What size speakers do you prefer?

[JTUK]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1399738941' post='2447204']
I'm fortunate enough to have a 4x10 and a 1x15, both have high frequency horns. I rarely pair them up and the 4x10 is the cabinet I tend to use most of the time. To be honest, I've never really felt once the band is fully up to volume that I could really differentiate between the two cabs - any frequency range gets lost in the overall mix and [b]all I hear is whump[/b].
P
[/quote]

See, I'd hate this... if you mean the sound is kinda there but indistinct and I just don't get why it should be so. I wouldn't put up with it.

I want to hear every little thing... and I tend to throw all sorts of things in so it needs to be heard from my POV.

[Mr.T]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399739864' post='2447217']


See, I'd hate this... if you mean the sound is kinda there but indistinct and I just don't get why it should be so. I wouldn't put up with it.

I want to hear every little thing... and I tend to throw all sorts of things in so it needs to be heard from my POV.
[/quote]


I hate it as well, but it seems that most Guitards just swamp the sound with mush!!!

When I used to gig with my Status, I had an amazing solo sound..... But am finding a Fender (Fitted with TI Jazz Flats) sits in my current bands mix better.
..... Sad, but unfortunately true!

[thodrik]

I would love an 8x10 for the rehearsal room and a nice 4x10 to bring to gigs. Happy enough to run with the 15 inch speaker in my Mesa Walkabout.

Most of the time I am DI'd from either the amp or DI box, so most of the time the cabs are only serving me.

Edited May 10, 2014 by thodrik

[Jack]

I own a 6.5", a 10", a 12" and a 15". Just one of each but that's plenty. And they all sound good, of course they do otherwise I wouldn't own them any more.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Jack

[RhysP]

I've used 10's, 12's & 15's over the years & to be honest I couldn't tell any difference, but I'm really not that interested in the amp/cab side of things - if I can hear myself I'm happy.

[Conan]

[quote name='Handwired' timestamp='1399722708' post='2446993']
You should never search for a cab with a specific driver size in mind, just worry about weather the cab sounds good to you or not.
[/quote]

Agreed.

If you couldn't see the speakers through the grille, and there was no identifier on the cab itself; I wonder how many bass players could plug into an anonymous "black box" cabinet and be able to identify the size of the speaker(s) inside just from how the cab sounded?

My guess is that it wouldn't be very many - especially if the speakers were decent quality.

I think some of us are confusing cabinet quality with driver diameter. A crap 4x10 will never sound as good as a decent 2x12. That doesn't inherently make 12" speakers better!

That said.... I like fifteens.... Five of my last six cabs have contained at least one fifteen inch speaker.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Conan

[badboy1984]

Had a TC BC212 before and now a Trace 1x15. The BC212 sounded more deeper when my amp set flat and the Trace sounded less deeper when the amp set flat but to me the Trace sounded better at high volume and doesn't have that mid scoop tone from the TC cab.

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='action_panzer' timestamp='1399457786' post='2444343']
Call me old fashioned, but I always like the trouser-flapping ability of 15" speakers...seems exceptionally out of fashion these days, but I always find smaller speakers sound a bit gutless!

What do you go for and why?
[/quote]


[color=#222222]I currently have two options with cabs, one is a Mesa Walkabout 12 combo - I tend to use this at gigs where my stage setup has no impact on FOH and I can play with the mid-range to hear myself across whatever nonsense the Keyboard player dreams up.[/color]

[color=#222222]But for those moments when I'm not gracing the larger stages of the "Chicken in a basket" circuit. I also have a Bergantino NV115 (15 + 6) I bought this after taking my amp and my bass to Bass Direct and plugging into various cabs from various builders and listening to the results - you need a few watts to get the best from the Berg, but this is easily catered for with D class amps.[/color]

[color=#222222]Why do I prefer the 15..? - Personal taste, my ears and based on the in store testing that I did. I like to hear clearly defined notes, I like my bass to sit with the band to represent the music in the best way, this cab works well with ambitious drums, guitarists and Keys and is easily transported in the back of a Golf[/color]

[color=#222222]That's my view, your views and needs may differ.[/color]

Edited May 13, 2014 by No lust in Jazz

[BigRedX]

The sound of a cab and sound of individual speakers are two completely different things.

Stop looking at speaker sizes and spec sheets and start listening to how your bass sounds through the cab(s).

