I have changed so much from my humble beginnings

[charic]

If you start to get involved in keys then you will see that the G major scale has 1 sharp in it (F#), so this means you can play any note out of... G,A,B,C,D,E,F#,G

There's guys who know a LOT more about this than I do though and sometimes you SHOULDN'T be able to play certain notes but because of context you can.

If I'm just jamming with a guitarist I tend to look at what he's playing and just work it out from there. If I hit a duff note, I'll try not to hit it again

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1341320504' post='1716928']
Personally, reading it, I think you're suffering from [i]Basschatitis - [/i]it's a condition, often foreshadowed by symptoms around feelings of inadequacy, as users bump into other users, who have played [i]longer, [/i]who know [i]more[/i], and who have [i]read some books[/i], which were very f***ing boring.

A modest man can succumb quickly to this condition: he can start reading some very boring books, as both means and an end; he can start talking about want to become one with the instrument; and often be found musing over obscure musical frameworks.

The only known cure is to go and have some fun.

Because that's what it's all about. Not fretw***ing; not reading a book on theory; not listening to someone yack on about how they supported a guy who once tuned Jaco's bass and had a 5hr bass solo in his set. Just, plain and simply, about having fun and [i]the pleasure inherent in the enjoyment of things[/i].

If you don't like the bass lines: write some more fun ones.

If you don't like the band: find a more fun one.

[/quote]

Yep....Or forumitis anyway.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1341320536' post='1716929']
I think most self taught people go through the "bloody hell I can't play this, bloody hell I can and I'm brilliant, bloody hell actually I'm useless" cycle all through their playing career

Bass playing is a journey and there's no right or wrong speed to go at or right path to take;

[/quote]

And Yep....

[fumps]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1341324873' post='1717034']
What you can get away with playing takes bit more into account than just the current chord being played...

Although if you want to play it safe then.. look at the notes that are being played on the guitar (this is how I learned).

Standard G on guitar is

String (Fret) /Note

E (3) / G, A(2) / B, D(0) / D, G(0) / G, B(0) / B,E(3) /G

So without knowing anything about keys at this point we know G, B and D will fit with a G chord.
[/quote]

Ok right
Ya see I do think Basschat should have a Bass beginners section !

So G,B & D all make up the "G chord" so any of these notes would sound ok & am I right in saying that anything that is not those three would sound poop ? or can you play anything in the G major scale ? and that is ok ?

We should have a BC you ask questions forum

Edited July 3, 2012 by fumps

[seashell]

Bilbo will be along in a minute to convince you to try playing some jazz....

[charic]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341325392' post='1717050']
Ok right
Ya see I do think Basschat should have a Bass beginners section !

So G,B & D all make up the "G chord" so any of these notes would sound ok & am I right in saying that anything that is not those three would sound poop ? or can you play anything in the G major scale ? and that is ok ?

We should have a BC you ask questions forum
[/quote]

Technically speaking you can get away with anything in the G major scale with that chord, things get a little bit more tricky/interesting once you introduce a second chord

Sticking to just the played notes of the guitar is just a "sure fire" way of not hitting a duff note

[KingBollock]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341324114' post='1717018']
I'm glad you said that, being a DJ has taught me loads about timing & attitude towards music. It has been a big influence to me coming back to Bass.

There are so many terms & stuff that is talked about on this forum I have literally no idea what it means, For instance I have no idea what a pentatonic scale is or a why the different scales have names that differentiates them from a normal scale.....if there is a normal scale.

Here is how little my knowladge goes (gulp): if a dude plays a chord to me (Say for instance G) I know I can play G but I have no idea what other notes go with that chord.....I literally don't know.......I mean can you play anything ? .......say can i play G then D or would that sound wrong .......right now if someone says play G i'll just pump that note till the chord change. But i've seen other bass players play G.....then a whole lot more creating their own grooved bass lines that sound like a tune all of it's own.....how do they do that ? how do they know what to play ?

