Ludicrous!

[Balcro]

Oh no, stuff for me already and I only retired from Environmental Health in April.

I'm with [b]ironside1966[/b] on this; lots of good advice. Don't by-pass gear or smash anything up. A quick drive-by from an EHO will spot mains cables going to the wrong place and the venue will probably loose its Premises Licence!! Work the venue and entertain the guests, not yourselves. The establishment will like you and the wedding party will love you.

You're lucky there's no backline. With PA only you've got maximium control and you can keep the instrument balance.
Right, tech stuff: - By my simple theoretical calculations you can work to a maximium (PEAK) of 93dB. Assuming 93dB(a) at 1m from the marquee you should (in theory) be down to 54dB(a) @ 128m.

Double check with the venue or the Licensing Officer that the sound level has been set at 54dB(a) and not 54dB©. If it's set to © then you 'll have to trim the bass just a little more.

If you want to check your level, get a £20/25 sound level meter from Maplin and do a dry run ASAP - at the lower setting for your PA guy. In this type of situation the most penetrating noises are usually the bass and the vocals, so they will need the most care. Flatten off any boom from the bass and reduce any echo on the vocals. it all helps.

Good luck,

Balcro.

[i]
We're booked for a marquee wedding at an 'established' venue in the midlands next month.
We've just been sent the following as a warning:

"1 - they have very miserable neighbours who 'won't like rock', apparently they particularly dislike the bass....

2. the have environmental health fitting a sound limiter this week which has to be set at 54db on the boundary of their property. This does mean it can be louder inside the marquee, but who knows how much.

3. we have to cross a river to get to the marquee - this can be achieved by footbridge or by driving through a ford"[/i]

[coasterbass]

Thats great advice, thanks Balcro

[bass_ferret]

And get a cattle prod in case the drummer hits a couple of rim-shots

[stevebasshead]

[quote name='Balcro' post='232734' date='Jul 4 2008, 03:01 PM']If you want to check your level, get a £20/25 sound level meter from Maplin and do a dry run ASAP - at the lower setting for your PA guy. In this type of situation the most penetrating noises are usually the bass and the vocals, so they will need the most care. Flatten off any boom from the bass and reduce any echo on the vocals. it all helps.

Good luck,

Balcro.[/quote]

You'll need to allow a few extra dB for "crowd babble" for when the gig starts, it'll add to what you produce. Wedding gigs have more of this in the background than pubs of course because most of the people there won't be live music go-ers and hence aren't going to be that attentive to the band - they're there for a catch up with relatives they've not seen since the last Wedding/Christening/Funeral.

Also allow a dB or two if the wind is in the direction of the cut-off mic.

Or muffle the mic with something thick and absorbent when no one's looking

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='232834' date='Jul 4 2008, 05:12 PM']Also allow a dB or two if the wind is in the direction of the cut-off mic.[/quote]

The wind can make a huge difference. One big gust in the wrong direction and...

Alex

[ARGH]

Where is the venue?

[molan]

We played a gig once where the sound limiter was particularly responsive to high frequencies. An un-mic'd cymbal crash would set it off or the high end of an alto sax.

They also had the trip wired into every single window and a set of french doors. As soon as it got warm and people opened a window the power to he stage would cut!

[elom]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='232644' date='Jul 4 2008, 01:04 PM']2. Very worrying, 54db is pretty quiet. It's going to be difficult to prove that the limiter was triggered by you and not a passing vole breaking wind...[/quote]

I'm in a foul mood this evening and that made me laugh, so thank you!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='molan' post='232957' date='Jul 4 2008, 11:43 PM']They also had the trip wired into every single window and a set of french doors. As soon as it got warm and people opened a window the power to he stage would cut![/quote]

Ooh, that's a good idea. There's a hotel across the street from me and I call them practically every weekend to tell them to shut their ****ing windows.

