I have changed so much from my humble beginnings

[fumps]

Here is my musical history, regret at my past arrogance & the way that your past jumps up to bite you.


I used to be in a early Metallica style thrash metal band, I joined them by sheer luck one day after I had only owned my first bass for a few weeks, I didn't know what I was doing but was determined to learn what I had to just to get in a band. It was mainly well chosen covers with the odd original but through hard work and pure guts we managed to get a fair few gigs and even started headlining a few events. The down side to the momentum was that fact that I only played what I was supposed to & never really learned what I was doing. The band got loads of attention in the metal scene & we were known, I started to feel like I was a musical numpty, although I could play some very fast bass lines finger style (This was something that made me well known back then) I didn't know how to jam with anyone & I would often dodge offers to jam with people. This was my well kept secret. the fingers were nimble but the useless lack of knowladge was like my handicap. frustration took me too far one day & i made my excuses and left the band. I went my own way and after a few failed attempts at getting various projects off the ground I left a band that was riddled with ego's & strangely ended up being a DJ in the underground Acid techno scene never to join a band again.

Then, out of the blue I was contacted by the old band because they had recently lost their bassist so they wanted to know if I wanted to re-join them. When I was in the band we used to have a real good laugh & gigged loads, Looking back I realise now that I was really the main driving force behind the band & took them a long way, after I left they lost momentum but they were happy as they were so no big issues there.

Anyway during the Jubilee break I was booked in to meet them for a 1-2 hour jamming session & everyone was really buzzing about the old line up getting back together, I learned the new set list, my other half was very excited as she has never seen me play in a band (I ducked out of being in bands & it's her gentle persuasion has got me to pick up the bass again). So everything was set to be explosive.

Then we played, and I hated every minuet of it, I'm not disrespecting rock bass players in anyway with what I'm saying here (If it wasn't for thrash & rock music I would have never picked up an instrument, I still love the music, but I don't play it any-more) but I was bored, bored by playing open E for what seems like an hour, bored by the same basic bass lines that I used to hammer out when I was 19.........After the session the guys were full of adrenalin & asked if we wanted to go for a few pints and the conversation was buzzing about where we are going from here, I felt like I was not being honest and my own feelings of guilt was doing my head in. After we left the pub my other half guessed what was happening with me as she could see I wasn't happy (She can read me like a book).

I realised a long time ago that I never learned anything of real value about theory or even took bass lessons, because of this I am a very restricted bass player & really struggle to understand some of the basic fundamental things that (I know) most people take for granted. I have slowly but surely started filling in the blank spots of my own ignorance I have never filled in my youth by reading books and trying to correct what I have missed out on, a task which I am finding really difficult as I'm dyslexic (This is not an excuse but it's hard work reading something 5 times to realise I know this bit) so it's a frustratingly slow going.

I'm not really expecting anything of value from this thread but I just wanted to speak about my utter disappointment in myself and lack of forward motion, I feel trapped in the fact that if I go backwards (I feel like re-joining the band I mentioned earlier is backwards motion for some reason)I will never fully understand the beauty of the instrument I love so much & I feel like I have abused for so long, by not understanding the capabilities of the Bass I am letting myself down & will never be able to play in the way i want.
Don't get me wrong when I play some of the stuff I write myself, I like what I hear (Hayley often says I play classical guitar-like style on 4 string bass). I play a very gentle styles & I feel like i've found a style I love playing.....but I don't know the notes or even mechanics of what I'm playing to make the style of any use to anyone. The frustration I'm feeling is a strange sensation......it's like I have to go back & learn to walk even though I can run.

At the age of 36 I'm now a willing student in musical lore. I Have been blinkered for too long & now I think it's time to really do the right thing by the instrument that has been amazingly kind to me. And I hope this is the start of better times........as hope is everyone best mate.

If anyone actually reads this, I just want to thank you for your time in actually taking an interest in my ramblings, please don't read the above as a negative statement, it's just what is on my mind at the moment. Thank you for letting me think aloud

[steve-soar]

A similar thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I got back with an old singer/guitarist, auditioned a couple of drummers and I jumped ship because the stuff we were doing wasn't what I was about anymore. I play a similar style to how you have described and I am looking for something a bit more experimental.

[charic]

Well done on having the drive to work at it mate, understanding the instrument as thoroughly as you state isn't a prerequisite for playing though. I don't think you should give up playing with other people just because you don't yet understand the inner mechanics (if you do this then you won't have anyone to test this with).