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399964397' post='2449298']
Agreed.

If you couldn't see the speakers through the grille, and there was no identifier on the cab itself; I wonder how many bass players could plug into an anonymous "black box" cabinet and be able to identify the size of the speaker(s) inside just from how the cab sounded?

My guess is that it wouldn't be very many - especially if the speakers were decent quality.

I think some of us are confusing cabinet quality with driver diameter. A crap 4x10 will never sound as good as a decent 2x12. That doesn't inherently make 12" speakers better!

That said.... I like fifteens.... Five of my last six cabs have contained at least one fifteen inch speaker.
[/quote]

I'd feel confident I could tell..... if you lined them up and A/B'd between them...

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1400008707' post='2449907']
I'd feel confident I could tell..... if you lined them up and A/B'd between them...
[/quote]

I'd be genuinely interested in the results of such a test - assuming it could be arranged!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1399964397' post='2449298']
If you couldn't see the speakers through the grille, and there was no identifier on the cab itself; I wonder how many bass players could plug into an anonymous "black box" cabinet and be able to identify the size of the speaker(s) inside just from how the cab sounded?
My guess is that it wouldn't be very many - especially if the speakers were decent quality.
[/quote]+1. No one would be able to do so with any more accuracy than calling the flip of a coin, in this case one with three sides. It would be even more interesting to have three examples of each, loaded with different drivers that would give different results. For example, one with an Eminence 12, one with a Beyma 12, one with a Celestion 12. All would sound different, despite being the same size. To further befuddle the 'Golden Ears', how about a horn loaded Eminence Kappalite 3010LF versus an EVM15B in a 1 cu ft sealed cab? There are some things where size matters. Electric bass drivers isn't one of them. OTOH, like another tool, what matters isn't the size of the driver, what matters is what you do with it.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Marvin]

The last 3 set ups I've used have all had 10's in them (a Fender Rumble 410, a Hartke 410XL and an Ampeg 410BHLF)...they all sounded different, despite using the same amp/rack set up. The Ampeg is mine and the Hartke the cab in the practice room my band uses the Rumble from a different practice room again, and they are poles apart.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Marvin

[JTUK]

Understand all that... but you are talking about the sound but I feel I could tell
from the response of the speaker.
There is a certain something I can get out of a 10, that I can't get out of a 15'..
the horn element blurs it to a degree...
12's typically muddle the waters.....

Would be an interesting 'test'

[BigRedX]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1400149467' post='2451163']
Understand all that... but you are talking about the sound but I feel I could tell
from the response of the speaker.
[/quote]

I would suggest that what you are hearing is as much (if not more) down to the design of the cab as it is to the size of the speaker(s).

[lukeward2004]

Personally, I have always favoured 10" speakers having previously owned a 4x10, and now with my current cab, 3x10 (Epi UL310).

My first cab was a 1x15 and although it was plenty loud, it was too bassy for my liking - not enough definition in the mids and highs, great for reggae and big, round thumping basslines but rubbish for anything else.

I think the whole speaker size thing is totally dependant on other factors - such as the amp quality (if its in a combo), does the cabinet have a front or rear ported design, how well the cab is manufactured, is it a neo or traditional magnet, are they aluminium coned, does the cabinet have a tweeter and how sensitive is it etc etc etc....

Ultimately, only one thing matters (as with anything in this world) - does it sound good to your ears?

[BassTractor]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1400149467' post='2451163']
I feel I could tell from the response of the speaker.
[/quote]

I believe that you could.
My hunch says it's the laws of physics that command that different physical capacities must make for differences in sound - even if it's only about dispersion patterns for different frequencies, which could already be enough for an experienced ear.
I can be wrong of course, but a simple model about frequency response is not what it takes to convince me otherwise.

Somewhat analogue to this is the old story of people getting annoyed with the sound from their neighbours' "huge speakers" travelling through large buildings, and time and again it appears that it was actually small speakers that did that.
I can't explain this phsysically, but that same hunch tells me that excursion paired with dispersion is a large bit of it.

I might be proven wrong, which of course is only welcome.

