PJing my P

[Si600]

Yes I know I only got it last week, and yes I know that no-one but my wife and I have seen it but I'm thinking of PJing my new P.

Suggestions please as whether to go for an American Standard Jazz V pickup or one of the MM style ones the later Deluxe P's came with, or even to replace the P pickup as well so to have a matching set of aftermarket pickups.

Getting the standard Jazz pickup is currently my favoured option.

It may never happen but I'm thinking about it!

[chris_b]

I wouldn't bother.

25 years ago I put a J on my old P bass and the improvement over the P was marginal. I also added a preamp at the same time and that didn't really add much as I was expecting to the sound of the passive P either.

What I ended up with was probably 10% better than what I started with, so the whole exercise was a huge waste of money.

These days I play a PJ but with the J switched off. I prefer the P on its own.

If you want more out of your bass I'd look at improving the P pickup first.

[gary mac]

My deluxe that you can see in the avatar has the MM pup at the bridge. It does add some flexibility and I use it when playing at home but whenever I use it for gigs/rehearsals I always seem to end up just using the Precision pup. I suppose because I like the P bass sound

All things considered I don't think it's a mod I would bother with, unless of course, you don't want it to sound all P like.

[Ou7shined]

As with the others, with my PJ's or my PMM I invariably gravitate to the P pup - it's nice having the flexibility there but I just never seem to play with the back pups.

[neepheid]

There's a J pickup back there? I thought it was a shadow cast by the bridge!

[dannybuoy]

I say do it! When you have the right bridge pickup it can sound great, I play my BB with both pickups on most of the time. I think you need a fairly hot Jazz pickup to match the output of the P though.

[Happy Jack]

I have a Mike Lull PJ5 where he's done something a bit different ... the pan control doesn't pan [b]from [/b]the P-pickup [b]to [/b]the J-pickup, instead the P-pickup is always on and the pan control simply [b]adds [/b]progressively more of the J-pickup to the constant sound of the P-pickup.

I have several PJ Precisions where the pan does what it normally does and I always just use the P-pickup, but this Mike Lull system genuinely adds something since it means I can play [i][b]simple-P[/b][/i] or [i][b]P-with-attitude[/b][/i].

What I can't do with the Lull is play [i]J-bridge-pickup[/i] only, but I've never liked that sound anyway.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390232655' post='2342903']
I have a Mike Lull PJ5 where he's done something a bit different ... the pan control doesn't pan [b]from [/b]the P-pickup [b]to [/b]the J-pickup, instead the P-pickup is always on and the pan control simply [b]adds [/b]progressively more of the J-pickup to the constant sound of the P-pickup.

I have several PJ Precisions where the pan does what it normally does and I always just use the P-pickup, but this Mike Lull system genuinely adds something since it means I can play [i][b]simple-P[/b][/i] or [i][b]P-with-attitude[/b][/i].

What I can't do with the Lull is play [i]J-bridge-pickup[/i] only, but I've never liked that sound anyway.
[/quote]

Now that's a pretty clever idea! Not to play it down, mind, but couldn't you achieve the same with a common V/V/T arrangement, e.g., by leaving the P volume on '10' and just twiddling the J volume to your liking? Or is this to allow you to set your P/J blend as you want it and then adjust the overall volume? (Am I basically just answering my own question as I write this?)

[Happy Jack]

Dunno.

That idea wouldn't work with a J/J because of the interaction between the two single coils, so you'd have to test it by setting up a P/J as V/V/T controls.

I have several P/J basses, but they are all fundamentally Precisions with (adapted) Precision controls, and all have a pan control ('cos I like pan controls, me).

[Subthumper]

Yeah pretty much as most people have said, adding a jazz pup doesn't make it sound like a jazz bass. Mine doesn't. So you have the right to get another bass...how awfull.

[Lozz196]

I like the P/J sound - but then I`m a big Duff McKagan fan so that probably accounts for a lot of it. If it were me, I`d look at getting an MM pickup in the bridge, but getting a tappable one, so it can be used as a single-coil to replicate the J pickup sound. So then with volume controls for each pickup you have P, P/MM, P/J, MM & J sounds all in one bass. That be versatile overload.

[JapanAxe]

On my Sandberg VM, I use the P on its own for punk and classic rock, 50/50 mix for most pop, and go more towards the M for funk. I've always found a J bridge pickup on its own to be not quite fat enough.