They do pay attention though, so I've never complained to the council. I did complain to the council when they blocked up the whole street's drains from years of pouring waste fat into them and that nearly got them shut down, but a backyard full of **** is a bigger deal than a noisy wedding.

[OldGit]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='232628' date='Jul 4 2008, 12:48 PM']We're booked for a marquee wedding at an 'established' venue in the midlands next month.
We've just been sent the following as a warning:

"1 - they have very miserable neighbours who 'won't like rock', apparently they particularly dislike the bass....

2. the have environmental health fitting a sound limiter this week which has to be set at 54db on the boundary of their property. This does mean it can be louder inside the marquee, but who knows how much.

3. we have to cross a river to get to the marquee - this can be achieved by footbridge or by driving through a ford"

How exactly are we supposed to gig with that ?

[/quote]


Can it.

You can't play properly under those restrictions.

If they didn't mention it when booking you it's probably breach of contract conditions so you should get full fee if it comes to an argument and you need the money.

If this happened to our band we'd just let them off the fee, 'cos that's our internal agreement and it works in our favour in the long term, but unless you have an acoustic show you can do instead you are on a hiding to nothing.

I'm not sure if this is apocryphal, and Balcro may be able to confirm this, but I heard that if there is a breach of a "keep it quiet" order the enforcement officers can confiscate the gear responsible for the noise, just as they can if someone in a flat plays Dancing Queen at full blast all night on their stereo ...

Edited July 6, 2008 by OldGit

[endorka]

Can I be the token contrary person? Do I need to ask permission?

I don't see what the problem is. I've done hundreds of gigs where we have by definition had to play quietly - by this I mean that people should be able to have a conversation without raising their voices while in close proximity to the band. Think background music at corporate functions, restaurants, soup music at weddings, etc. I love it. There is often a great deal of artistic freedom and you can hear all that is going on with the music. You don't have to worry about earplugs or ringing ears after the gig. And you only require a tiny amount of gear to make it work - sometimes no amplification at all, so there is no heavy duty loadin, setup and breakdown.

Nice.

As others have suggested, use a minimal PA and keep it quiet. Get the drummer to use brushes, or even percussion. A free and easy "noise meter" are the people around you - if they're having to lean into each other to talk, you're too loud.

So you can't play funky/bluesy/rocky music quietly? I disagree - I find that an audience favourite at the kind of gig described above is "Pick Up The Pieces" played on flute, acoustic guitar (or piano), double bass and drums (with brushes). Works really well.

Jennifer

[OldGit]

[quote name='endorka' post='234114' date='Jul 7 2008, 01:18 PM']Can I be the token contrary person? Do I need to ask permission?

I don't see what the problem is. I've done hundreds of gigs where we have by definition had to play quietly - by this I mean that people should be able to have a conversation without raising their voices while in close proximity to the band. Think background music at corporate functions, restaurants, soup music at weddings, etc. I love it. There is often a great deal of artistic freedom and you can hear all that is going on with the music. You don't have to worry about earplugs or ringing ears after the gig. And you only require a tiny amount of gear to make it work - sometimes no amplification at all, so there is no heavy duty loadin, setup and breakdown.

Nice.

As others have suggested, use a minimal PA and keep it quiet. Get the drummer to use brushes, or even percussion. A free and easy "noise meter" are the people around you - if they're having to lean into each other to talk, you're too loud.

So you can't play funky/bluesy/rocky music quietly? I disagree - I find that an audience favourite at the kind of gig described above is "Pick Up The Pieces" played on flute, acoustic guitar (or piano), double bass and drums (with brushes). Works really well.

Jennifer[/quote]

yes, sure and that is fine if that is what they people wanted ... but it sounds from the OP as if they booked a rock band ............

[endorka]

[quote name='OldGit' post='234135' date='Jul 7 2008, 01:39 PM']yes, sure and that is fine if that is what they people wanted ... but it sounds from the OP as if they booked a rock band[/quote]

Aye well, if I was running the show, that's exactly what they'd get, only quieter than usual :-)

Jennifer

[ironside1966]

At least the venue has had the courtesy to inform you in advance.
If you can’t play quiet , turn the gig down and politely suggest the find something more suitable.