[Wylie]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1399460957' post='2444403']
10's and 12's and the most glorious sound I've had for ages was from a
a big amp running into a 212 and 210....
But.... sometimes you have to wonder what bass players themselves hear and
actually want and they often think a bass sound stops at an Ampeg rig.
This is not a dig at Ampeg so much but the outdated view the players
have of a good bass sound. I call it the pub 'thunk' sound

Anyway... I don't see the point of 15's..never really have, tbh and don't own one.
[/quote]

+1. Tens and twelves.

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1400149467' post='2451163']I feel I could tell from the response of the speaker.
Would be an interesting 'test'
[/quote]

It would! But (and I ask out of genuine interest here) how would you feel if you were wrong?

[JTUK]

15's have always felt slower to me... so you don't tend to get the sound jump out at you..
Some might call this bite... but I don't feel that is the right description as it has connetations
with a frequency, ...I prefer to hear the speed of attack. It may well be the speed the cone
can move at.
When I think and hear my 12" and 10" cabs... both the same model type, but different chassis sizes,
I like the weight of 'attack' of the 12's...and can live with that as a standalone unit, for sure, but the
10's are sharper and faster sounding. This is most noticeable or even only noticeable up the
higher end where you are asking the speaker to produce a fast sharp response.
It is this nuance that I think can detect. If you are getting a predominantely bassier sound, then
this would tend to muddle the waters quite a bit..
I will pay more attention to this when I next take out the 212 and put the 210 on top of it...as
then the difference is right there and then. I have done this a few times recently and been very
happy with the sound, even to the point that a year ago... the 2x210 was the way to go... then the
212 was..and now I run both for a biggish stage, and I get strong mids come through everything
and also get the fast attack of the 10's to compliment ...

I have gotten pretty good at getting the higher end of a cab working quite quickly ( for my sound goals )
as I like to do a few things that asks a lot of the rig. Things that I need to speak, many players I know
aren't concerned with..or don't even want to consider...or just don't.
I need or want every little flick and 'catch' and harmonic and they need to come across over quite a full band sound.

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Mr.T' timestamp='1399748600' post='2447323']
I hate it as well, but it seems that most Guitards just swamp the sound with mush!!!

When I used to gig with my Status, I had an amazing solo sound..... But am finding a Fender (Fitted with TI Jazz Flats) sits in my current bands mix better.
..... Sad, but unfortunately true!
[/quote]

OK, perhaps I didn't put that right, so let me put things into perspective.

The guitarist in Nancy Johnson plays with a tone at the very phat end of the frequency - so much so that live there appears (to my ears) to be significant crossover from both our instruments. I have tried to go the route of 'owning your frequency', but we always tend to be to differ...I've twiddled with the knobs on his amp (SG/Bugera head and 4x12), but there's s fine line between full on rawk \m/ and AM radio coming out of his set up.

If anything, my desired tone (a kind of Geddy Lee/Jean Jacques Burnel grunt/fuzz hybrid), sits in a higher and wider range than the guitar. I can hear everything without issue, but find the guitar muddies a lot of the nuances of my technique/sounds.

Incidentally, the official technical spec of the cabinets (Hartke Hydrive 1x15 and 4x10 enclosures) gives that the 4x10 potentially delivers 10Hz more low end than the 1x15, which i find a little unfathomable, but I suppose reflects why the 4x10 gets nights out and the 1x15 tends to stay home alone.
P

[xgsjx]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1400265401' post='2452495']
OK, perhaps I didn't put that right, so let me put things into perspective.

The guitarist in Nancy Johnson plays with a tone at the very phat end of the frequency - so much so that live there appears (to my ears) to be significant crossover from both our instruments. I have tried to go the route of 'owning your frequency', but we always tend to be to differ...I've twiddled with the knobs on his amp (SG/Bugera head and 4x12), but there's s fine line between full on rawk \m/ and AM radio coming out of his set up.

If anything, my desired tone (a kind of Geddy Lee/Jean Jacques Burnel grunt/fuzz hybrid), sits in a higher and wider range than the guitar. I can hear everything without issue, but find the guitar muddies a lot of the nuances of my technique/sounds.

Incidentally, the official technical spec of the cabinets (Hartke Hydrive 1x15 and 4x10 enclosures) gives that the 4x10 potentially delivers 10Hz more low end than the 1x15, which i find a little unfathomable, but I suppose reflects why the 4x10 gets nights out and the 1x15 tends to stay home alone.
P
[/quote]

My observations, I see 2 things here.
1- Your guitarist is playing through a 4x12. Why? A 1x12 should be more than ample for the majority of gigs unless he's playing outdoors with no PA support.
2- It appears like you want to sound like the guitarist & he wants to sound like the bassist. Have you thought about swapping instruments for a song?

