Ludicrous!

[coasterbass]

[quote name='ste_m3' post='264446' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:38 AM']Well done for keeping it prefeesional man, after three times i really think i'd have apologised politely to the bride and groom then f***ed off!

This is a load of twonk really, i mean say a band plays three hours a week, thats under 5% that some whiney old bastards cant hack. What would they do if they lived near a railway or an airport?!

Again, Good job![/quote]


Cheers again Ste.
Could I please point out that this venue is ON the A1, and opposite an airfield !!

[MythSte]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='264449' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:48 AM']Cheers again Ste.
Could I please point out that this venue is ON the A1, and opposite an airfield !! [/quote]

Is there a suicide smiley?!

[Delberthot]

A similar problem that i have been encountering for the past few years is that a large number of hotels seem to be selling off land to build houses on.

They then have to fit sound level meters as the people who bough the houses then complained about the noise!

[coasterbass]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='264448' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:48 AM']+1000!!

I disagree completely with the sentiment of ironside1966's post.

I cannot for the life of me imagine why any band with any dgree of self respect would even consider demeaning itself to such a ludicrous degree.

May as well have the "Welcome" tatoo on the forehead IMHO.[/quote]

I take your point to a degree, but after having driven 200 miles to do this gig there was an element of Dunkirk spirit about it.
Your point about 'self respect' is a little harsh I think, as when the cards were fully on the table we:
a) proved ourselves to know more about acoustic science than the Env Health guys
know more about electricity than the electrician
c) were proved to be the reasonable and professional ones in the eyes of the 'happy' couple.
?

[phil_the_bassist]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='264453' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:59 AM']a) proved ourselves to know more about acoustic science than the Env Health guys
know more about electricity than the electrician
c) were proved to be the reasonable and professional ones in the eyes of the 'happy' couple.[/quote]

I think the smiley w/ shades adds kudos to you arguement

just goes to show that the band aint as thik as wot the drummer looks, innit?

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='264390' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:53 AM']I could hear myself pick the strings, and people could happily chat at normal volumes over the PA when standing on the sweetspot of the dancefloor!! Ludicrous.[/quote]


well, if they had to shout to each other in order to converse at a distance of 1 meter, then they should have been wearing ear defenders as that is the rule of thumb criteria for them to be worn.

If you have to shout, then your ears are being damaged.

The damage is accumulative and non reversible.

[ironside1966]

I can understand why people disagree with me.
But in the nicest possible way, being a professional is completely different to how you think being a professional is when you are a armature or even semi pro

A band is there to offer a services to clients, they are not pop starts there is no good throwing your dummy out if things don’t go your own way.
As I said if you don’t want to play ball cancel. This is some one big day remember it is no good to any one turning up putting petrol in the van then going home.
I do not advocate doing a gig at all costs especially if there is risk to equipment or life.

Sorry the management turned out to be dickheads, hope you feel you went about things the right way because Any well done for acting like professionals

[Balcro]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='264453' date='Aug 18 2008, 11:59 AM']I take your point to a degree, but after having driven 200 miles to do this gig there was an element of Dunkirk spirit about it.
Your point about 'self respect' is a little harsh I think, as when the cards were fully on the table we:
a) proved ourselves to know more about acoustic science than the Env Health guys
B) know more about electricity than the electrician
c) were proved to be the reasonable and professional ones in the eyes of the 'happy' couple.
?[/quote]


Well done for sticking with it right to the bitter end. Professional. Spot on.

The one thing nobody took into account was a lying paranoid toe-rag of a venue manager. Sadly, in my experience, very few of them know anything except checking the takings. Electricians seem to know about connecting wires together and sometimes a bit about the IEEE regs, but applying common sense and making a good choice of sound limiter or a sensible installation is not on the curriculum. As for Environmental Health, you didn't make much comment in today's early post. You sound seriously underwhelmed. Didn't they give you any advice or have any dialogue? If they were on-site, then they should have been in there betweeen you and the management.