If You have a good sound engineer he will be in the best position to advise you on how to downsize the pa.
Maybe just take in one bass bin and use the fold back wedges for tops for tops.
Or borrow hire a small sub satellite system, don’t mic the drums up.

If there is two bands playing you might get the tendency to compete for volume, don’t .
I also would also suggest you contact the other band playing and try to work something out between you.

One last thought, playing quiet once in a while is often a good way of finding out how good your band really is because you can’t hide behind volume.

[phil_the_bassist]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='232834' date='Jul 4 2008, 05:12 PM']Or muffle the mic with something thick and absorbent when no one's looking [/quote]


...but the dummer will have to be behind his kit during the gig, not just baffling a mic



we've also had a similar situation where we were in a pub (and not a big one!) with tiled floors, and a limiter set to 70db placed on a ledge about 10ft high and 6ft infront of the band.


Our first song tripped it 3 times, and the rest of the gig was spent with all members of the band staring intently at the green-amber-red warning light that was attached to it! it was a freakin nightmare for us and the audience!

[ahpook]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='234182' date='Jul 7 2008, 02:38 PM']At least the venue has had the courtesy to inform you in advance.
If you can’t play quiet , turn the gig down and politely suggest the find something more suitable.[/quote]

plus the one

if you can't do as they want, then tbh i think you should turn down the gig, whether or not you think it's reasonable.

[bassbluestew]

We had this situation in a well known and used wedding venue in Glasgow which shall remain nameless called St Andrews in the Square.

We are a nine pieces Soul/funk/disco type band.

We had a long chat with the manageress, and after showing her that an alto sax played acoustically was going to set off her meter, she was very accomodating ( oooooohhhheerrrrr missus ). We worked with her to get a REASONABLE solution that worked for all parties concerned and she loved us and has recommended us for future work, so far we've had about 3 or 4 bookings from her.

Having said that we have also played in places where the manager was a complete twonk and didn't give a tuppeny cuss about the band our how well the evening was going to go as soon as dinner was out of the way. In those cases we make it perfectly clear to the brides mother ( who lets face it is the boss on the night, right ?? ) what is happening and why she can hear Granny snoring over the top of YMCA, it's normally entertainment enough for the band to watch her in full on angry action with aforesaid twonk !!

S

[coasterbass]

Well.... we finally played the gig this weekend !!

It
was
not
fun



I'd spent a lot of time talking to the venue prior to the gig to get assurances about stuff, and so that they knew we were dealing with it professionally, right up until Friday.

Turned up on saturday to find:
a) The Db limiter is NOT at the property limit, but is 10ft from the stage.
The Db limiter IS hooked in to the power supply, and is not 'read only'
c) Env Health WERE on site, and not away for the weekend
d) The venue management were incompetent, patronising, inept, offensive, beligerent c***s

The DB meter was set to be so sensitive that it peaked when the door of the marquee shut ! We were then told that Env Health were monitoring 'perceived volume' and not any set Db limit. How farcical and non-scientific is that??

We tripped the power 3 times during soundchecking, pretty much acoustically.

After 3hrs of soundchecking and retardedness (from them) it was established that we were going home if they didn't disconnect their meter. As they were actually monitoring the level outside they would come and tell the sound engineer to turn down (thats down from a starting point of zero!).

They rewired the place. On we came. 15seconds in, 'Bang'. Power cuts. Much murmoring.
They check the rewiring and we're told 'no, the sound limiter isn't in the circuit'. 'my arse', we protest. The lights go red, the reset button comes on, and it only cuts the PA power.

Take two: On we go again. 15seconds in, 'Bang'. Power cuts. Band walks off. They then tell us 'your equipment must be faulty or pulling too much juice'. We tell them to stick that up their ar*e. We're only pulling 9v and 12v power and its all tested. I tell them to check their circuits again.

