting the video - I have just been asked to do a dep on Saturday and this is one of the tunes that I will have to dust off, so very timely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1406658498' post='2513521'] The point is to play that part correctly you need the open drop D. You may have played that part differently if you had been on the original session, but then again you aren't a multi-platinum selling artist! [/quote] No, as has been proved earlier in this thread it is perfectly possible (if a bit harder) to play it on a conventionally tuned 5-string bass. From my PoV if I was going to play a bass line like this that required a low D and it was too complex to play without using the open string I'd want an instrument strung with something more substantial than a standard E string detuned a tone. To my ears the open D in that example is so undefined as a note that any percussive bass sound could replace it. I only becomes defined because we've already heard the note in the octave higher guitar part, so the brain fills it in. What bothers me most about this, is that there appears to be a weird unwritten rule that states the bass should automatically match whatever tuning the guitarist is using, when a lot of the time there is no real need and often the fact that the two instruments can't easily double the parts could actually lead to some more interesting harmonic ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) ooooeeeerrrrrr! What have I started here? There's more to this than I thought! I just wondered if anyone else had had that sudden realisation, the rush of blood to the head and the panic that followed. There's more to this than I imagined. I'll get me coat. Edited July 29, 2014 by FlatEric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkgod Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) tip of the day..... Never take a laxative and sleeping pill at the same time. DRILL a one inch diameter hole in your refrigerator door.... This will allow you to check that the light goes off when the door is closed Edited July 29, 2014 by funkgod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406659411' post='2513536'] What bothers me most about this, is that there appears to be a weird unwritten rule that states the bass should automatically match whatever tuning the guitarist is using, when a lot of the time there is no real need and often the fact that the two instruments can't easily double the parts could actually lead to some more interesting harmonic ideas. [/quote] I kinda get what you mean there, to play Sweet Child o Mine I just downtune my E and leave the rest in standard tuning, both guitarists whinge at me cos they cant get their head around my only retuning 1 string. Every time they look at my hands for visual cues they get confused. precious little darling's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1406530465' post='2512077'] how long does it take to tune one string? [/quote] no time at all with a Hipshot Bass X-tender I regularly have to switch between D and E and a Hipshot thingy is just tremendously useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I use drop-D tuning on double bass in just one song and it's a pain in the bum as the A-string always needs a tweak at the same time. I have creaky old wooden hatpeg tuners too, just to make re-tuning more fun. I don't do it to match the guitarist, but because a bowed low-D pedal note sounds good in that one song. If the guitarist messes with the order of the set list it can get really irritating! Some day I'll get a C-extension fitted, but they're not cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The misery stick is a whole new ball game, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1406659411' post='2513536'] No, as has been proved earlier in this thread it is perfectly possible (if a bit harder) to play it on a conventionally tuned 5-string bass. From my PoV if I was going to play a bass line like this that required a low D and it was too complex to play without using the open string I'd want an instrument strung with something more substantial than a standard E string detuned a tone. To my ears the open D in that example is so undefined as a note that any percussive bass sound could replace it. I only becomes defined because we've already heard the note in the octave higher guitar part, so the brain fills it in. What bothers me most about this, is that there appears to be a weird unwritten rule that states the bass should automatically match whatever tuning the guitarist is using, when a lot of the time there is no real need and often the fact that the two instruments can't easily double the parts could actually lead to some more interesting harmonic ideas. [/quote] No, a few people have said 'oh yes, I could play it on a 5 string' but I have yet to see anyone do so convincingly. The whole point of the arrangement is the contrast between the half time feel on the the chorus and intro and the main riff that kicks in and motors along. They may be able to play the notes but they will struggle to nail the feel of the song, what with the fingering stretches required and the slightly awkward dampening. And why should they when they could simple detune the E string by a step? There is no rule to say that the bass has to double the guitar, but equally there is no reason why it shouldn't if the song requires it. This particular song is written around a reasonably fast open string riff and it makes sense for the bass to fill out the bottom end by rumbling on below the guitars playing the riff an octave lower... Edited July 29, 2014 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r16ktx Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1406536024' post='2512122'] I've got a five string too. Try playing Velvet Revolver's Slither on a five string [/quote] Easy - capo on the 3rd fret :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The damping is easy if you play the F on the D string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1406703284' post='2513810'] The damping is easy if you play the F on the D string. [/quote] of course there are ways around it but... it's sooo easy to detune the E string and sooo easy to play that riff and similar others using a pedal low D note... I've been playing my 5-string Lakland more recently, and soem things I'd normally detune the E string for can be played standard on the 5er, no doubt... but some are just awkward and/or just don't sound "right" when not using the open string. So I'd use a 5er standard if I had to, but given any opportunity, I'd even detune the E on the 5er for those songs. Call me lazy but I think i... