xilddx Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360936928' post='1978634'] How do you know when ANYTHING is good? It's like trying to define "taste." [/quote] 3 [mass noun] the ability to discern what is of good quality or of a high aesthetic standard Oxford online dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='Atalante' timestamp='1360933094' post='1978506'] A good musician is not limited in any way. [/quote] By that definition, the only 'good' musicians are virtuoso musicians. Is a bassist who cannot play slap style therefore not capable of being deemed a good bassist? Good is obviously highly subjective, but to me it's all about serving the song, playing with and appropriate groove and feel, leaving space where necessary, having a good tone, and hopefully doing something that surprises me in some way. 30 seconds of flash ain't going to do it, no matter how technically impressive. If a player has a more unusual style it might take a good few songs to get into what they are doing and decide whether I like their playing or not, or I might simply not like the style of music (e.g. thrash metal), in which case I'm never going to like it, but generally after a song or two I can tell if i like someone's playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) There is lots of different kinds of "good " playing , depending on the context and the intent of the music , and not least of all the aesthetic qualities of the final result . I enjoy a lot of players who are not " choppy " players but who I think are extremely capable and crafty musicians , and I like a few chops - orientated players too , but not neccesarilly for their chops . Sometimes less is more , but in some circumstances more is better , too . There is a trend nowadays towards the less -is - more school of thought , but I would say that I have heard as much poor and nondescript minimalist playing as I have heard ill -judged overplaying . Economy is not justification in itself any more than elaboration is ; the final result is what matters . If you[i] really [/i]want to get into how people identify and evaluate what is good bass playing then I would have to say the psychological processes of perception , cognition and empathy are what define how human beings assess and classify any art , including music . We asess how other players are dealing with things we have found difficult ourselves , how much the exceed our own imagination and how much they recognise our own emotions . I would also say that , if you keep an open mind , you can find some very impressive bass playing in some unlikely places . For example , one of the best constructed and most effective bass parts I have ever heard on a record is on Through The Barricades by Spandau Ballet . Edited February 15, 2013 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 A good bassist is one who can slap, but doesn't... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1360933757' post='1978531'] I like less notes sometimes...restraint is as valid a part of a skillset as any other. Cliff Williams is as 'good' as Jaco, Victor, Jonas, whoever, by the simple virtue of the fact that his playing enhances the music of the band he plays with. [/quote] This for good. For not good, I`d say either that you can hear them not locking with the drummer - though this may be that the drummer is bad, not the bassist - or that the bassist plays what isn`t appropriate for the song. Mark King basslines in AC/DC just wouldn`t work, would it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It's a bit like asking 'what is a good car?' Depends whether you want to race round a track, pull a trailer full of horses, go on a family camping holiday etc.... To me, bad bassists are the ones who try to be flash when they can't keep time or have no appreciation of what their role in the band or their place in the mix is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 So why, when there are millions of very tasteful recorded bassists, do we keep talking about and trying to emulate the same few? Is it because technicality is easily recognisable and easy to measure ones own, or another's, ability against? Are we unable to appreciate and learn from nuanced and expressive playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 "We" don't. Some of "you" do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) To me, a good bassist is someone who plays the right notes (Be that the note, the amount of notes, or where those notes are) to fit the song. Whether that's 2 handed tapping (A Wilhelm Scream - The Horse), or just simple root notes with the odd fill thrown in (Dougie from McFly), or even just mirroring the guitar riff note for note (RATM - Killing In The Name). Whether that person is the most technically proficient player on the planet has no bearing IMO. You could do 2 handed tapping in a McFly song but it would likely sound horrible. I find it more impressive to know a person can play like that, but chooses not to as it wouldn't fit the song/band that they're in, than someone who constantly shows off all of their technical skills. Liam [size=3]Note: Everything said is just my opinion, you may hate the bassists/songs mentioned and think they're absolutely sh*te but you're more than welcome to.[/size] Edited February 15, 2013 by LiamPodmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360939704' post='1978713'] So why, when there are millions of very tasteful recorded bassists, do we keep talking about and trying to emulate the same few? Is it because technicality is easily recognisable and easy to measure ones own, or another's, ability against? Are we unable to appreciate and learn from nuanced and expressive playing? [/quote] Good question, and possibly a lot of it is due to how mainstream the artists are at the time when you start out - Bruce Foxton being the biggest influence on my bass-playing, as The Jam were very big when I was learning. However, although he is certainly the biggest influence on my playing, in a band situation I don`t play anything like him, yet listen to me playing on my own and the influence is clear. Edited February 15, 2013 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 personally, I have never seen the point in trying to sound like, or play like, someone else. After all, I'm not someone else, I'm me, so why would I waste my practice time trying to copy someone else, when I could be spending it becoming a better version of me. OT: to me, a 'good' bassist is one who plays what the song needs, rather than what their ego wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360939704' post='1978713'] So why, when there are millions of very tasteful recorded bassists, do we keep talking about and trying to emulate the same few? Is it because technicality is easily recognisable and easy to measure ones own, or another's, ability against? Are we unable to appreciate and learn from nuanced and expressive playing? [/quote] Human nature. There must be millions of excellent actors/musicians/artists/etc out there, but