BigRedX Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345817476' post='1781962'] I am not " for or against " spending a lot of money on a Fodera if you live in the U.K- if you really want one and you can afford it then get one!- but what is special about them is not unique to Fodera. There are plenty of other basses that play well and sound superlative, and a lot of them cost far less than a third of what a Fodera costs. [/quote] I would argue that what is special about a Fodera is absolutely unique to them. That's why you buy a Fodera over another high-end custom bass. For instance there's no denying that Jon Shuker makes exceptional basses here in the UK, but none of his instruments that I have played have had that special something that would make ME want to buy one. Nothing wrong with the basses, they are just not the right ones for me. That's why I keep repeating that the instruments from custom bass luthiers are not substitutes for each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 [quote name='kevin_lindsay' timestamp='1345816243' post='1781945'] Just as well it wasn't an Anthony Jackson model - $15,000 !!!!!!!!! Aagh!!!!! [/quote] I noticed Dave Swift had one of these made for him and it took years for it to be completed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1345818087' post='1781971'] I would argue that what is special about a Fodera is absolutely unique to them. That's why you buy a Fodera over another high-end custom bass. For instance there's no denying that Jon Shuker makes exceptional basses here in the UK, but none of his instruments that I have played have had that special something that would make ME want to buy one. Nothing wrong with the basses, they are just not the right ones for me. That's why I keep repeating that the instruments from custom bass luthiers are not substitutes for each other. [/quote] I take your point entirely , and I was mindful of what you wrote about each case being unique when I said if you want a Fodera, get one. What I am saying is that the guitar-making skills which define the build quality of Foderas i.e actually making them with real attention to detail and genuine care ( as opposed to just claiming to ) are not the sole domain of Fodera; other builders can do this for you to a comparable level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Just FIO to the neersayers who have not seen the Sept Edition, BGM also review a £300 Musicman Sub Bass as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hopefully BGM are changing things, especially after the positive response their editor gave to the feedback on here. I do feel that magazines like BGM, and also Top Gear (as mentioned above) tend to review expensive luxury basses (and cars) more for the reviewer's own benefit than the readers' benefit. Kinda like a "hey this is a good gig, I just get to play with very expensive toys all day and say how good they are" attitude. More of the £300 SUB bass reviews would be great. Would you buy a £7,000 bass on a magazine review? Or would you spend a day with the luthier/manufacturer instead to make sure it was a worthwhile investment? I believe that a fair amount of bass players are likely to be in the £200-£1200 price range for basses. That's quite a range but still below what I believe to be the average price for all of the basses reviewed in a single issue of a magazine. And I think people are more likely to buy a £300 bass based on a review than they would a considerably more expensive one. Having say that, remember that even if BGM started taking on all of our comments immediately it would take time to set up group tests, write them up and get them published so any new ideas could possibly be 2, maybe 3 issues away from when they were incepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1345818301' post='1781976'] I noticed Dave Swift had one of these made for him and it took years for it to be completed!! [/quote] Yup, that's the one I'm talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB26354 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Current list price for an AJ Presentation with titanium bridge and truss rod is $24,000... Where's that guy that won the £148m on the Euromillions? It'll be loose change for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1345824012' post='1782088'] More of the £300 SUB bass reviews would be great. Would you buy a £7,000 bass on a magazine review? Or would you spend a day with the luthier/manufacturer instead to make sure it was a worthwhile investment? I believe that a fair amount of bass players are likely to be in the £200-£1200 price range for basses. That's quite a range but still below what I believe to be the average price for all of the basses reviewed in a single issue of a magazine. And I think people are more likely to buy a £300 bass based on a review than they would a considerably more expensive one. [/quote] Wouldn't buy a £7k bass on the strength of a magazine review, and I wouldn't buy a £300 one either. However there is a good chance of me being able to find the £300 one in my local musical instrument emporium where I could play iy for myself and then decide if it was worth buying without needing to read a review. For the £7k one there's a good chance that the review is the closest I'd come to seeing one. However if I liked what I saw and read I might want to make the effort to track one down and play. Edited August 24, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1345829226' post='1782216'] Wouldn't buy a £7k bass on the strength of a magazine review, and I wouldn't buy a £300 one either. However there is a good chance of me being able to find the £300 one in my local musical instrument emporium where I could play iy for myself and then decide if it was worth buying without needing to read a