Guitarist recorded over my parts :(

[xilddx]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1338375034' post='1673405']
I do that a lot, I retract my comment.
[/quote]

Nice one

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1338375034' post='1673405']
I do that a lot, I retract my comment.
[/quote] Well played

[MarkG3]

Keep playing bass no matter who says what, I would sack the band off, to me music is about being creative and in a band sounding good as a band and not at the expense of the other band mates.

I may well be bullshitting but I swear I read that the guitard from System of a down records all the bass tracks so it is 'tight'

But the end of the day you shouldn't be made to feel like that and I'm sure if you keep looking and use this as experience you'll find some people that all value each other.

[chris_b]

+1 for starting or joining another band.

I would imagine that this one doesn't have much of a future for you.

[largo]

I'm reading the OP and it says the basslines were written over scratch vocals and I would have expected the recording to be done over some sort of guide vocal as well. Surely, either the guitarist, producer or bassist would have realised something wasn't working long before final mix?

[Lozz196]

I must admit to being a bit surprised at some of the opinions aired so far. None of us (I`m assuming) have heard either the full tracks with the original basslines, or the tracks with the re-recorded basslines, yet I sense an underlying current of thought that the OPs work must have been wrong, and that the guitarist who did the re-recording was looking at "the bigger picture".

Now I`ve done enough studio work to admit that some things which I`ve played live, when I`ve heard them on recordings, can hear that they don`t work, so have had to change them, so can see that this may be the case here. But I`ve also encountered many guitarists with egos the size of small/medium sized planets, who can`t accept that bassists are either musicians, or able to contribute, but the fact that this may be the case here doesn`t seem to want to be acknowledged.

I suppose what I`m trying to say is, where`s the solidarity between us low-enders? Do we automatically side with guitarists or producers, without hearing the evidence, over one of our own?

[xilddx]

[quote name='S9_S12_Bass' timestamp='1338377130' post='1673455']
Keep playing bass no matter who says what, I would sack the band off, to me music is about being creative and in a band sounding good as a band and not at the expense of the other band mates.

I may well be bullshitting but I swear I read that the guitard from System of a down records all the bass tracks so it is 'tight'

But the end of the day you shouldn't be made to feel like that and I'm sure if you keep looking and use this as experience you'll find some people that all value each other.
[/quote]

But there is creative and CREATIVE right? The guitarist sounds like a great songwriter, and he got signed (although it depends on the nature of the deal) on the strength of these songs. Really good songwriters and performers are hard to find, and they often have a few marbles missing in the comms and diplomacy dept. just put up with it.

It's all very well having a lovely time, but after three years of no progress with an average band, you'll be looking elsewhere, unless you're just a hobbyist, but the OP sounds like he has a bit of ambition.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1338378212' post='1673478']
I suppose what I`m trying to say is, where`s the solidarity between us low-enders? Do we automatically side with guitarists or producers, without hearing the evidence, over one of our own?
[/quote]
Siding with one of our own? Solidarity?

Hahaha You sound like a union rep

I side with the needs of the songwriter usually.

And we can only go on what the OP's said. It sounds to me like the guitarist knows what he wants.

Anyway, if you want to be a 'creative' bassist, don't join a metal band, They usually only want the bassist to follow the guitarist anyway.

[BottomE]

Tough one. Understand why you are pissed after putting the work in BUT this is the music business and normal rules don't apply. Try and communicate a bit more because it seems that there is a lot of misunderstanding going on that could be solved by chatting.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1338378212' post='1673478']
I suppose what I`m trying to say is, where`s the solidarity between us low-enders? Do we automatically side with guitarists or producers, without hearing the evidence, over one of our own?
[/quote]Even the OP hasn't heard the final tracks so saying he should listen to the end result first and then make his call when he knows how the land lies is surely a reasonable suggestion?

[quote]All the parts that I thought where clever and added value and basically my style. And I know what he would have recorded, very simplistic in the pocket bass lines[/quote]The OP has alluded to playing outside the pocket over, in his own words,
[quote]pretty simple metal but very catchy[/quote]
So there seems to be a clash of ideologies to start off with. Again, it's all fluff because, until the final mixes are done no-one can say what's right and what isn't. Whatever about band solidarity, a producer from outside the circle will have no such allegiances and do what he thinks is best for the song... and here we are

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1338379325' post='1673509']
Even the OP hasn't heard the final tracks so saying he should listen to the end result first and then make his call when he knows how the land lies is surely a reasonable suggestion?

The OP has alluded to playing outside the pocket over, in his own words,

So there seems to be a clash of ideologies to start off with. Again, it's all fluff because, until the final mixes are done no-one can say what's right and what isn't. Whatever about band solidarity, a producer from outside the circle will have no such allegiances and do what he thinks is best for the song... and here we are
[/quote]

Bang on, well said.

[51m0n]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338379526' post='1673513']
Bang on, well said.
[/quote]

+1

[TimR]

I've never met a guitarist who can play bass. I've met too many who think they can. If the producer has advised him fair enough.

The main thing to take from this is that it's not a band. You are the bass player for the song writer. You don't have any stake in the songs unless you have a written agreement.

