Barefaced Cabs - Retro six10 and Retro Two2

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399754309' post='2447404']
Well, drifting off-topic, I liked playing through your BB2/Gen 2 Compact combination at the gig last night! It seems like the BB2 is really clear and even in the upper mids/treble region - it's all there without giving the impression of having gaps or peaks in the response. Also, with just a small tweak of the Markbass VLE knob, I was happy with the sound of my fuzz, which is rare for a tweetered cab. Although I don't know how you had the attenuator set - maybe it was switched off?
[/quote]

The tweeter attenuator was set about half way... To be honest, it could probably be set at minimum and it would still not sound harsh at all. I am a bit of a tweeter-sceptic, but this one seems very smooth.
It was a bit overkill last night as it was only needed as a stage monitor, but I like how it sounds and I'm trying to give it enough use so that it breaks in. I carried both back to my car one on each hand without it being awkward. I like that too.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1399629288' post='2445968']
If you run your Ferrari regularly to the red line, it's not going to last as long as what it would if you keep it below the red line.
[/quote]

Any decently design amp will probably last many times longer driving its minimum impedance than most owners will ever subject them to so I can pretty much guarantee that being "gentle on amps" is not the engineering reason for designing a non standard impedance cab. The whole point of having standard impedance values is so that amp builders and cab builders can both design their respective components to work to their maximum potential together and in order to do that they both have to assume that the other can do their job properly when running right up to spec. Its no different to say computer components - intel make a chip that runs at x gigahertz and mainboard builders make boards that run the chip at that speed, it would be pointless and confusing for either side to start second guessing the amount of engineering headroom that the other component requires to run reliably.

Edited May 11, 2014 by bassman7755

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399671629' post='2446650']
It is just a question of balance. If you were pretty new to the site and you read a few threads you might get the impression that
they were the only cab to have.
[/quote]

You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research.

Edited May 11, 2014 by bassman7755

[discreet]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542']
You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research.
[/quote]

Great post! Yours truly, happy firewood lover.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399769426' post='2447536']
Any decently design amp will probably last many times longer driving its minimum impedance than most owners will ever subject them to so I can pretty much guarantee that being "gentle on amps" is not the engineering reason for designing a non standard impedance cab. The whole point of having standard impedance values is so that amp builders and cab builders can both design their respective components to work to their maximum potential together and in order to do that they both have to assume that the other can do their job properly when running right up to spec. Its no different to say computer components - intel make a chip that runs at x gigahertz and mainboard builders make boards that run the chip at that speed, it would be pointless and confusing for either side to start second guessing the amount of engineering headroom that the other component requires to run reliably.
[/quote]

I didn't say it was the design reason. I merely said one of the benefits of running 2 12 ohm cabs is that there's less heat going through the components.
The Xbox 360 is a good example of heat causing failure.
Not once have I said you shouldn't run your amp to the minimum ohms, just that doing so increases the heat.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542']
You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research.
[/quote]
+1

Couldn't agree more.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542']


You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research.
[/quote]

You have vastly exceeded your 'sense quota'. You are therefore expelled from this thread.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399642280' post='2446216']
...And vice-versa. I'm not an offended owner - I just don't get why this always happens with Barefaced products. When someone posts a NCD or other thread about Bergantino or Aguilar cabs you don't get this, do you? Why not?
[/quote] it is odd. I wonder if Alex had paid some big pro to use his cabs a while back and launched with loads of PR and the pro bigging it up all of us in internet land would be more taken in with the PR and endorsements and folk who dislike would feel the need to go on about it so much. Like to pick another UK builder... if I didn't like ACG or Overwater or someone I doubt I would feel a need to go on lots of forum posts and say how bad they are....


mind you I don't know for certain what i think of ACG or overwater so if someone wants to give me a nice Overwater jazz, theGreek's ACG I'll be happy give an option. And if someone doesn't like their Barefaced either and it needs a new home big baby two pref!

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399770361' post='2447542']
You could say the same about fender basses (which I personally consider to be expensive firewood). Should I be diving into every thread on them and making my views known in the interests of "balance" ? - no, it would merely antagonise happy fender owners, and at the end of the day its down to people to do their own research.
[/quote]

Big BIG difference though. Fender are an iconic brand ..been going for years and sold zillions.
To many they are an industry standard even though I agree most of the cheaper range aren't where you'd
go..or I wouldn't.