I think what you really need is a new driving force (new band) but one that you REALLY want to get into, a style of music that YOU want to play.

The thrash metal doesn't work for you anymore, fair enough but surely there's other styles that you would like to play?

[fumps]

Yeh I have gone the exact opposite to what I used to be. strange how life changes you

[Gust0o]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341319860' post='1716908']
Then we played, and I hated every minuet of it, I'm not disrespecting rock bass players in anyway with what I'm saying here (If it wasn't for thrash & rock music I would have never picked up an instrument, I still love the music, but I don't play it any-more) but I was bored, bored by playing open E for what seems like an hour, bored by the same basic bass lines that I used to hammer out when I was 19.........
[/quote]

They're [i]your [/i]bass lines, chief. If you don't like 'em, change 'em. The genre is just an excuse - but whether you're painting your funk fingernails, or sewing on some sturdy elbow patches for the local jazz festival down the Dog & Badger, you own the lines; compromise, by all means, but don't settle for crap.

Personally, reading it, I think you're suffering from [i]Basschatitis - [/i]it's a condition, often foreshadowed by symptoms around feelings of inadequacy, as users bump into other users, who have played [i]longer, [/i]who know [i]more[/i], and who have [i]read some books[/i], which were very f***ing boring.

A modest man can succumb quickly to this condition: he can start reading some very boring books, as both means and an end; he can start talking about want to become one with the instrument; and often be found musing over obscure musical frameworks.

The only known cure is to go and have some fun.

Because that's what it's all about. Not fretw***ing; not reading a book on theory; not listening to someone yack on about how they supported a guy who once tuned Jaco's bass and had a 5hr bass solo in his set. Just, plain and simply, about having fun and [i]the pleasure inherent in the enjoyment of things[/i].

If you don't like the bass lines: write some more fun ones.

If you don't like the band: find a more fun one.

[i]Ad infinitum[/i], etc, etc.

As you were talking out loud and not asking for help, please feel free to disregard

Edited July 3, 2012 by Gust0o

[BobVbass]

I think most self taught people go through the "bloody hell I can't play this, bloody hell I can and I'm brilliant, bloody hell actually I'm useless" cycle all through their playing career - I know I have; it only really settled down for me after about 25 years playing when I really branched out into different styles of music and learnt DB as well. It's a confidence and self belief thing as much as anything.

Bass playing is a journey and there's no right or wrong speed to go at or right path to take; the only thing to do is to keep journeying and enjoy the ride. It's not a competition either; I'm sure despite how much you put yourself down your experiences have given you a style that others might not be able to play.

There will be people out there that you'll enjoy playing with whether it's live or recording projects - keep at it

[Gust0o]

Failing that, we can try [i]regression theory[/i]. I can put you in a headlock until the lack of air makes you think [i]you have gone back to when you were 19[/i], and we can use this regression to diagnose your musical ailments

[LukeFRC]

I think part of learning to play bass is learning the theory, what to play when, moving all over the fretboard and being technically brilliant.
The other part is learning how to play an open E string for most the song... and it be utterly 'right' and get enjoyment from that, and it being part of a wider music being made by the band.
I think you do yourself a disservice. I'm pretty sure the open E's you were playing recently were better than the ones you were playing 20 years back, and I'm pretty sure you could get a bass and play in that band and combine the dull with the more interesting too. The beauty of bass isn't the instrument, or some mythical point you get to when you know enough theory. it's the player, it's the communication from the player, listening to the drums and the melody instruments and creating something.
I know so so little theory, the jazz heads on here would laugh at me, I can't read, I don't know as much as so many folk on here. But give me a bass and I can play stuff that fits, and sounds good, a lot of it by ear. I can, like you, learn more theory and be better... but I think you need to first realise you already make music that is good, and you don't *have* to understand how it 'works' for it to be valid.

As a side note: Maybe you need to find musicians who can make use of what you do rather than visa versa. I play at church mainly at the mo. The drummer I play with isn't too good if he plays with another bassist. But I can work off what he does and bring the best out of him. and visa versa.

[fumps]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1341320400' post='1716922']
The thrash metal doesn't work for you anymore, fair enough but surely there's other styles that you would like to play?
[/quote]

Yeh there is, I still listen to heavy music, but my heart is not an angry one any more, so I'm more buzzing from stuff like "Tosca's- Deli 9" and the "Cinematic Orchestra- Everyday"
I like different things for different moods. it all depends with me. i have become a lover of all kinds of music so the idea of staying with one style makes me feel like I'm trapped......if that makes sense ?!?!