this is all that I want to know, then I can stop this weird self doubt I am going through i suppose
[/quote]
I'm exactly the same, in fact some of my story isn't all that different to yours. I started in my first proper band when I was 13. When I was 17 I was in a band that I absolutely adored, every week, at rehearsals, I had the time of my life. Unfortunately, my time at home was hellish and in the end I had to disappear, which meant leaving my band behind. I haven't been in a band since. I've never had proper lessons, I know no theory. Embarrassingly, apart from a few obvious ones I don't even know the notes on the fretboard. Not playing with other people has made me a bit lax when it comes to learning theory, and I also take medications that make my short term memory shockingly bad, so it gets very frustrating, so it's difficult to see the point in struggling so much. Whenever I talk about this stuff someone will always comes along and says "Well learn then! There's tons of stuff on the internet, you've no excuse!". I wish it were that easy. I've been trying to get into chordal stuff lately but everywhere I go it is always assumed that you already know all the notes in every chord, and I don't, not at all. Why can't they show me the tab too, just to give me an idea? I would love to be able to sit down with someone patient and talk about it, have them show me what they mean.
When we moved to Wales, about four years ago, I went into the local Guitar shop, and we got talking. During our conversation I must have given him the wrong idea because he said "You're obviously a musician." and before I could explain that I was no such thing, that I know no theory, a lad came in for his lesson and I left with him inviting me to a weekly jam they have at the shop. I haven't had the guts to go back since.
I would love to play with people again, but I would be fine with chugging along. I want to play something heavy, to really go for it. But I don't have any ambitions to take it anywhere, I don't care about playing live, unless it's to a party full of mates, I don't want to make any money doing it, I don't care if it never got out of the garage, I just want to have a bit of fun with other people playing the same music. But who the hell would want someone like that? And I am cripplingly shy, too. I have no hope.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a ramble.

Edited July 3, 2012 by KingBollock

[skankdelvar]

Good on yer, Fumps!

Best way of addressing a problem is identifying it, assessing the causes and seeking the information necessary to achieve a solution. Most of us never get beyond the "I'm [i]so [/i]pissed off" stage, so all credit to you for taking up the challenge in such a constructive fashion.

Scales and the like can be a bit of a nightmare, but a bit of 'back to basics' research with your bass in your hand and you should be right as ninepence.

[sarah thomas]

Fumps, you say you're dyslexic. Nobody could possibly tell from your posts, so it's clear that you have the drive, will and commitment to overcome many an obstacle. So, I suggest you set to and learn chord tones. The reason that the notes B and D sound good with a G chord is that they are chord tones of G. G is note one, or the root note, B is the third note and D is the fifth. Chord tones are more fundamental to bass lines than scale notes. Take your major chords and learn the root, third and fifth. Internalise this knowledge - I expect you're pretty good at that as most dyslexics develop that ability in order to get by. Then move onto your minor chords, which should be easy if you've done the major chord tones thoroughly, as you're just flatttening the third, eg for G minor, the chord tones will be G, Bb and D.

This goes on and on, utilising 7ths, 9ths, 11ths but I reckon if you get major triads (the root, third and fifth) and minor triads under your fingertips then you'll be in a very strong position to create solid bass lines for any type of music. Good luck!

[Mornats]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341320793' post='1716937']
I like different things for different moods. it all depends with me. i have become a lover of all kinds of music so the idea of staying with one style makes me feel like I'm trapped......if that makes sense ?!?!
[/quote]

Mate, that sounds like an inspiring musical mish-mash just waiting to happen! Bring other styles into the songs in the setlist and make something really interesting.

My bass background is similar in some respects to yours. Started when I was 16 or so, just learnt some songs, joined a band at uni, just learnt the songs and played them (but with only a couple of gigs, nothing great although it certainly felt great playing live). Then I stopped when I was about 21. Roll on to 2 years ago when I was 35 and out of the blue I picked up a bass again. Learnta few songs, played them then thought "ok, I played a song but no one heard it". So I wasn't really getting anything out of it. Then a mate at work got me into recording my own stuff which I said I just couldn't do as I no zero music theory.

Anyhoo, I got a book (Bass for Dummies - actually a great book, I highly recommend it) and learnt the single most important thing (for me) about music theory. It's been mentioned above already but it's basically, if a chord is being played, you can play any of the notes in that chord in pretty much any order. You mainly want to start or end with the root note (the C# in a C# chord). We're lucky as bass players as each chord is just a shape on the fretboard and you can use the same shape anywhere. I know the major chord (no idea what type of major) and the minor pentatonic (because a lot of rock and metal are based on that) chord shapes. And that's it. All of the stuff in my soundcloud link in my sig were written andplayed by me with only that knowledge. It was a massive lightbulb moment for me.

