Minimum power needed?

[Greggo]

As our band are now having to pay for rehearsal rooms including amp hire, I'm finding myself in a position where I may need to actually buy an amp (last place rehearsed for free and I had a 350w combo to play with)

The amps I've hired have been woefully underpowered in our new preferred rehearsal room so my questions is this -

Guitarist uses a 50w valve combo, what power would I need to match it at a minimum? (bearing in mind I'll likely be using solid state as cheap as I can afford)

Using PA works a treat as a work around but may not be feasible long term if gigs come up etc (in the past I could borrow the combo from rehearsal room)

[Phil Starr]

I'll be only the first to say this; you don't need to match the guitarist who will have to turn down. Your job is to match the drummer. If you are louder than the drums they will need to be miked up and that means a big PA which you can then use as well. If the guitarist uses 50W turned right up you will all be deafened anyway. Literally.

The other thing is that you don't need to specify a power but a dB level as some speakers are a lot louder than others, Drums chuck out just over 100dB or thereabouts so this is the level you will be aiming at, The loud bits will need to be louder than this average level. If your speakers are an efficient 100db/W you might get away with 100W if they are a relatively inefficient 94db/W you'd need 4x this or 400W.

This doesn't allow for your tone, if you play a 5 string or like to boost the bass then you'll need a bit more power than if you like a nice clanky mid dominated sound.

I'd say go for something in the 400W range and you'll cover most eventualities but 200W will probably be enough, remember that you need to double power to make a noticeable difference.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Phil Starr

[xgsjx]

C'mon Phil!!!!

Everyone knows he needs 2 Ampeg SVTs & 4 8x10 cabs.

Like Phil says, it depends on how loud your band is. I've gigged with a 30 watt 1x12 combo to @ 100 people & I've done the same gig with a 350w 2x10 combo. Both did what I wanted.
I now only use the 350w 2x10 combo in a rather loud band & have no probs with being heard, but my hearing can be shot afterwards (damn geetardz!).

[Conan]

Never get into a volume/power war with a guitarist! It is much easier (and cheaper) to make a guitar loud than it is to make a bass loud! Edited November 28, 2013 by Conan

[chris_b]

How cheap is cheap?

IMO, a bass players should be thinking about what makes him audible to the whole room and sound good in the process.

If you gig then I'd suggest a 350watt head as the minimum and 2 112 cabs or, for a 1 cab solution, a Barefaced Compact.

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1385642662' post='2290548']


[/quote]
So THAT'S how long they are. I'd never have guessed. ;-)

[stingrayPete1977]

Anyone after a good gigging combo right now needs to bag one of the sell off Genz contour amps,crazy cheap for a great gigging amp and you can add an extra cab if needed. Any comparable combo will cost double in the shops.

[Damonjames]

I'd agree with everything mentioned here before. It's not as simple as watts = volume unfortunately. I'd say you will need 300w head as a rough guide, so check out trace Elliot or gallien krueger, you get a head with atleast this for under £300. Cabs will have to suit your circumstances, trace cabs particularly 4x10's are very cheap as they are not in fashion these days. The gk mbe cabs are great value, so a 212 would do also and much lighter.

In a pinch you could also try a trace 410 combo. There is one on fleabay now starting price £300

In the past I have been a bit of a trace snob to be honest, but if I was on a tight budget, it is exactly where I would turn, good sound, great reliability and rock bottom prices

[VTypeV4]

I've gigged with between 60 and 800 watts with a dinky 210 to 810s to multiway bi-amp setps with 10s, 15s and 18s etc.. So as previously suggested, how long is a peice of string..

All of the above +1..

Currently happy with 60-300w with various cabs.

[xgsjx]

I wouldn't entertain the TE 4x10 combo. I had one & it struggles to sound good, let alone get loud.
Like Pete says, the Genz Benz combos are a steal at the mo.

[Lozz196]

For me, so I wouldn`t be pushing the amp I`d look at 300 watts into whichever speaker size required. A good 210 should be fine and as said above, all you need is to be as loud as the drums, then the guitarist has to come up to that volume (ok, was a bit ambitious there, come down to that volume).