PS. Further to "old-gits" earlier postings, E.H would not normally confiscate equipment straight off. They usually serve a "Notice" on the Manager/Venue/Company first. Then, on subsequent breaches of the Notice they [u]could[/u] seize equipment. 99 times out of 100 it would be the equipment belonging to the whoever was served with the Notice, not the musicians. To go about seizing equipment requires a fair bit of Local authority preparation - paying for a truck & a driver; keeping them on standby; having a place to store the gear and organising it in advance. I think it's normal practice to give advance written warnings to the owners that equipment might be seized. Illegal raves are probably different.

Balcro

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='264479' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:42 PM']I can understand why people disagree with me.
But in the nicest possible way, being a professional is completely different to how you think being a professional is when you are a armature or even semi pro

A band is there to offer a services to clients, they are not pop starts there is no good throwing your dummy out if things don’t go your own way.
As I said if you don’t want to play ball cancel. This is some one big day remember it is no good to any one turning up putting petrol in the van then going home.
I do not advocate doing a gig at all costs especially if there is risk to equipment or life.

Sorry the management turned out to be dickheads, hope you feel you went about things the right way because Any well done for acting like professionals[/quote]


I have been pro in the past ( 5 years straight ) and semi pro ( still playing 4 gigs per week ) for 25 years. I have never cancelled a wedding- it means too much to the 2 clients. I think the lads did the right thing in dealing with the venue in that manner- the venue is not the client- the bride and groom are. I think that the sound contantly tripping isnt something that didnt go the way the band would like but didnt go the way the bride and groom would like.

The venue should have some tough questions from the clients and at the very least discounts should be sought ( most people ) only get married once and something like this will not be forgotten in a hurry.

Sometimes you have to bite your tongue dealing with hotel management who tend to think that professionally ( just because you are in a band ) you are on their level ( or below ). I`m thinking now of the many As***les I have dealt with and ITS GETTING ME MAD!!

[Toasted]

I'd have a hard time continuing with that gig. The damage to my equipment from repeated powercuts would be costing me more than the gig was paying.

[bassicinstinct]

[b]coasterbass:[/b][u][/u]

Point taken although, unless the happy couple divorce and remarry the prospect of getting any work as a result of the experience would seem to be slim, assuming that you'd not be falling over yourselves to do a gig at the behest of the hotel itself.

Maybe the "self respect"cooment [b]was[/b] a little harsh.

No offence meant.


[b]ironside1966:[/b][u][/u]

Thanks for pointing out what "being a professional" is all about. I've only been doing it to one degree or another for 40 years, so what do I know eh?

[Earbrass]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='232659' date='Jul 4 2008, 01:13 PM']I would politely inform them that under those conditions they will not really be getting a live music performance.
I find it incredible that people cannot tolerate a single night of celebration without selfish self interested complaint[/quote]

But it's not a single night, is it, if it's an "established venue". I'm 100% on the side of the neighbours here - it's the venue who are being selfish, by not caring about their neighbours as long as they are getting their payment. Well done the neighbours for getting the restrictions imposed. More people should complain more often.

[Merton]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='264700' date='Aug 18 2008, 04:33 PM']But it's not a single night, is it, if it's an "established venue". I'm 100% on the side of the neighbours here - it's the venue who are being selfish, by not caring about their neighbours as long as they are getting their payment. Well done the neighbours for getting the restrictions imposed. More people should complain more often.[/quote]
...and ruin countless other venues for wedding bands to play at. Good idea!

[Toasted]

I regularly attend metal and hardcore gigs in the front room of a terraced house in Leeds. Don't know or care what the neighbours think.

[coasterbass]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='264700' date='Aug 18 2008, 04:33 PM']But it's not a single night, is it, if it's an "established venue". I'm 100% on the side of the neighbours here - it's the venue who are being selfish, by not caring about their neighbours as long as they are getting their payment. Well done the neighbours for getting the restrictions imposed. More people should complain more often.[/quote]

Whilst the NIMBY factor is there, and i have some sympathy for people who like a quiet life, the fact remains that they shouldn't live on the A1 and opposite an airfield if thats their main concern.
Also, the venue have already been restricted to 6 events per year, so its not exactly every day.