This is a great website that shows you visually what the chord shapes are: [url="http://www.cyberfretbass.com/scales/index.php"]http://www.cyberfretbass.com/scales/index.php[/url], and in particular: [url="http://www.cyberfretbass.com/scales/basic/index.php"]http://www.cyberfretbass.com/scales/basic/index.php[/url]. I've tried learning more but what little I know has worked so far for me.

I know for a fact that you (and I, and others) aren't alone in not knowing much, if any music theory. I saw something on Sky Arts where Kasabian's guitarist was saying he doesn't know any music theory but knows what fits the stuff he's hearing. Also, I saw a video about Flea where he said he doesn't know the type of chords or scales he's playing, he just knows what sounds good.

Finally, here's something interesting that I heard. My mate's sister is a classical music tutor. She's got some of the highest grade qualifications in music and she can't listen to a lot of music now as she always tries to examine it. In a similar fashion, I'm actually hesitant to learn more theory as my lack of knowledge is helping me explore and try things that I wouldn't think of it I just tried to fit everything into an established theory.

[fumps]

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1341328386' post='1717120']
When we moved to Wales, about four years ago, I went into the local Guitar shop, and we got talking. During our conversation I must have given him the wrong idea because he said "You're obviously a musician." and before I could explain that I was no such thing, that I know no theory, a lad came in for his lesson and I left with him inviting me to a weekly jam they have at the shop. I haven't had the guts to go back since.
I would love to play with people again, but I would be fine with chugging along. I want to play something heavy, to really go for it. But I don't have any ambitions to take it anywhere, I don't care about playing live, unless it's to a party full of mates, I don't want to make any money doing it, I don't care if it never got out of the garage, I just want to have a bit of fun with other people playing the same music. But who the hell would want someone like that? And I am cripplingly shy, too. I have no hope.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a ramble.
[/quote]
KB- thank you for your honesty I really appreciate this post, It is mate it's difficult to learn once you have gone a certain direction. I never really got into music because I wanted to be in a band, I decided I wanted to learn Guitar when I was 18. none of my family had ever been able to play anything remotely tuneful.....(apart from my sister once learned to torture a violin at primary school.) **
So i had a go but realised i was horrible at it.....my heart has never been in guitar but i at least gave it a go. then randomly someone let me have a play on a 3/4 knackered old bass & i was hooked.
I bought my first bass & a few weeks later i bumped into the lead guitarist of the band i was talking about earlier.
In my life bands kind of happen i've never had a chance to choose my life.

KB- never expect that no one would want you in a band, it's what you can offer is the prize of the effort people make with you.


[size=3]**Ho yes sorry before this was my first attempt at playing a instrument at primary school (True story) I was given a triangle to play at a school parents evening
Yes and guess what ? i got it wrong....I was supposed to hit the triangle three times....easy.....no...you hit it once, it spins......i miss the two other times go bright red & never ever tried another instrument again.[/size]

Edited July 3, 2012 by fumps

[BottomE]

You've done the hardest bit - identifying the issue. There are some great books - teachers - internet resources (Theory section on here). Take it slowly - learn one thing per day and practice it. Theres a lot of theory to accumulate but you can take as much or as little as you want as fast or slowly as you want to. You might really enjoy it and these skills are transferable onto other instruments if the desire takes you. C Major on the piano is the exact same notes as C Major on the bass, sax, guitar etc

[WurzelHedghog]

I started playing bass in exactly the same way as you, the first time was banging away endless amounts of open E in a metal band at their weekly rehearals following a drunken conversation a couple of days before. I learnt how to blag my way through their setlist and am certain that what I played was nothing like the original recordings but it fitted. A few books were purchased and a couple of chapters read before they were put down for being too boring, endless internet searches for sites giving free bass lessons were made and some knowledge was gained. 3 years late my style of play has change totally and I had my first lesson about 8 weeks ago. This has led to more melodic noodling around. And all this started on the wrong side of 40. Confidence has been a major stumbling block at times with a big fear of band mates thinking that I'm not really a musician and just someone who is blagging it - but that is only MY perception.