Maybe I need to jump in & be as recklessly brave as my youth but with the laid back knowladge of me now......the combination could be at least more interesting than sitting at home playing to myself

[charic]

Recklessly laid back... as long as it doesn't result in coldplay then go for it

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1341320504' post='1716928']
They're [i]your [/i]bass lines, chief. If you don't like 'em, change 'em. The genre is just an excuse - but whether you're painting your funk fingernails, or sewing on some sturdy elbow patches for the local jazz festival down the Dog & Badger, you own the lines; compromise, by all means, but don't settle for crap.

Personally, reading it, I think you're suffering from [i]Basschatitis - [/i]it's a condition, often foreshadowed by symptoms around feelings of inadequacy, as users bump into other users, who have played [i]longer, [/i]who know [i]more[/i], and who have [i]read some books[/i], which were very f***ing boring.

A modest man can succumb quickly to this condition: he can start reading some very boring books, as both means and an end; he can start talking about want to become one with the instrument; and often be found musing over obscure musical frameworks.

The only known cure is to go and have some fun.

Because that's what it's all about. Not fretw***ing; not reading a book on theory; not listening to someone yack on about how they supported a guy who once tuned Jaco's bass and had a 5hr bass solo in his set. Just, plain and simply, about having fun and [i]the pleasure inherent in the enjoyment of things[/i].

If you don't like the bass lines: write some more fun ones.

If you don't like the band: find a more fun one.

[i]Ad infinitum[/i], etc, etc.

[/quote]


Lots of wisdom there. Being at ease with oneself and not being impressed or feeling inadequate because of others is the root of true contentment. As far as I'm concerned, the only real rule for life is 'Do No Harm' but after that do whatever makes you happiest.

[paul torch]

I know what you mean.

I played bass as a teenager right through to my mid-20s when I jacked it in to spend the next 17 years as a DJ.

Though I wasn't completely useless as a bassist there where limitations due to gaping holes in my knowledge of the instrument.

When I returned to my first love, having not picked it up in the previous 17 years, I was determined to be a bit more "serious" about it.

I found youtube a great help for learning different techniques as well as scales (pentatonic, relative minor, etc). I'm still no expert but my playing and writing have become a more fulfilling experience.

Also, the 17 years behind the decks taught me a whole lot about groove and "less is more".

Keep with it dude.

Edited July 3, 2012 by paul torch

[neepheid]

There will always be someone who knows more than you and can play "better" than you. You're better than someone who has never played the instrument before.

You will always be somewhere between these two extremes (especially as the first one is devilishly difficult to define). I sometimes wonder if I'm just peddling snake oil, that anyone could play what I'm playing, but the thing I always remember is that I'M the one who's playing it, not someone else.

I have found that the biggest shot in the arm for my playing by far was to get lessons. Much more fun and more engaging being taught by a person than reading from a book. I learned some theory, tidied up some bad habits (still working on being more strict at alternating fingers in right hand) and found that I was in a much better position to jam, compose and enjoy myself because before that someone would say "this song's in A" and I would say "that's nice" - completely unaware of why that information is pertinent

[SpaceChick]

I have read every word and found it heartfelt and insightful.

I wish you luck as you continue on your journey.

I am at the start of my bass playing life, and am desperate to play in a band.

Hope you can find the direction you need to move forward in a way that is right for you.

[Conan]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341319860' post='1716908']I will never fully understand the beauty of the instrument I love so much & I feel like I have abused for so long, by not understanding the capabilities of the Bass I am letting myself down & will never be able to play in the way i want.
I think it's time to really do the right thing by the instrument that has been amazingly kind to me.[/quote]

A bass guitar is a musical instrument. It is a tool. It has no inherent worth without somebody to play it and release the music. That's where you come in! You don't owe the bass anything man!

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341320793' post='1716937']
I like different things for different moods. it all depends with me. i have become a lover of all kinds of music so the idea of staying with one style makes me feel like I'm trapped......if that makes sense ?!?![/quote]

It's called maturity. Maybe other band members feel the same? In which case you can re-invent yourselves in the light of your new-found grown-upness. The band could be even better!

[Happy Jack]

Fumps, I picked up a bass for the very first time on my 49th birthday. Yup, I was already 13 years older than you are now.

I wish to God I'd picked up a bass when I was 36 (or 26, or 16) but I didn't, no use moaning about it.