[charic]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='264476' date='Aug 18 2008, 12:40 PM']well, if they had to shout to each other in order to converse at a distance of 1 meter, then they should have been wearing ear defenders as that is the rule of thumb criteria for them to be worn.

If you have to shout, then your ears are being damaged.

The damage is accumulative and non reversible.[/quote]

Not entirely true but I agree with the sentiment.

Damage is not done to the ears unless the volume level is sustained of "x" period of time. "x" varies with the level of volume in mind. Other than that your ears also have this nifty function of naturally defending themselves. You may notice that everything sounds more "compressed" than usual. This is the ears defending themselves. At this point your ears may be being damaged but unless the volume is being sustained then you should be fine as they do also naturally heal to a degree.

This all being said... wear ear protection anyway. Do it, dont be silly whether in the crowd or on stage. Earplugs actually help you hear BETTER.

Now I feel smart and all is right with the world

Carry on

[Sean]

I admire the patience involved and the amount of self control. I would have had to have withdrawan from the gig as I know from experience that we have at least two band members that would have gone into psychomode before your "take 1".

[Kev]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='264700' date='Aug 18 2008, 04:33 PM']But it's not a single night, is it, if it's an "established venue". I'm 100% on the side of the neighbours here - it's the venue who are being selfish, by not caring about their neighbours as long as they are getting their payment. Well done the neighbours for getting the restrictions imposed. More people should complain more often.[/quote]
sorry, but just no, not in this situation

they chose to live in a house on the A1, they should not have made that decision if they don't like noise! also, chances are just as likely that they moved in whilst the venue was already there, so they should accept noise every weekend! i used to live behind a hotel that did weddings and bands, and there was no such sound restriction, and i don't think there should be. if your sayin that the venue are selfish for not worrying about the sound level, thats bollox, your calling the bride and groom 'selfish' for wanting a band to play at their wedding, the venue just take the fee for hiring the room or whatever, they dont choose the bloody band. and if your honestly suggesting that makes the bride and groom selfish for wanting to make their day special, and not the neighbours for wanting to enjoy coronation street, then we agree to disagree


well done for putting up with those conditions mate

Edited August 18, 2008 by BassManKev

[Musky]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='264821' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:46 PM']sorry, but just no, not in this situation

they chose to live in a house on the A1, they should not have made that decision if they don't like noise! also, chances are just as likely that they moved in whilst the venue was already there, so they should accept noise every weekend! i used to live behind a hotel that did weddings and bands, and there was no such sound restriction, and i don't think there should be. if your sayin that the venue are selfish for not worrying about the sound level, thats bollox, your calling the bride and groom 'selfish' for wanting a band to play at their wedding, the venue just take the fee for hiring the room or whatever, they dont choose the bloody band. and if your honestly suggesting that makes the bride and groom selfish for wanting to make their day special, and not the neighbours for wanting to enjoy coronation street, then we agree to disagree


well done for putting up with those conditions mate [/quote]


I've got to disagree with that one Kev. Although we don't know the full circumstances surrounding this gig (whether the neighbours were just moany old gits or the venue had been seriously taking liberties with volume in the past), it is totally down to the venue to ensure it is fit for the purpose it was booked for. I'm sure that the bride and groom asked whether it was OK for a band to play and booked it for that reason. It is the responsibility of the venue to make sure that they had a good reception - including a band that can play at something like a reasonable volume.

It sounds to me like the place was more interested in the booking fee than ensuring a good venue for a reception.

[lemmywinks]

We've had similar problems with a venue round our area (Mains Hall if you're interested).

The guy will tell the bride and groom that they can have a live band and take the money accordingly. Then when the PA keeps cutting out because of the sound meter (which is placed 15m in front of the stage) he tells them it's the bands fault and that he has live entertainment on all the time without any problems (despite every band that plays there encountering the same problems).
I have been to a works do at the venue and the karaoke was triggering the sound meter, so how he expects to accomodate a live party band with a live drummer i don't know.
Be very wary that the organiser/manager will try to pass the buck on to the band instead of admitting he allowed the happy couple to book a band knowing full well the venue is not suitable, for fear of losing the wedding to another venue.