300 watts into a good cab should be plenty for most stages - if you need to be louder due to size of venue so does the drummer, so you`d both be looking at going through FOH PA anyway.

[Mikey R]

The trick is to try to get the guitarist to use a 30 watt open backed combo. Loudness issue sorted.

[JTUK]

Ball park, 300/8, 500/4 is the area you should look at, IMO.

But unless you mix the band properly, then you'll just put up a wall of sound.
You want to be able to hear everything, not fight to be heard.

[Japhet]

In my experience, everybody needs to set their level to an un-miked drum kit volume. Therefore the question is, does your pot basher play a Woolworths kit or a full DW set up?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Japhet

[Damonjames]

+1 to playing to the drummer. The trouble is, the stuff I play, most of the drummers I've played with sound like they are building a barn!
Earplugs are a must, my right ear would
Implode after a night stood next to the crash/snare with out it!

[chris_b]

As a bass player you have to lock with the drums (and they have to lock with you) but, sorry, all this "we have to play to the level of the drums" is rubbish.

If your band has a drummer who can't vary his volume fire him and get a drummer who can play properly.

[xgsjx]

Or get your drummer to play with chop sticks

[Paul S]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1385809581' post='2292374']
As a bass player you have to lock with the drums (and they have to lock with you) but, sorry, all this "we have to play to the level of the drums" is rubbish.

If your band has a drummer who can't vary his volume fire him and get a drummer who can play properly.
[/quote]
Actually it makes perfect sense, I just don't think you are reading it the right way. Unless the drummer is using an electric kit the loudest thing acoustically in the rehearsal room and/or on stage is the drums. Irrespective of whether the drummer can vary his playing or not - all that means is that if he can, then everyone can turn down a bit. If he can't, then everyone turns up a bit. But the volume that everyone needs to match is that of the drums. If the guitarist is too loud, tell him to turn down.

[Mikey R]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1385809581' post='2292374']
If your band has a drummer who can't vary his volume fire him and get a drummer who can play properly.
[/quote]

Most drummers dont have that level of self control, especially when the music starts to really kick. From an amateur point of view, finding a drummer is always the limiting factor when starting a band. If we all fired drummers who couldnt play quieter then there would be far fewer bands out there.

[JTUK]

maybe there should be......................... fewer bands out there

[Greggo]

Thanks for responses.

For now I'm going to continue straight to PA through my bass v-amp which seems to be loud enough for now and will look for an amp

As far as cheapness, well I've been looking at ashdown electric blue 180's - seem to be had for around 100 and seem a nice size too. Anyone got any thoughts on them?

[Phil Starr]

Too harsh on drummers guys. The OP asked how much power, and the answer isn't to be louder than the drummer can possibly ever be. The other thing is that the volume control isn't the only way we have of playing louder, we should have dynamics too. I set to the drummer at the beginning of the set and if he plays harder so do I and vice versa. Of course a drummer should use the appropriate dynamics for the song but shouldn't the rest of the band.

[chrismuzz]

300w solid state and a 4x10 will be plenty!

[Lozz196]

When I say you just need to be able to match the drums what I mean is you don`t need any more than what will be slightly louder than the drums at their loudest. Not many drummers play full-on for a whole set - though I`ve known many who`ve tried. But your gear needs to be up to that. Chris is right though, drums can be played quietly but with authority - the drummers that can are usually in demand.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Back to the question, if I may.

My old Trace stack was 130 watts. It was a 1x15 and 2x10.
My current TC BG250 is, rather unsurprisingly, 250 watts, that's into a 15" speaker.

Which one had the capacity for being loudest ?

The one with the Big stack of speakers. 130 watts was more than sufficient to make the speakers do what they had to do. No question about it.
The Trace would have blown the TC clean off the stage. The watts were no more than part of the equation.

Now, having said that.

Is the BG250 loud enough for me on stage ?

Without a doubt.

If I buy a TC 250 watt head and a 2x10 and 2x12 stack, will it be louder than my 1x15 combo.

Yep, it certainly will.

Buy speaker capability, not watts.