Being a 36-year-old experienced beginner is a GREAT place to start from ... enjoy it mate.

[fumps]

Cheers guys some interesting comments & views......Gust0o I don't ever disregard peoples views especially if they make me laugh.

In a way I would love just to sit with a teacher & ask him questions, no playing just questions.......some of them would be mind numbingly dumb, some would probably be complex but I have scowered the books I have & just cant find the answers to my questions.

Music (To me) is a awesome Yin-Yan puzzle playing music is fun, hilarious, creative & beautiful, the dark side is the bewildering black lake of confusing hieroglyphs that is the theory behind it all........I will never truly understand the laws that I think exist in music but a little understanding would be useful .....as I realise I know bugger all.

I get what you all say here......i need to get out of my comfort zone. i need to bloody wake up to myself a bit & realise that music is not something to be feared.


maybe [b]this[/b] is what i was hoping to hear lol

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341322234' post='1716983']
In a way I would love just to sit with a teacher & ask him questions, no playing just questions.......some of them would be mind numbingly dumb, some would probably be complex but I have scowered the books I have & just cant find the answers to my questions.[/quote]

I agree, but sometimes you need someone to tell you what the right questions are.

[El Bajo]

Just stay of YouTube. That site can really kill ones confidence

[paul torch]

[quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1341322540' post='1716987']
Just stay of YouTube. That site can really kill ones confidence
[/quote]

depends what you look for. it helped me.

[paul torch]

Stick one of your Acid Techno mixes on and jam along to that.

[megallica]

Good luck to you mate, my first band was a thrash band playing Metallica/Slayer/Megadeth/Pantera covers and that was where I learnt some of the basics but a lot of open e riffs do get a bit stale after a while.
Thrash is still my favourite genre of music 25 years later but I do enjoy alternative styles too.

[fumps]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1341321508' post='1716962']
I know what you mean.
I played bass as a teenager right through to my mid-20s when I jacked it in to spend the next 17 years as a DJ.
Also, the 17 years behind the decks taught me a whole lot about groove and "less is more".

Keep with it dude.
[/quote]

I'm glad you said that, being a DJ has taught me loads about timing & attitude towards music. It has been a big influence to me coming back to Bass.

There are so many terms & stuff that is talked about on this forum I have literally no idea what it means, For instance I have no idea what a pentatonic scale is or a why the different scales have names that differentiates them from a normal scale.....if there is a normal scale.

Here is how little my knowladge goes (gulp): if a dude plays a chord to me (Say for instance G) I know I can play G but I have no idea what other notes go with that chord.....I literally don't know.......I mean can you play anything ? .......say can i play G then D or would that sound wrong .......right now if someone says play G i'll just pump that note till the chord change. But i've seen other bass players play G.....then a whole lot more creating their own grooved bass lines that sound like a tune all of it's own.....how do they do that ? how do they know what to play ?

this is all that I want to know, then I can stop this weird self doubt I am going through i suppose

[paul torch]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1341324114' post='1717018']
I'm glad you said that, being a DJ has taught me loads about timing & attitude towards music. It has been a big influence to me coming back to Bass.

There are so many terms & stuff that is talked about on this forum I have literally no idea what it means, For instance I have no idea what a pentatonic scale is or a why the different scales have names that differentiates them from a normal scale.....if there is a normal scale.

Here is how little my knowladge goes (gulp): if a dude plays a chord to me (Say for instance G) I know I can play G but I have no idea what other notes go with that chord.....I literally don't know.......I mean can you play anything ? .......say can i play G then D or would that sound wrong .......right now if someone says play G i'll just pump that note till the chord change. But i've seen other bass players play G.....then a whole lot more creating their own grooved bass lines that sound like a tune all of it's own.....how do they do that ? how do they know what to play ?

this is all that I want to know, then I can stop this weird self doubt I am going through i suppose
[/quote]

as i said, i'm no expert, but to my understanding you can play any note that is in either the chord or scale of G. So D would work in that instance.

look up pentatonic blues bass scale on you tube and you will instantly see where the majority of rock baselines come from.

[charic]

What you can get away with playing takes bit more into account than just the current chord being played...

Although if you want to play it safe then.. look at the notes that are being played on the guitar (this is how I learned).

Standard G on guitar is

String (Fret) /Note

E (3) / G, A(2) / B, D(0) / D, G(0) / G, B(0) / B,E(3) /G

So without knowing anything about keys at this point we know G, B and D will fit with a G chord.