Take three: On we go again. 15seconds in, 'Bang'. Power cuts. Cue Ian Brown 'I think we're wasting our time here lads' comment.
Bride and Groom apoplectic at the venue, as they could see we were doing all we could do. Even more heated discussion with venue manager and their electrician. Lots of finger pointing. We point out that unless we can see the mains cable coming straight from the genny, to the stage, ie. removing the spaghetti of cables currently there, then they couldn't be sure the limiter was out the loop. They protested, and did what we said to show we were wrong.

Take four: Everything works fine. We play the set straight through without problems. However the volume restrictions were still in place as they were instructing the soundguy to keep turning down. We all played the set from memory as there was no sound to reference other than the vox and drums. I could hear myself pick the strings, and people could happily chat at normal volumes over the PA when standing on the sweetspot of the dancefloor!! Ludicrous.

All in all it was tremendously unfulfilling and left a nasty taste in everyone's mouth. The bride and groom were happy with us which is all that matters, but they've got a lot of negotiating to do with the venue I reckon. I wouldn't pay them a penny.

As a plus point I met up with bassjamm and bought his Schroeder 1210R, so I'm very excited about that.

Edited August 19, 2008 by coasterbass

[phil_the_bassist]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='264390' date='Aug 18 2008, 09:53 AM']As a plus point I met up with bassjamm and bought his Schroeder 1210R, so I'm very excited about that.[/quote]

Sounds like an absolute nightmare! At least you've got a silver lining to that cloud!

Is there anywhere on the forum to list a warning of nightmare venues? (Mods, would this be appropriate?)

[Stylon Pilson]

It sounds like you were very professional, despite all of the nonsense that you were having to put up with. I have a lot of respect for you for that.

S.P.

[The Funk]

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='264423' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:37 AM']Is there anywhere on the forum to list a warning of nightmare venues? (Mods, would this be appropriate?)[/quote]

Nothing wrong with user reviews as long as they don't descend into rants and baseless rumours.

[coasterbass]

[quote name='stylonpilson' post='264427' date='Aug 18 2008, 10:57 AM']It sounds like you were very professional, despite all of the nonsense that you were having to put up with. I have a lot of respect for you for that.

S.P.[/quote]


Much appreciated.
A team pep talk helped settle nerves... along the lines of 'lets just get it over with, take the cheque, retire to a corner and get wasted'

[MythSte]

Well done for keeping it prefeesional man, after three times i really think i'd have apologised politely to the bride and groom then f***ed off!

This is a load of twonk really, i mean say a band plays three hours a week, thats under 5% that some whiney old bastards cant hack. What would they do if they lived near a railway or an airport?!

Again, Good job!

[thedontcarebear]

I played a venue in Norwich that kept cutting us off, was funny and stupid at the same time, in the end we had a bloke pretty much hanging on the wall resetting it ASAP when it went so we just continued eventually with a few seconds of no power, wasn't good for the amps though!

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='OldGit' post='233871' date='Jul 7 2008, 12:05 AM']Can it.

You can't play properly under those restrictions.

If they didn't mention it when booking you it's probably breach of contract conditions so you should get full fee if it comes to an argument and you need the money.

If this happened to our band we'd just let them off the fee, 'cos that's our internal agreement and it works in our favour in the long term, but unless you have an acoustic show you can do instead you are on a hiding to nothing.

I'm not sure if this is apocryphal, and Balcro may be able to confirm this, but I heard that if there is a breach of a "keep it quiet" order the enforcement officers can confiscate the gear responsible for the noise, just as they can if someone in a flat plays Dancing Queen at full blast all night on their stereo ...[/quote]

+1000!!

I disagree completely with the sentiment of ironside1966's post.

I cannot for the life of me imagine why any band with any dgree of self respect would even consider demeaning itself to such a ludicrous degree.

May as well have the "Welcome" tatoo on the forehead IMHO.