BC's new classifieds section - your opinions please

[flyfisher]

I thought the old marketplace was fine as it was.

People who posted without stating a price seemed to generally be fairly new members and were quickly reminded about the rules by one (or more) of the regulars, so I'm surprised to hear it generated a lot of work for the mods.

As for the 36 hour bump rule - would it be (easily) possible to implement a 36-hour lockout so that no posts could be added to a marketplace topic for 36 hours? This might encourage sellers to be more careful about their posting - like including their location in a 'collection only' ad, before having to be asked.

A 36 hour lockout shouldn't stall any buyer iinterest because people could still send a PM to the seller.


As for the subscription thing - I'd expect a marketplace annual subscription would put off a lot of people. Even £20 would be uneconomic for anyone with a single, low price item, like strings, cables and other accessories. Fine for an actual bass or some decent amplification, but overall I reckon it would do more harm than good.

That's not to say some form of funding isn't perfectly reasonable, just not a relatively big annual amount.

[hamfist]

Firstly, I strongly prefer the older for sale forums, rather than the new classifieds for reasons already stated by others.

All the discussion about people paying to advertise here seems to be based around either the fixed yearly fee OR a per-item fee. Each have negatives, so why can't we have [b][u]both[/u][/b] as a system. So people who pay the, say, £20 get a years "free" advertising and those who don't .... have to pay £2 per advert. That way people who advertise only occasionally are not put off by having to pay £20. But those who advertise a lot still feel they are getting a decent deal.

Also, I think the 36hr bump button has a potential negative factor that people have not mentioned. Certain users (often people who only join the forum to sell something, or only occasional visitors) may press the bump button, and then forget about the advert, ignoring it for weeks or months. Unfortunately, their advert would still be continued to be bumped. It surprises me how many people post adverts and then don't access the site again, or maybe not for weeks/months.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1354630690' post='1888377']
I've bleated on too much elsewhere, but I'll put my thoughts here just to keep it all under one roof. :-)

I don't like the new system. They're less visible to experienced users, never mind the newbies who might not know they're there. More importantly, they've been taken out of the flow of the community. They don't drive discussion any more, and given that BC is a discussion forum... this is a shame.

As for the 'problems'...

No thumbnails, excessive bumping, not stating prices, lack of detail in ads... are these [i]really[/i] problems?

The community is pretty good at self-policing, and it's usually sorted pretty quick. I've never noticed it to be a big issue. Yep, the mods have to get involved sometimes, but that's why we - and all other forums - have mods.

I honestly think some members are confused as to the purpose of BC. Unless I'm wrong, it's primarily a discussion forum, not a marketplace to facilitate the buying and selling of bass gear. We should be paying as much for the former as the latter.

I don't buy and sell that much on here, but I'd still pay a few quid a year to help keep the lights on. I'm sure plenty other users would, too. Those that don't want to or can't afford it... don't have to. Maybe do as they do on TalkBass, and restrict avatars & other bits and bobs of functionality (off-topic?) to those that donate?

I'm grateful to Ped & co. for trying to improve things and keep it viable, but I don't think this is the way to do it.
[/quote]

This pretty much sums it up for me; even though I've stuck a toe in the water of buying & selling on here it's not actually transpired. But I do now owe WOT 15 mins of my life for saving me the trouble of all that typing.

[Conan]

The problem, IMO, with the "flat rate selling membership" (whatever it is set at) is that it becomes proportionately more expensive the less stuff you sell.

Some members sell several high-end basses and amps on here every year, so £20 would be a negligible expense for them. Others (like myself or younger members) who only sell low to moderate value items might well think twice before paying a flat fee just for the privilege of advertising items.

It's hard to see how that would benefit the entire community. Maybe we just need more donations? On that note I'm just off to make one!

[Matt P]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1354633259' post='1888416']
All the discussion about people paying to advertise here seems to be based around either the fixed yearly fee OR a per-item fee. Each have negatives, so why can't we have [b][u]both[/u][/b] as a system. So people who pay the, say, £20 get a years "free" advertising and those who don't .... have to pay £2 per advert. That way people who advertise only occasionally are not put off by having to pay £20. But those who advertise a lot still feel they are getting a decent deal.