review. For the £7k one there's a good chance that the review is the closest I'd come to seeing one. However if I liked what I saw and read I might want to make the effort to track one down and play. [/quote] I believe Bass Gear at Twyford are the UK stockists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 This old chestnut again... Some people want to spend £7,000 on a bass, so Fodera do one for them. Others may want a Fender. Fender make basses at lots of price points so if you want a Fender for a few grand, you can have one. The differences are, in the scheme of things, minimal. Want to be able to say you have a £2k Fender? You can. £500 Fender? Also possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1345874779' post='1782576'] This old chestnut again... [/quote] Yep. Could I also add that - in the grand scheme of things - basses are IMHO exceptionally good value for the enjoyment they produce, whether they cost a few hundred or several thousand. Other instruments can cost vastly more (check out the Upton double bass site that has an advert for a DB that it says is suitable for a progressing student, a bargain at a cool $20k) and other hobbies* are much more expensive. We have had people on the site telling us how much they spend on archery or stock car racing and this makes even a Fodera look like small change! Its all relative init? * apart from meditation! Edited August 25, 2012 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin8708 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I agree with Clarky , relative to other instruments , basses are dirt cheap . Just sold an Alleva Coppola back to Happy jack for £2k to fund getting a better classical guitar . " Student " models are found around the £2000 to £3000 mark , Luthier built are about £5000 and a Greg Smallman (the Fodera equivilant ? ) are £20 000 to £25 000. I definately would not class the Alleva as a student model bass . Edited August 25, 2012 by martin8708 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 [quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1345877877' post='1782590'] I agree with Clarky , relative to other instruments , basses are dirt cheap . Just sold an Alleva Coppola back to Happy jack for £2 to fund getting a better classical guitar . [/quote] I'll give you £4 for it HJ :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345818610' post='1781985'] I take your point entirely , and I was mindful of what you wrote about each case being unique when I said if you want a Fodera, get one. What I am saying is that the guitar-making skills which define the build quality of Foderas i.e actually making them with real attention to detail and genuine care ( as opposed to just claiming to ) are not the sole domain of Fodera; other builders can do this for you to a comparable level. [/quote] IMO those qualities are the least important thing because on a custom instrument they should come as standard. What you need to be looking for is that special something that sets the instruments of one luthier apart from another and speaks to you as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Here's the thing: beans on toast cooked by me = average run of the mill, tasty snack Beans in toast cooked by Heston Blumenthal = hugely expensive designer food... With Fodera you are paying for the chef's name even if the ingredients are the same as used in any other 'dish' - though what a great chef can do with simple ingredients, or arguably the best ingredients, is, in theory, something really special. At the end of the day I've played lots of Foderas over the years - some were amazing some were ok - I wouldn't pay 7K for any of them - end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Bottom line is Fodera have been going since 1983. If their instruments didn't sell at their price point, they wouldn't exist any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 [quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1345877877' post='1782590'] I agree with Clarky , relative to other instruments , basses are dirt cheap . Just sold an Alleva Coppola back to Happy jack for £2 to fund getting a better classical guitar . I definately would not class the Alleva as a student model bass . [/quote] Would you mind if I showed this to Mrs. Happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1345882865' post='1782645'] IMO those qualities are the least important thing because on a custom instrument they should come as standard. What you need to be looking for is that special something that sets the instruments of one luthier apart from another and speaks to you as a player. [/quote] My experience is that you cannot take it for granted that those fundamental things will be done to the highest level on a "custom " instrument. Maybe they should come as standard, but in reality that is not neccesarily the case. Part of what many players find so seductive about Fodera basses is that those things have been done properly, and when they actually try a Fodera in their hands the bass is so effortless to play that it makes a lasting impression. Edited August 25, 2012 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I've seen these basses get more and more popular over the past year or so. They are clearly the market leaders in absolute top of the line quality and attention to detail, there is no doubt about that. I do actually like some of their body designs, and the dovetail neck joint is stunning and that's only in pictures. Would I buy one? Even if I had the money right now? Seriously doubt it. I haven't heard them 'live' but the demo's (and this includes their recent experiment between the neck joints on three identical basses) leave me a little 'bored' with the tone. It doesn't stand out. It doesn't sound unique to me. The other thing I cannot get on with, aesthetically, is