The other company has a few years existance with no real grounding and sells direct ..with the main protagomists being BC cheerleaders...??
Noone else knows they exist and the industry at retail level ignores them..either because to 'shop' them would make them
too expensive with the shop mark-up or make the direct sell price too low to be worthwhile to the maker..
And that is before you consider whether the shops will take them. I know two pretty high level specialist shops that
don't like them and neither do their customers..
All of this is just point scoring but the real point is that the product is hugely hyped here and my point was that the negative
opinions also need to come across so as new people don't think the product is universally endorsed, because it certainly isn't.
There are probably as many people on this site who don't have a good opinion of them as there are people who seem to push them
as much as possible, but the ante's mostly tend not to post. The reason being because it all turns out like this...?
I can certainly say my opinions are mild compared to some...and I know this becase they have told me it is just that every now again, I'll have an opnion and experience and post it. I am not much concerned about how popular that makes me here or not...you may have noticed
For good or bad. I just tend to say what I think.
It is all opinions at the end of the day and this site would be nothing, IMV, if we didn't have them or post them

Edited May 11, 2014 by JTUK

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1399794617' post='2447603']
I didn't say it was the design reason.
[/quote]

Fair enough.

[quote]
I merely said one of the benefits of running 2 12 ohm cabs is that there's less heat going through the components.
The Xbox 360 is a good example of heat causing failure.
Not once have I said you shouldn't run your amp to the minimum ohms, just that doing so increases the heat.
[/quote]

Well the point I'm trying to make (possibly badly) is that if the amp is properly designed then the theoretical extra thermal degradation wont be of any practical consequence to the vast majority of users - they are simply sacrificing power output and getting nothing tangible in return. You also have to bear in mind that bass amps are reaping the advances in amp design which is mostly driven by the PA market where its common place to thrash the amps at rated minimum loads at or near maximum power for thousands of hours - most bass amps don't see anywhere near that level of abuse.

Edited May 11, 2014 by bassman7755

[Beer of the Bass]

I'd point out that for all the talk of the "antis" being afraid to post, Alex C. has been answering questions about these cabs over on Talkbass but is yet to pop his head up over here. I know he's a busy guy, but you have to wonder if the inevitable multi-page barney that happens on every Barefaced thread on basschat makes it less than inviting!

[discreet]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399807701' post='2447813']
I'd point out that for all the talk of the "antis" being afraid to post, Alex C. has been answering questions about these cabs over on Talkbass but is yet to pop his head up over here. I know he's a busy guy, but you have to wonder if the inevitable multi-page barney that happens on every Barefaced thread on basschat makes it less than inviting!
[/quote]

Quite - I'd keep right out of it, myself (if I were him). A waste of time. And as I think I've already mentioned, the fact that Alex is a busy guy is mainly due to the success of his business (which is down to his hard work and that of his colleagues) - they are working long hours just to keep supply somewhere close to the huge demand for the product - a fact that seems to drive some Basschatters crazy, for some strange reason. I wish I knew why!

Edited May 11, 2014 by discreet

[xgsjx]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1399807500' post='2447810']
Well the point I'm trying to make (possibly badly) is that if the amp is properly designed then the theoretical extra thermal degradation wont be of any practical consequence to the vast majority of users - they are simply sacrificing power output and getting nothing tangible in return. You also have to bear in mind that bass amps are reaping the advances in amp design which is mostly driven by the PA market where its common place to thrash the amps at rated minimum loads at or near maximum power for thousands of hours - most bass amps don't see anywhere near that level of abuse.
[/quote]

There's plenty of folk who have no trouble, but there's also a fair few who do have failures due to overheating.
Look at the Ashdown Superfly or the Ampeg PF500 for 2 prime examples of amps not properly designed to deal with the extra heat.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399807701' post='2447813']
I'd point out that for all the talk of the "antis" being afraid to post, Alex C. has been answering questions about these cabs over on Talkbass but is yet to pop his head up over here. I know he's a busy guy, but you have to wonder if the inevitable multi-page barney that happens on every Barefaced thread on basschat makes it less than inviting!
[/quote] it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't post much on here at all anymore- it's not worth his while. In the same way Bill F stopped posting on Talkbass. I don't get the hate people have for builders/makers - like what's the point?

If it's really of no interest to you don't post an opinion, you'll find no posts from me in the DB sections of the site as I don't play,
If you don't like... try and see why people might like them and just enjoy the fact that different folk have different needs. For example I'm not massively keen on the compression I hear on the TC RH450 - Ild probably never buy one - but I can see that if you like the sound then it's possibly an 'ultimate' bass amp for you. (and I'ld try a RH750 or whatever then next one is to see if I like it) - life seems too short for the hate, or the knocking of our local UK based businesses.

[dannybuoy]

Here's the TB thread folks: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/barefaced-69er-thread.823993/page-9

[PauBass]

No surprise Alex is not posting here, It must be very tiring and boring hearing the same old, same old...On the other hand, I have been following threads on TalkBass about his cabs and I have yet to see what happens in here every time someone starts a Barefaced thread.

It has been said so many times, if you don't like something, no need to go on about it, let other people be happy with their choice and move on...You don't see these situations with any other product.