On both occasions the sound meter was turned off at the request of a very dissatisfied wedding party

[ironside1966]

Sorry Bassicinstinct I didn’t mean to be personal and was not referring to you, when I read my post back. I can now see that it sounded patronizing.
I was actually trying referring to people I have known and have worked with in the past.

I can understand the neighbours complaining even if it is one night a year if the volume is excusive.

I try to look at things from all sides
I personally think it is the hotels duty to inform the booker that the venue is not suitable for live bands,
If the booker insists on a live band then the venue has every right to insist on volume restrictions.

When the band turns up who are informed of the restrictions, it is fair to say that the band are expected to accommodate the hotels wishes on volume. But if it turns out that it is imposable for the band to play then the fee should be met in full.
This all should be agreed beforehand.

The problem lies when hotels or bands just take the booking and pocket the money without any regards for the bookers wishers.

PS you will always get dickheads in charge of venues making life harder then needs be.

[Jarhead]

I think i would have gone The Who lol, but with my instrument being replaced with something like a golf club, and the other equipment replaced with the limiter, because that would have pissed me off no end , having the power go out repeatedly.
In fact, the last party my band played, the person who booked us actually instructed us to be loud, purely because he didn't like his neighbors, which provided no end of amusement
Zach
P.S: The idea of a rock band being... quiet is sacrilegious

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='264910' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:40 PM']Sorry Bassicinstinct I didn’t mean to be personal and was not referring to you, when I read my post back. I can now see that it sounded patronizing.
I was actually trying referring to people I have known and have worked with in the past.

I can understand the neighbours complaining even if it is one night a year if the volume is excusive.

I try to look at things from all sides
I personally think it is the hotels duty to inform the booker that the venue is not suitable for live bands,
If the booker insists on a live band then the venue has every right to insist on volume restrictions.

When the band turns up who are informed of the restrictions, it is fair to say that the band are expected to accommodate the hotels wishes on volume. But if it turns out that it is imposable for the band to play then the fee should be met in full.
This all should be agreed beforehand.

The problem lies when hotels or bands just take the booking and pocket the money without any regards for the bookers wishers.

PS you will always get dickheads in charge of venues making life harder then needs be.[/quote]

Understood amd agreed.

[Rich]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='264700' date='Aug 18 2008, 04:33 PM']But it's not a single night, is it, if it's an "established venue". I'm 100% on the side of the neighbours here - it's the venue who are being selfish, by not caring about their neighbours as long as they are getting their payment. Well done the neighbours for getting the restrictions imposed. More people should complain more often.[/quote]OK, so where does it stop? Years ago, near where I used to live there was a dog boarding kennel. Out in the middle of nowhere, only one house anywhere near it. That house was sold, new couple moved in and, yup you guessed it, they complained about the noise. The owner of the kennel had two choices: 1] install complete soundproofing/enclosures which he could not afford, or 2] close. So another business folds, and a few more people on the dole... all because of the selfishness of these twats who knew full well that there was an established kennel nearby when they bought the place. Would you have been 100% on their side too?
NIMBYism is a curse, the authorities bend over backwards to appease people with even the flimsiest & most pathetic of objections.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Rich' post='266051' date='Aug 20 2008, 07:57 AM']OK, so where does it stop? Years ago, near where I used to live there was a dog boarding kennel. Out in the middle of nowhere, only one house anywhere near it. That house was sold, new couple moved in and, yup you guessed it, they complained about the noise. The owner of the kennel had two choices: 1] install complete soundproofing/enclosures which he could not afford, or 2] close. So another business folds, and a few more people on the dole... all because of the selfishness of these twats who knew full well that there was an established kennel nearby when they bought the place. Would you have been 100% on their side too?
NIMBYism is a curse, the authorities bend over backwards to appease people with even the flimsiest & most pathetic of objections.[/quote]

Yup, not wrong there. We've lost quite a few music venues when people have moved into houses next to/very near to pubs, and then complained when the pubs have had moderate volume bands on. The c**ts in the council serve noise abatement notices at the first hint of a complaint. BTW a lot of the complaints have come from young people not just old gits.