The reason for sharing this is so that you know that there are others of us in the bass playing community who struggle and sometimes it feels like pushing water uphill but keep at it. Yes it does get demoralising at times but all the hard work does eventually pay off.

[mushers]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341322234' post='1716983']
Cheers guys some interesting comments & views......Gust0o I don't ever disregard peoples views especially if they make me laugh.

In a way I would love just to sit with a teacher & ask him questions, no playing just questions.......some of them would be mind numbingly dumb, some would probably be complex but I have scowered the books I have & just cant find the answers to my questions.

Music (To me) is a awesome Yin-Yan puzzle playing music is fun, hilarious, creative & beautiful, the dark side is the bewildering black lake of confusing hieroglyphs that is the theory behind it all........I will never truly understand the laws that I think exist in music but a little understanding would be useful .....as I realise I know bugger all.

I get what you all say here......i need to get out of my comfort zone. i need to bloody wake up to myself a bit & realise that music is not something to be feared.


maybe [b]this[/b] is what i was hoping to hear lol
[/quote]
i was self taught for about 12 years but started to feel a bit frustrated so started some lessons, best move i ever made i generaly have a few months of lessons and quit for a while.
some of these lessons are just question and answer sessions i can read a book about the same stuff but for some reason it just doesnt sink in, im sure my teacher thinks im mad every time i go back to him i ask to learn a new style his eyes light up when i asked him about jazz
still no pro but my understanding is now bigger and wider and i have no fear of different styles

[Dad3353]

Good evening, Fumps...

Such is the way with paradoxes; your story is unique (to yourself...) and universal (we're all exactly the same...). I find it reassuring that your interests and tastes have developed over the years. Maturity, experience, sign precursor of old age..? All of these, and more.
There are no judges, other than ourselves. There is no goal other than those we set ourselves (and can modify at will...). I suspect (maybe there's been a poll on this; can't be ***** to look...) that more than half of the members here are amateur hobbyists, playing at home or in local 'fun' bands as a week-end recreation. Things can be viewed differently for those harbouring 'pro' status', and more power to their elbows; the bulk of playing music is for enjoyment. This includes the satisfaction of studies bringing (slowly, never-ending and piecemeal...) enlightenment, the pleasure of 'tooling around' only to stumble across a line, lick or tune which brings a smile to one's partner, the tingle of eager anticipation when a new method book is ordered, or an outing to play is programmed, or a buddy is to drop by for a 'jam & beer' session.
Your OP has a pleasant positive tone to it; do your stuff, lad, in your own way, in your own time. When (or if...) you become reconciled once again to the endless drone of the open low 'E', it won't be regression to a nostalgic past, but another stepping stone. There is never any 'going back', only onward and upward (or I've mis-read Einstein..!).
[i]Aw, what's the point..? I'll stop here. You wouldn't want to listen to a drummer, anyway.[/i]

[fumps]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1341360828' post='1717858']

[i]Aw, what's the point..? I'll stop here. You wouldn't want to listen to a drummer, anyway.[/i]
[/quote]
Don't tell anyone else on here but I do get on with & respect the drummer's opinion at all times, my first port of call with any band is to befriend the drummer and stick with him, to know a drummers personality is to be solid as part of the rhythm section.

Thank you for your post I do agree with what you say, I guess my OP was to say that I have changed so much & I had no idea how much until I went & re-visited my past with the band. My mind is certainly made up in regards to not re-joining the band, it's just not what I want to do any more.
I want to develop my playing into a style that I'm already doing now i just have to be able to make it work better.

I hope some people who have posted on here have taken something constructive from this thread as I have taken lots of inspiration & even the kick in the a*se that I think I needed & for that I want to thank everyone who have taken part & posted on this thread, it's been brilliant cheers guys.

I was talking to my other half about this thread last night & she was asking me very direct questions about what I wanted to learn & achieve, the answers I gave her is that I want to be able to understand enough to develop my style & understand what I am playing. I just wish I was able to put it so plainly before.......this thread has made me understand this & now I know what I want to learn to take myself forward.