I hope that didn't come across as having a dig. It most certainly wasn't meant to & as it is, having your bass with a more mid to high tone & the guitar with a bassy tone may work really well & give your band it's sound.
At the end of the day, it's how the whole band sounds that is important, & if the audience think you sound great, then that's a good thing.

Edited to say, I prefer 10s. They have a nicer, more aesthetically pleasing curve to the diameter than all other sizes.

Edited May 16, 2014 by xgsjx

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1400266357' post='2452506']
My observations, I see 2 things here.
1- Your guitarist is playing through a 4x12. Why? A 1x12 should be more than ample for the majority of gigs unless he's playing outdoors with no PA support.
2- It appears like you want to sound like the guitarist & he wants to sound like the bassist. Have you thought about swapping instruments for a song?

I hope that didn't come across as having a dig. It most certainly wasn't meant to & as it is, having your bass with a more mid to high tone & the guitar with a bassy tone may work really well & give your band it's sound.
At the end of the day, it's how the whole band sounds that is important, & if the audience think you sound great, then that's a good thing.

Edited to say, I prefer 10s. They have a nicer, more aesthetically pleasing curve to the diameter than all other sizes.
[/quote]

I honestly don't take offense, so don't worry. We sound [i]great [/i]live and generally people are complimentary.

Why a 4x12? It's his choice...he has talked about going with a 2x12. Hell, he's happy, he's a lovely guy and that makes me happy.

Me? I just like my tone. I'm a more than adequate guitarist, but I prefer bass. Easier/sexier.
P

[JTUK]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1400265401' post='2452495']
OK, perhaps I didn't put that right, so let me put things into perspective.

The guitarist in Nancy Johnson plays with a tone at the very phat end of the frequency - so much so that live there appears (to my ears) to be significant crossover from both our instruments. I have tried to go the route of 'owning your frequency', but we always tend to be to differ...I've twiddled with the knobs on his amp (SG/Bugera head and 4x12), but there's s fine line between full on rawk \m/ and AM radio coming out of his set up.

If anything, my desired tone (a kind of Geddy Lee/Jean Jacques Burnel grunt/fuzz hybrid), sits in a higher and wider range than the guitar. I can hear everything without issue, but find the guitar muddies a lot of the nuances of my technique/sounds.

Incidentally, the official technical spec of the cabinets (Hartke Hydrive 1x15 and 4x10 enclosures) gives that the 4x10 potentially delivers 10Hz more low end than the 1x15, which i find a little unfathomable, but I suppose reflects why the 4x10 gets nights out and the 1x15 tends to stay home alone.
P
[/quote]

It seems that you have ideas of the sound that are fundementally different...how close you can get depends
on how willing you both are to put band context before personaly preference.
I tend to think that powerful humbuckers of gtrs are dangerouns in the 'wrong' hands as
they tend to flood the sound too much. I think it far easier/preferable to start thin.
This is also what has kept Fender basses are the top of the game for so long and why, still,
they get the vast majority of pro gigs...buth that is another arguement.
Basically the gtr needs to recognise that you are THE bass. A simple way to draw attention
to this...and this is a FAIL with so many bands I see... try a simple gtr and bass chugging pattern
with drums and see at what point the bass becomes swamped by the gtr. I'd say the band is getting
this wrong if swamped 20-30ft away and going thru the P.A compounds the problem.
He is going to have to hear this himself...but if it can't be resolved, and it is your band, he may have to
go. This is one of the things I use to pick the gtr in our units...that along with the style that the band requires.
But then once you get this picky, you are asking for pretty neat gtr players, And that brings a whole set
of others issues.
The up side is that a decent paying gig can attract an awful lot of very good players as some of the rates
that people go for in 'big' name bands today, is, frankly, ridiculous

[Mr.T]

I am envious of those of you that have a Guitard that has an interest in the overall sound of the band.
Seriously.... The Guitard in my current band takes offense and makes sarcastic comments when either myself of our Roadie/Soundman makes any suggestions regarding his levels or tone!
At tonights gig he was apparently completely drowning out our singer in some of the numbers. We only put vocals through the PA and it is often a bit of a battle.