[Pete1967]

I use my PJ quite a lot but, shocker, I'm not a huge fan of a pure P tone. I find the addition of the bridge pickup adds a bit of middle bite that I like, and gives a more rounded tone overall, but as with others I never use the J on it's own - plus it suits my playing style because I'm a thumb on the back pickup kinda guy. Personally I'd say you'd get a more versatile instrument, but perhaps go to a shop and try a few and see if you likey... If you do go for it I'd suggest selecting a pretty hot noiseless/split coil J to balance the output of the P and avoid single coil hum...

[mep]

I recently put some EMG's with active circuitry in my Charvel 2B and prefer the PJ sound live and when practising.

[Si600]

Some of you have said to get a hot pickup to better match the existing Fender standard P one. Er, what do you mean by that, and how do I tell whether it's hot enough?

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1390250050' post='2343217']
Some of you have said to get a hot pickup to better match the existing Fender standard P one. Er, what do you mean by that, and how do I tell whether it's hot enough?
[/quote]

Spit on it and see if it sizzles.

Joking aside, hot = higher impedance = higher output. A lot of people have mentioned the J pickup sounding 'thin' compared to the P, but something a bit hotter should provide a fatter, slightly louder tone that won't be drowned out by the P pickup.

A lot of manufacturers quote impedances for their pickups (or you can always find out for yourself, using a multimeter!), so try and choose one which will hold its own against your existing pickup. Worth bearing in mind that even on a Jazz bass, the bridge pickup has a slightly higher impedance than the neck pickup*.

(*At least, I think that's the case, though I don't own a Jazz! Anyone who knows better, please correct me!)

[iiipopes]

I have done it in a variety of configurations. I prefer an end-to-end Jazz-style humbucking pickup for the bridge position to eliminate any noise issue when soloing the J, and since the P pickup is just a hair closer to the bridge than the neck position J pickup, I prefer the J bridge pickup in the "70's" bridge position to add that slightest bit more top end when added in to the P. Something like the new Fender S3 noiseless Jazz, DiMarzio Ultra Jazz, Fralin Split Jazz, or similar, is recommended.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1390250050' post='2343217']
Some of you have said to get a hot pickup to better match the existing Fender standard P one. Er, what do you mean by that, and how do I tell whether it's hot enough?
[/quote]

Hot = higher output. If your bridge pickup is too weedy in output it will be completely dominated by the P pickup at the neck.

THe Dimarzio UltraJazz Jazz bridge pickup is generally accepted as one of the very best bridge pickups to ad to a P to make a PJ.

Anyway, my recommendation is to add a MM pickup, but right up against the P pickup. This is where the MM sweetspot is. If you put a MM pickup nearer the bridge is will tend to sound weak and honky. It will NOT sound like a STingray for sure.

I'm talking about something like this ...

[url=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/green-w-body.html][/url]

I have tried loads of different PJ's and twin P basses. My favourite overall is the MM/P combination with the MM butted right up to the P.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1390255280' post='2343314']
....

Anyway, my recommendation is to add a MM pickup, but right up against the P pickup. This is where the MM sweetspot is. If you put a MM pickup nearer the bridge is will tend to sound weak and honky. It will NOT sound like a STingray for sure.

I'm talking about something like this ...

[url="http://www.ephotobay.com/share/green-w-body.html"][/url]

I have tried loads of different PJ's and twin P basses. My favourite overall is the MM/P combination with the MM butted right up to the P.
[/quote]

Actually the MM and the DG side of the P pups partially occupy each others territory. In order to keep the exact MM sweet spot I found the best compromise was to reverse the P.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1390256916' post='2343346']


Actually the MM and the DG side of the P pups partially occupy each others territory. In order to keep the exact MM sweet spot I found the best compromise was to reverse the P.


[/quote]

I prefer to keep the P in it's exact sweetspot, and put up with the MM a couple of mm nearer the neck.

I haven't tried the exact arrangement you have but it looks like the D and G strings when soloing the P pickup will sound significantly different to a std Precision. That part of the P pickup looks at least 5cm nearer the neck than std.

Are you a fan of the standard Precision layout ? and do you notice the difference in use when soling the P pickup on your bass (I assume that is yours) compared to a std P ?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1390337355' post='2344281']
I prefer to keep the P in it's exact sweetspot, and put up with the MM a couple of mm nearer the neck.