only a few are 'celebs'. Some people just get on with their craft in their own quiet and excellent way, shying away from the limelight and attracting little popular attention, wheareas others love to bask in the whole 'celeb' thing and actively enourage the attention - which is easier than ever in these days of the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Stick it all in a Venn diagram and see what we get For me, I think good players have an element of surprise to their playing. But seeing as I see the bass as mainly suited to ensemble, the good player should also be able make musical choices that don't overtly challenge the context of the ensemble. It's the balance and juxtaposition of these two elements that when done well, makes players interesting and [i]good[/i]. Oh - and making my foot tap helps. Edited February 15, 2013 by bigjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360940750' post='1978735'] Human nature. There must be millions of excellent actors/musicians/artists/etc out there, but only a few are 'celebs'. Some people just get on with their craft in their own quiet and excellent way, shying away from the limelight and attracting little popular attention, wheareas others love to bask in the whole 'celeb' thing and actively enourage the attention - which is easier than ever in these days of the internet. [/quote] Fair comment. But as musicians, aren't we a little more discerning than just listening to the 'celeb' musicians, and draw influence and inspiration from a much more diverse catalogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Asking if musicians are a bit more discerning about such things is a very interesting question. I'd expect musicians, as a group, to be more generally interested in different types of music and, therefore, to listen to a wider variety of music than an average person (perhaps). Thus, by definition, musicians would be drawing their inspiration from a more diverse catalogue. But (and you knew there'd be a but ), does that extra diversity ultimately affect what we like and dislike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudburst Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Ignoring for one moment that there is no answer to the question: Does the bass player: - make the song better? - plant the bassline in your head? - cause you to download the song or buy the album? - make you tap your feet and/or nod your head to the beat? - make you want to play air-bass on public transport when you've got your headphones on? - cause you to want to analyse the bassline and learn it? CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Everybody knows that the best bass player is the one who can play the most notes loudest and for the longest time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) This thread needs more youtube examples! This is one of my favourite basslines: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQnDH9SQ6Sc[/media] He doubles the guitar when that's what's required, and does his own thing when that's what required. Playing something unique with 3 guitars, vocals and a uniquely melodic drummer without it sounding cluttered is an achievement, but he always pulls it off. This another favourite bassline of his for the same reasons: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSrLxpUHUJQ[/media] To me, those two bass lines are better than most of the virtuoso stuff. Edited February 15, 2013 by bobbass4k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360941566' post='1978759'] Fair comment. But as musicians, aren't we a little more discerning than just listening to the 'celeb' musicians, and draw influence and inspiration from a much more diverse catalogue? [/quote] I haven't heard many non-"celeb" bassists that did anything noteworthy (present company excepted of course Nige). I suppose if they did they would be heading towards being a celeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360939704' post='1978713'] So why, when there are millions of very tasteful recorded bassists, do we keep talking about and trying to emulate the same few? Is it because technicality is easily recognisable and easy to measure ones own, or another's, ability against? Are we unable to appreciate and learn from nuanced and expressive playing? [/quote] Puts me in a bit of a funny position that one. I keep seeing the same old names, Jaco, Clarke, Wooten (and a whole pile of others that don't readily spring to mind) and hey, you guys love them and that's just fine by me. However, half the time I've never heard of them and the rest of the time I just don't feel any particular compulsion to go and listen to them. I could sit next to them on the bus and I'd not know who they were. So that has pretty much left me a blank canvas/back of a fag packet to work on. This would probably also be a good time to admit that when I saw the 'Oscar Pistorious charged with murder' thread I thought it was Jaco's brother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1360946889' post='1978873'] This thread needs more youtube examples! This is one of my favourite basslines: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQnDH9SQ6Sc[/media] He doubles the guitar when that's what's required, and does his own thing when that's what required. Playing something unique with 3 guitars, vocals and a uniquely melodic drummer without it sounding cluttered is an achievement, but he always pulls it off. This another favourite bassline of his for the same reasons: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSrLxpUHUJQ[/media] To me, those two bass lines are better than most of the virtuoso stuff. [/quote] BION, I have not heard Oceansize before, I have now, and I am digging it big! Excellent mate. Great bass lines and playing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360952586' post='1978992'] when I saw the 'Oscar Pistorious charged with murder' thread I thought it was Jaco's brother... [/quote] That's just ridiculous, and illustrates the woeful level of ignorance that abounds among the entertainers, whores and clowns that populate this "forum". Besides, everyone knows that Jaco was his [i][b]UNCLE[/b][/i]!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1360953607' post='1979024'] That's just ridiculous, and illustrates the woeful level of ignorance that abounds among the entertainers, whores and clowns that populate this "forum". [/quote] I do [b]NOT[/b] have a woeful level of ignorance. I have highly accomplished level of ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360953931' post='1979036'] I do [b]NOT[/b] have a woeful level of ignorance. I have highly accomplished level of ignorance. [/quote] Yes, the pedant in me noticed that just before I pressed the "submit" button. But then I thought "what the hell..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1360954434' post='1979058'] Yes, the pedant in me noticed that just before I pressed the "submit" button. But then I thought "what the hell..." [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.