In my experience, I tried/tested a few of the Barefaced cabs, none of my band mates had heard about the brand, likewise they hadn't even heard about Bergantino, they were pleasantly surprised and they all loved the cabs...some of the cabs more than others, hence the different cab range.

Edited May 11, 2014 by PauBass

[discreet]

[quote]
I don't get the hate people have for builders/makers - like what's the point?
[/quote]
[quote]
...if you don't like something, no need to go on about it, let other people be happy with their choice and move on...
[/quote]

But some posters get almost angry... you may not like certain commercial cabs like Ampeg or Ashdown or even Berg etc for whatever reason, but it never gets personal. It's just people's opinions. There isn't that particularly weird mix of resentment and derision which seems to be reserved exclusively for Alex and barefaced.

I still don't understand why - is it obvious? What am I missing?

[JTUK]

Sure... but I said I posted more as a balance to countless threads ( namely NCD's etc etc and same are even on the same cabs at the same time ) on here and possibly
to counter an impression that they were universally well regarded.
I don't start the threads, I just post a counter opinion..but it seems some would rather I don't have one...or certainly dare not post one.
I would suggest you would rather read mine, than many others

[PauBass]

Well, I have owned many cabs in the past, different Bergantino's, Aguilar, Hartke, Ampeg, EBS, Ashdown, Fender....
I guess I'm not right and I don't have enough experience to say my Barefaced Super Twin it's an amazing cab.

[discreet]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399835780' post='2448202']
I would suggest you would rather read mine, than many others
[size=4][/quote][/size]
It's not your posts I'm thinking about in particular. At least you have had experience of the product and didn't like it, that's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling of resentment somehow that Alex is succeeding where perhaps others haven't? I really don't know - I'm guessing. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it! First world stuff, anyway.

Edited May 11, 2014 by discreet

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399835780' post='2448202']
Sure... but I said I posted more as a balance to countless threads ( namely NCD's etc etc and same are even on the same cabs at the same time ) on here and possibly
to counter an impression that they were universally well regarded.
I don't start the threads, I just post a counter opinion..but it seems some would rather I don't have one...or certainly dare not post one.
I would suggest you would rather read mine, than many others
[/quote]

Thank god you are here to save us all and everyone else from the tyranny.

Count me out this thread.

[skychaserhigh]

I would just like to say that although I have never bought a Barefaced cab and I may not do in the future either , I respect Alex for what he has done so far and continues to do with updates and new products etc.
It's a shame Alex feels he doesn't want to contribute to threads on here because of all the reasons already stated because he always comes across as a well imformed and very helpful guy. In the past I have emailed him about his cabs and he was always very helpful with his replies.
Whether people like his cabs or not we should be giving support to a British designer and builder instead of bashing him down.
So come on Alex , come and join in , we won't bite......honest !!

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399836528' post='2448213']
It's not your posts I'm thinking about in particular. At least you have had experience of the product and didn't like it, that's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling of resentment somehow that Alex is succeeding where perhaps others haven't? I really don't know - I'm guessing. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it! First world stuff, anyway.
[/quote]

I believe this thread covers most of it... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/224563-barefaced-nows-your-chance/page__hl__barefaced"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/224563-barefaced-nows-your-chance/page__hl__barefaced[/url]

[Conan]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1399841593' post='2448307']
So come on Alex , come and join in , we won't bite......honest !!
[/quote]

To be fair, I have found Alex's contributions to threads like this to be extremely balanced and helpful. He even gives the "fanboys" a bit of a hard time on occasion - especially when they make incorrect or hyperbolic claims...

It doesn't bother me at all when people say they dislike BF cabs. Horses for courses. Every cab from every manufacturer offers a solution to a problem. All of those "solutions" involve compromises. For some of us, the compromises work, for others they don't - so they try (and ultimately buy) something else.

It really isn't that much of a problem.

[discreet]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399881725' post='2448480']
I believe this thread covers most of it... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/224563-barefaced-nows-your-chance/page__hl__barefaced"]http://basschat.co.u...__hl__barefaced[/url]
[/quote]

I saw that poll - it's interesting. Still no clue as to why the vitriol, though. I think karlfer sums it up:

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1387228347' post='2309699']
I know my back and temper both enjoy my S12V.
If you don't like the look, sound, don't get one. Why the need for your tuppence worth? Vote, move on.
If you don't like the look, don't get one.
If you have never USED ONE YOURSELF, don't criticise.
Some folk on here would cause a battle in a nunnery.
[/quote]

Also a post suggesting that for balance, a similar poll should be held for ALL currently available brands of bass cab.
Not sure if that would help much - it's [i]still [/i]wouldn't explain the irrational BF hate - IMO.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399881975' post='2448483']
It really isn't that much of a problem.
[/quote]

It certainly shouldn't be!
I'd like to agree and leave it right there, but you can't ignore the evidence to the contrary!

Edited May 12, 2014 by discreet