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I was just about to say that Jose, there is nothing stopping you dropping the e to a D on a fiver so there is no reason why it can't be played convincingly on a fiver at all. Maybe there are two schools of thought clashing here? Some people are looking for an exact duplicate of the record (peteb) myself I'm thinking of a covers band context where the other variables like not having slash in your band,a different singer, drummer, equipment etc etc etc etc are going to be a thousand times more noticeable that my fretted or open D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) I know some pretty competent players who play that tune (and others) on a 5 string by detuning the E string. Obviously you can play it on a 5 string that way... Edited July 30, 2014 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Ha. LOL. Isn't it funny how topics wander? I just wondered if anyone had experienced that "embarrassing moment" and as someone else said earlier, "threw daggers at the guitarist", only to realise it hadn't been pulled back up to E. That said, some entertaining posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Regardless of whether Slither can be played using open strings or not, I think there is another important point that hasn't been mentioned. A couple of posts have mentioned panicking at having to play a song in a slightly different tuning than you've practiced, or being out of tune and not being able to hear it. If you can't hear that you are a semi tone or tone out or you are so stuck in a pattern that you struggle to get out of it, you need to spend time in the practice room working on your ear training and fingerboard knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) - Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1406736141' post='2514232']...Unlike playing a tone or two out, of course...[/quote] ... which would be jazz. [size=4] [/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) - Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1406743973' post='2514350'] ... which would be jazz. [size=4] [/size] [size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size] [/quote] No it wouldn't....it would still be crap..lol..... However, playing a tone or two or three out.... Now that would be Jazz, or even a bit Homer Simpson. Sorry I can be a bit Try(tone)ing at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) In a couple songs I use my Bass xtender mid song (pedal riffs, chords etc based in D and in E) Personally love the growl of a regular E tuned down to D! That said I like my E string as a .110 on 34" and .105 on 35" I do agree it's not always needed to match the guitars tuning, case in point, my gig tonight, one song in Drop D I play in B standard (though I did tune the E down to D for some fun stuff at the end haha!) as the bass part can all be played in standard tuning very easily. On the other hand, guys like Jon Stockman of Karivool sort of match guitar tunings to allow them to do stuff not possible in standard tuning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUmARJ0o6Hw For example, has to be in drop B (He plays a six string in Drop B with an extra high string and the top string tuned to C I believe, met the guys a few time as my cousin went to school with them in 'straya) as the harmonics as natural and harmonic chord figures aren't possible in B standard. I've covered this live in standard tuning (once just playing the notes not as harmonics) and once doing all the harmonics as artificial harmonics, but it just didn't sound great and then you can't do the chordal parts anyway. First example that came to mind but there are more (many of them Karnivool haha!) Edited August 18, 2014 by icastle Link Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I need to get an xtender on my Jazz. I miss it when it's not there, I got used to having an xtender on my Washburn. I used to flick it up and down mid song, great fun having that low D at your disposal. Favourite place to use it was in Cochise by Audioslave, the two notes leading into the chorus are D and D#, so I would flick down for those to, then flick back up while reaching for the 2nd fret on the D string to play the E to start the chorus riff. I doubt anyone ever noticed (apart from the drummer because I made a point of pointing it out to him!) but I always thought it was cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) [quote name='FlatEric' timestamp='1406530129' post='2512074'] Tip of the day! Never wander off the set list, when you have tuned to Drop D, for the number you have just done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Panic and a lot of quick thinking. . . . . . . even that didn't really rescue me! Anyone else confess to this? [/quote]Get yourself a Hipshot. Flick. Done. Just been looking at a video from 89 pre Hipshot on the Wal & I noticed that at the end of one song where I wanted to run down to D in the final part of the song I just retuned as we went and pretty much hit it spot on ... well certainly spot on enough for live. Quite chuffed looking back at it (I am currently in major nostalgia '5H1T we were tight ...' sigh where did it all go wrong mode) EDIT: of course I have already been beaten to the D-tuner option/hint Edited August 11, 2014 by WalMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.