I haven't tried the exact arrangement you have but it looks like the D and G strings when soloing the P pickup will sound significantly different to a std Precision. That part of the P pickup looks at least 5cm nearer the neck than std.

Are you a fan of the standard Precision layout ? and do you notice the difference in use when soling the P pickup on your bass (I assume that is yours) compared to a std P ?
[/quote]

I have around 30 basses now and wasn't surprised at the last head-count when I discovered that I own more Ps (split and single) than any other configuration. I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy ... although when I build for myself I usually now plop an MFD bucker in the P postion (along with some passive black magic trickery) rather than a regular split P - unless I am going with some other concept.

While keeping the EA section in it's correct (Fender) position and switching the DG to the other side I find very little (if any) change to the inherent P tone. It also somehow seems to make more sense to me to have the treble side of the pup that way round on a bass instrument.

I do find however that the placement of the MM pup has to be exactly where Leo placed it otherwise it just doesn't cut it sonically. It lacks the basic harmonic nuances which make it Stingrayish.... I'm also a major 'ray fanboy.

Yes that bass is mine. It's affectionately know as the the Pingray. That's genuine 'ray pup in there too.

Here's another one of my experiments in reverse P-ism....



This is my current main player and produces a surprisingly vast array of differing tones from it's passive circuit.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1390342220' post='2344394']


I have around 30 basses now and wasn't surprised at the last head-count when I discovered that I own more Ps (split and single) than any other configuration. I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy ... although when I build for myself I usually now plop an MFD bucker in the P postion (along with some passive black magic trickery) rather than a regular split P - unless I am going with some other concept.

While keeping the EA section in it's correct (Fender) position and switching the DG to the other side I find very little (if any) change to the inherent P tone. It also somehow seems to make more sense to me to have the treble side of the pup that way round on a bass instrument.

I do find however that the placement of the MM pup has to be exactly where Leo placed it otherwise it just doesn't cut it sonically. It lacks the basic harmonic nuances which make it Stingrayish.... I'm also a major 'ray fanboy.

Yes that bass is mine. It's affectionately know as the the Pingray. That's genuine 'ray pup in there too.

Here's another one of my experiments in reverse P-ism....



This is my current main player and produces a surprisingly vast array of differing tones from it's passive circuit.
[/quote]

THankyou for your comprehensive answer. I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested to know more about the passive electronics you use, if you are able to share the information. I'm currently going through an "active phase" but am always open to passive ideas if they get the job done without batteries and preamps.

[Si600]

I like the idea of the reverse P with the MM, but it doesn't look like it would fit inside the original scratchplate.

Does anyone know what sort of pickup was in the American Deluxe P? I know the originals were a Bill Lawrence design but are they an MM style or some sort of hooligan Jazz pickup?

Edited January 22, 2014 by Si600

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1390255086' post='2343308']
I have done it in a variety of configurations. I prefer an end-to-end Jazz-style humbucking pickup for the bridge position to eliminate any noise issue when soloing the J, and since the P pickup is just a hair closer to the bridge than the neck position J pickup, I prefer the J bridge pickup in the "70's" bridge position to add that slightest bit more top end when added in to the P. Something like the new Fender S3 noiseless Jazz, DiMarzio Ultra Jazz, Fralin Split Jazz, or similar, is recommended.
[/quote]

Another here that's been around the block with this conundrum and can only recommend wholeheartedly iiipopes advice, but for the marginal sound change to the instrument I would advise thinking about it carefully as Chris_B has pointed out above. If nothing more than the cost implications for a slight change.

Anyway, I have had a great sounding success with the Nordstrand NPJSE4 P/J set that has the split coil jazz pickup and installed it in the 70's position slightly nearer the bridge.

I am reading into your post that it's a 5 string set you need so would have to buy the 5 string versions of what I mention but Bass Direct sell plenty of varieties

[Immo]

I was considering a PJ bass some time ago, but hearing about some balancing issues and other fuss made me think more practically (and aesthetically).
The result is my PP bass.

I consider the effect well worthy as two matched type pickups together deliver a real change of tone and they really do the trick when they work together with volume maxed. Consider that mod also out of vanity - there aren't that many PP's around
If you'd need a wiring diagram, here's mine (A500K pot for tone might be better):