I will start a learning regime, the notes on the neck & scales........it's a bit ABC but you have to start somewhere lol

[charic]

Just remember you don't have to be able to memorise the lot! You can look everything up on the internet when you need it so don't get frustrated if you forget pieces here and there

[Clarky]

Interesting read. I am 48 and have now been playing in bands solidly for 7 years, starting in a death/thrash band, then a punk band, then a voodoo blues band (when I switched to double bass) and now my folk/country/flamenco outfit (still playing double bass). Throughout all of this I have struggled badly with any thing theoretical. I play patterns and learn bass lines by position on the board. I really have very little understanding of what I am playing. Thankfully I am quite good at learning lines and patterns and reasonably dexterous. However, I would dearly love to actualy understand what it is that I am doing on a bass. Reading BassChat does give me some major feelings of inadequacy as other BC'ers reel off theory, whether basic or complex, and I just don't get it. And I have yet to find a book that makes it any simpler.

[charic]

The one thing I will say for damn near anyone, if you really want to get stuck in with any kind of theory owning a keyboard will really help. It's much easier to visualise

[fumps]

Yes Clarky I totally agree.
I'm very hands on, give me a book on something I HAVE to learn & I just get lost (I end up reading the first 5 pages & then spend the rest of my time looking through it trying to find the answer to a question that has come to mind from those pages) sit with me & show me what your talking about & I'm instantly there.

I also have made the leap to upright & love the free feeling that it gives you, but I want to be able to jam adequately & be more available for one off gigs & even to be able to go to open jam nights to learn from musicians.

I'm also yearning for the simple book for my simple brain lol......maybe one day someone would bring this out & help us all

[charic]

Any questions feel free to drop me a line, or even start a thread and link me and I'll follow it

Maybe we can turn it into a book later

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1341388488' post='1717981']
Interesting read. I am 48 and have now been playing in bands solidly for 7 years, starting in a death/thrash band, then a punk band, then a voodoo blues band (when I switched to double bass) and now my folk/country/flamenco outfit (still playing double bass). Throughout all of this I have struggled badly with any thing theoretical. I play patterns and learn bass lines by position on the board. I really have very little understanding of what I am playing. Thankfully I am quite good at learning lines and patterns and reasonably dexterous. However, I would dearly love to actualy understand what it is that I am doing on a bass. Reading BassChat does give me some major feelings of inadequacy as other BC'ers reel off theory, whether basic or complex, and I just don't get it. And I have yet to find a book that makes it any simpler.
[/quote]

I'm in the pretty much the same boat Mr C. 48 and I used to get really hung up about not knowing any theory.
To be honest I'm not bothered now. I can hear when a note sounds wrong so I don't play those ones.
I've also just come to terms with not trying to over play. If for instance a chorus sounds better with me just bashing out the roots I will do it happily now.
I'd rather spend the time I'd need to learn theory writing lyrics, getting gigs or doing band admin.

That said if I was 28 now I'd probably be up for a bit of learnin'.
But then again I'd probably do what I did when I was 28 so that wouldn't work.

[karlfer]

No theory here I'm afraid. Started off metal, as I matured got into Jaco, got the tablature (quiet Bilbo please ) and learned so much doing it all very very slowly.
More recently using Youtube to learn some of Mr. Sheehan's stuff. I will never be a patch on either of those chaps, but everything learned is a bit more enjoyment.
Band I'm in are all 50's coffin dodgers,set up to gig once a fortnight, we will actually do over 40 gigs this year. I don't need to be Billy Sheehan to play live.
Take your time and enjoy every little success.
My greatest bass lesson learned? How to slide out of a bum note and get away with it. Mind, I've had a lot of practice with that .
Fumps, I will guarentee you are a lot better than you think mate,
all the best,
Karl.

[Mr. Foxen]

Get Victor Wooten's Book the Music Lesson, its not technical at all, a pretty easy read and the most frustrating thing is that the 'characters' can kind of be bell-ends. But the stuff in there is pretty good.

[Clarky]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1341397800' post='1718197']
Get Victor Wooten's Book the Music Lesson, its not technical at all, a pretty easy read and the most frustrating thing is that the 'characters' can kind of be bell-ends. But the stuff in there is pretty good.
[/quote]
Well I'll try anything. Just ordered it. Cheers Mr F