[/quote]

this is exactly what i've been thinking since my last post, those who sell a lot would make the upfront larger payments, as would those that just wanted to keep the site running because of what it contributes to their lives, those who just want to sell something or who haven't got the cash to hand over in one lump could pay a small listings fee.

the only small thing that would make it better in my opinion would be different fees dependant on which section you were listing in, say £3-4 to list a more valuble item like a bass/cab/amp/upright and say £1 to list in the 'other' section so that things like strings and leads are still worth listing.

Matt

[size=2](edited as the first draft didn't actually make sense!)[/size]

Edited December 4, 2012 by Matt P

[Big_Stu]

There's already a fair bit of "why not this", "why not that", & "that wouldn't work because", which generally means that someone will think whatever system used is unfair. IME it's usually having a tiered system of charging (in any scenario) that creates a feeling of "was it worth it to me personally?"

In that respect (edit: using the KISS theory) I would say that a simple % of the selling price is paid on a sale being made, anyone not forwarding said amount is blocked from future sales until it is. Yes, you may get some who will come on for just one sale & disappear again, but as has been said many times on here, the forum is pretty good at self-policing, so any newbie's aren't going to be trusted upfront if they start pushing a high value sale straight off.

The theory of Ebay having a wider audience, is IMHO, offset by the users of this forum being overwhelmingly more trustworthy than many of the faceless rogues who pop up in the Ebay thread.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Big_Stu

[ped]

Hi guys

More good feedback. Please make sure you look at my last post where I explain why a % fee isn't actually very easy and where I suggest items below a certain cost are free.

£20 was just a comparison to TB, so don't get too hung up on the actual cost yet.

I think it's clear that the new section could be scrapped.

I'll talk to the web guy and see what our options are in terms of 'packages' - Ideally I'd like a single price per advert as you lot suggest, and offer an alternative yearly fee too.

Thanks guys
ped

[woodyratm]

I'll admit - I've been lazy and haven't read this whole thread!

But... I've just had my first proper nosy at the classifieds section. I quite like it, adding a "bump" button would be pretty cool.

My main (and currently only!) issue is that I tend to just hit "New Posts" and read the results (and before anyone says - I know I can select Classifieds in the search criteria) - I like reading the posts without needing to change my search (I don't just read the for sale posts currently, I jump between). If we could get the classifieds incorporated into that type of thing and get rid of the "for sale" section (so not having both) - then I'd be totally happy. I like the idea of prices being added from the get go!

[ped]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1354634341' post='1888436']
a simple % of the selling price is paid on a sale being made, anyone not forwarding said amount is blocked from future sales until it is.
[/quote]

Hi mate

Thanks for this - remember the key is simplicity, though. This would be very difficult to enforce with basic software.

I still like the suggestions thus far of a fee to insert a single ad, or a single fee for unlimited posts a year.

[Wooks79]

How about a subs benefit of 1 days preview on all sales threads before it goes on free full view to all members?

Might help some people grab an elusive piece of kit or bargain?

If say that, plus every sale thread has a £1 insert fee would be a great plan

[ped]

[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1354634728' post='1888446']
I'll admit - I've been lazy and haven't read this whole thread!

But... I've just had my first proper nosy at the classifieds section. I quite like it, adding a "bump" button would be pretty cool.

My main (and currently only!) issue is that I tend to just hit "New Posts" and read the results (and before anyone says - I know I can select Classifieds in the search criteria) - I like reading the posts without needing to change my search (I don't just read the for sale posts currently, I jump between). If we could get the classifieds incorporated into that type of thing and get rid of the "for sale" section (so not having both) - then I'd be totally happy. I like the idea of prices being added from the get go!
[/quote]

Thanks - yeah one of the issues with the classifieds 'module' is that it appears under different criteria in the search. I too use the 'view new posts' as my home page.

[ped]

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1354634830' post='1888448']
How about a subs benefit of 1 days preview on all sales threads before it goes on free full view to all members?