a Ying Yang used on a bass. It just looks tacky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1345891114' post='1782776'] Bottom line is Fodera have been going since 1983. If their instruments didn't sell at their price point, they wouldn't exist any more. [/quote] unless they were laundering money for organised crime, £7K through the till - small change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1345875472' post='1782577'] Yep. Could I also add that - in the grand scheme of things - basses are IMHO exceptionally good value for the enjoyment they produce, whether they cost a few hundred or several thousand. Other instruments can cost vastly more (check out the Upton double bass site that has an advert for a DB that it says is suitable for a progressing student, a bargain at a cool $20k) and other hobbies* are much more expensive. We have had people on the site telling us how much they spend on archery or stock car racing and this makes even a Fodera look like small change! Its all relative init? * apart from meditation! [/quote] This is the best point I have read in a long time, and has really given me something to think about. ( And even cheered me up a bit!) When you think about it, playing the bass is relatively inexpensive ( I'm not sure "cheap" would be the right word), even when you compare it to playing the drums; look at the cost of a pro-level kit with cymbals and accessories and the price of a good bass and amp look fairly modest by comparison. Also, unlike most other hobbies, you can usually get some of your money back out of it too; the gear has a secondhand value and sometimes you can even get paid for playing. Edited August 25, 2012 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkypenguin Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Could you not argue that the review section of BGM is there, in part, to look at gear that's hard to come by, as opposed to gear most stores will have to test for yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 [quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1345904809' post='1782972'] Could you not argue that the review section of BGM is there, in part, to look at gear that's hard to come by, as opposed to gear most stores will have to test for yourself? [/quote] Hmm, that's a fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I've played that Fodera, it's stunning. In fact I've been frighteningly close to buying it a few times The first time I saw it there was some bloke called Victor Wooten playing it. He liked it so much he promptly ordered one built to the same specs (it has a custom neck profile modelled on a '64 Jazz owned by Joey Lauricella plus the Seymour Duncan dual coils as opposed to the EMG PJ that he usually has). He has to pay for his basses and wait in line just like anyone else as well. As for the age old argument that seems to pop up here every few months that Fodera is all about marketing and that they are ludicrously over-priced, well, I think it's simply not true. I can't ever remember a single piece of 'marketing' by Fodera themselves. They attend winter NAMM and sometimes Bass Player Live but other than that they spend all their time in the workshop. They work long hours in a dusty shop with no air con. None of the partners appear to be dripping with cash and each of them is in the shop all the time with just the odd short holiday. Each bass is made with total dedication and a great passion for their work. All of the partners are really easy to talk to and actually quite humble about their reputation. In fact Vinnie Fodera hardly ever talks to the press in the States and never attends the trade shows and Joey is still a gigging bassist who plays in NYC every week. One of the reasons they charge a lot is because they are a 'proper' company that looks after its staff. They bring in apprentice builders and train them meticulously, all their staff earn a decent basic wage and they provide full health care and support as well. Everything is hand made in New York as well which is not exactly the cheapest place on earth. Are their basses expensive, yes. Are they fabulously well made, yes. Do their owners rave about them and love them so much that they often end up owning two or more, yes. Are Vinnie, Joey and Jason nasty money-grubbing horrible individuals, absolutely not - nothing could be further from the truth. In terms of BGM writing reviews of the very best basses available then I totally applaud them. Personally I have little or no interest in yet another review of a cheap Fender or Musicman clone. Ok, I'll get me coat. . . Well, either that or I'm off to my little study to play a Fodera or three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) You've hit the nail on the head when you say that Foderas' are not overpriced when you look at the time and skill which goes into making each one. These are basses that are genuinely craftsman -built, not just pretending to be so like some others I could mention. Whether ther are "worth the money" as is so often the topic of conversation, depends on if you like Foderas or not. If you don't like them that much, no one is forcing you to buy one. In fact, it's quite hard to buy one when you do want one and you've got the money! ( Two year waiting list ect.) I have considered Foderas in the past but they are not really that appealing to me nowadays , largely because I am already happy with what I have got. I can however ,see Foderas' huge appeal to certain styles of players and in the right hands the sound of these basses can be nothing short of sublime. Check out the solo starting at 4:40 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVklZUQmhfI[/media] Edited August 25, 2012 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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