Might help some people grab an elusive piece of kit or bargain?

If say that, plus every sale thread has a £1 insert fee would be a great plan
[/quote]

Again, simplicity is what we need initially. Things like this sound easy but are actually very difficult (and expensive) to maintain and code. Nice idea though

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354634799' post='1888447']
Hi mate

Thanks for this - remember the key is simplicity, though. This would be very difficult to enforce with basic software.[/quote]

I made the assumption that it would be the same procedure as banning people from OT, (for eg.) ........
........though that does have the knock-on effect of also banning the user from several other areas which they may have been able to make useful contributions to.

[ped]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1354635645' post='1888463']
I made the assumption that it would be the same procedure as banning people from OT, (for eg.) ........
........though that does have the knock-on effect of also banning the user from several other areas which they may have been able to make useful contributions to.
[/quote]

Yeah, that would be very hard to keep track of and to moderate. It would also mean we'd have to get involved in every sale and confirm the status of the deal,etc.

Simplicity is the key, I think.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354634936' post='1888450']
Again, simplicity is what we need initially. Things like this sound easy but are actually very difficult (and expensive) to maintain and code. Nice idea though
[/quote]

The main problem with adding features to support good ideas like this is that unless your platform was designed to cope with extension in this way, you can quickly end up with an unmaintainable system that consists more of exceptions than rules. And doing it 'the right way' isn't cheap.

[ped]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354635897' post='1888472']
The main problem with adding features to support good ideas like this is that unless your platform was designed to cope with extension in this way, you can quickly end up with an unmaintainable system that consists more of exceptions than rules. And doing it 'the right way' isn't cheap.
[/quote]

Yeah, precisely. We're limited to some extent by the platform. Even the classifieds add on was a third party 'hook' made by someone to fit into the software. Unless we hire our own person to totally code something from the ground up, these bolt-ons are never going to suit us perfectly. This has been proven in the feedback thus far about the new section.

[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]

[Wooks79]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477']
[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]
[/quote]

Aye.

[Shambo]

I'd say keep the old marketplace because that's what drives the whole forum. Yes you do get the odd one post wonders but I'm willing to wager alot of regular forum users came here just to buy or sell a bass, and then stuck around when they realised there's a helpful community here.

1) Charge a small fee per listing, not annual subs because that will scare the casual user away. I dare say if you do introduce a larger annual sub then some bright spark will open another site without one to fill the gap in the market you've created.
2) Introduce mandatory price and location fields when creating a thread. That's a no brainer.
3) Introduce the 36hr bump button, but no so rigid as to be unable to update your thread before 36 hours are up.

That way we can keep the discussion in the sales threads, the sense of community and self policing and keep the chat about bass flowing.

[Rumple]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477']


[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]
[/quote]

Yup

[discreet]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477'][i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i][/quote]

Sounds good to me.

[v8bass]

Not quite sure how it ll pan out for a cheap / free items / wanteds etc but


[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]


This works best for me

Thanks for listening .. must be a right pain the ar*e

Gary
v8

[Conan]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477']
[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]
[/quote]

If I understand that correctly, yes.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477']
[i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i]
[/quote]

Yep

[Toasted]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354636351' post='1888477'][i][u][b]So do we all like the sound of a single payment for a one off advert and the option of a single yearly payment?[/b][/u][/i][/quote]

I'm confused. Is the point of all this to:

1) raise funds for Basschat (every "solution" involves users spending money that they currently don't)
2) reduce workload for moderators (moaning on about people bumping / not posting a price)
3) provide some sort of "user experience" which we're not currently getting (thumbnails of dubious quality)

Edited December 4, 2012 by Toasted

[ped]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1354639133' post='1888542']


I'm confused. Is the point of all this to:

1) raise funds for Basschat (every "solution" involves users spending money that they currently don't)
2) reduce workload for moderators (moaning on about people bumping / not posting a price)
3) provide some sort of "user experience" which we're not currently getting (thumbnails of dubious quality)
[/quote]

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