If you are planning on putting any more into this project I would seek professional advice, whether that be going on tour or writing additional material. You may even find that when he gets signed properly you are dropped and a backing band are bought in.

Edited May 30, 2012 by TimR

[RhysP]

If you're going to get this upset about having your bass parts re-recorded, rejected or tampered with may I suggest you never become a session player.

I've done sessions where I've played what I thought was a good part only to be told "that's not what I want, can you do it this way instead?" Or had some nice groove playing cut up, copied, pasted and rejigged about so the end result sounded completely different to what I initially played. No point in having a hissy fit about it & certainly no room for ego to run riot - you play what the person hiring you wants you to play & you take the cash at the end.

[skankdelvar]

Sounds to me like this started out as a sort of loose affiliation, couple of guys in a room, matey sort of situation, we've all been there. Suddenly, it all gets a lot bigger, the 'talent' sees the act taking off and the social graces fly out the window. That's business, I suppose.

Yes, it's right that the mainman pursues his vision and that he crafts the best possible product. But he should not forget that the OP made some personal sacrifices to help him out when he needed it. Some professional tact would have helped ease this through. Sort of thing (some) managers are good at.

So, lessons for the OP drawn from the wise advice posted by others.

* Keep your chin up - the music biz is a cruel mistress and you've learned a hard lesson. What does not kill you makes you strong.

* The song is more important than its component parts. No reflection on you.

* Don't give up on the bass, you're obviously quite committed to it. And it's probably too late to learn the mandolin.

* Stay involved with the project, but keep your guard up. Time to start getting things in writing.

* Develop your own side-project where you can do things your own sweet way

* Keep a diary. Note the mainman's [color=#000000]idiosyncrasies, sexual habits, etc. Publish prurient 'warts and all' memoir after he croaks. Rake in cash and laugh madly.[/color]

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited May 30, 2012 by skankdelvar

[Toasted]

There did you go to record in Bradford?

[BottomE]

I play for other people quite a bit and the they always choose the bass track i don't like but i respect their choice as it is normally their song.

[xilddx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1338387217' post='1673700']
Sounds to me like this started out as a sort of loose affiliation, couple of guys in a room, matey sort of situation, we've all been there. Suddenly, it all gets a lot bigger, the 'talent' sees the act taking off and the social graces fly out the window. That's business, I suppose.

Yes, it's right that the mainman pursues his vision and that he crafts the best possible product. But he should not forget that the OP made some personal sacrifices to help him out when he needed it. Some professional tact would have helped ease this through. Sort of thing (some) managers are good at.

So, lessons for the OP drawn from the wise advice posted by others.

* Keep your chin up - the music biz is a cruel mistress and you've learned a hard lesson. What does not kill you makes you strong.

* The song is more important than its component parts. No reflection on you.

* Don't give up on the bass, you're obviously quite committed to it. And it's probably too late to learn the mandolin.

* Stay involved with the project, but keep your guard up. Time to start getting things in writing.

* Develop your own side-project where you can do things your own sweet way

* Keep a diary. Note the mainman's [color=#000000]idiosyncrasies, sexual habits, etc. Publish prurient 'warts and all' memoir after he croaks. Rake in cash and laugh madly.[/color]

[color=#ffffff].[/color]
[/quote]

and also a lot of good sense

[JTUK]

You can't equate this to a working situation unless money is invloved. Maybe it will be further down the line but there might just be enough here for expenses.
The bass part is expendable on the track but the gtr can't do that live so he will need a bass player.
If that is you...you just need to make sure you are in the right place at the right time..IF you deem it worth it..and you have gotten over this age old issue of
someone doing a 'supposed' better or rather, more appropriate job..according to him-the man in control.

If you feel betrayed or whatever... then that blows out working with him again..which might be the best thing for you anyway.
If you want what he has..which is the promise/potential of nice gigs and a bit of a 'signed' band action, then you will have to get over this spat.
There may be people queieng up to do this gig..there may not...
If there is money in it...you will not be able to count the interest, if there is not... people will have to justify why they want to do it.

All of this IF's and buts are not easy to get past.
Who is going to rehearse to a decent standard and pay for the priviledge..??

This sopunds like a pro offer in nothing but name..which is what a lot of the industy is.
Gone are the days of budgets for nothing..
It is far easier to get signed, these days..but what are they actually offering..?

Have a chat with the Gtr.. you need to know where this is going and what the deal is..and then you can decide if it is worth it.

A percentage of not a lot in terms of money..is..eerr... not a lot.

Don't get seduced into what this may pretend to be..just ask him what he is offering you..or rather, what plans he has that invloves you.. diplomatically.
If you become a pain to him.. he might not want to work with you anyway..and you miss 3 decent worthwhile gigs..or not..

Basically..see what the whole deal is without burning any bridges and then make up your mind if you want to do it..for your reasons that you can live with.

Being a sideman... means you have no say at all..mostly..so at least get the money sorted..assuming there is any.

[El Bajo]

Hi all, some great responses and advice, I feel over welmed, it seems many people have been in similar situations.

I'll just clarify that he used to be a bass player, he's actually pretty good in a Duff Mackagan kind of way and his rhythm guitar has a lot of groove to it. The producer did want to use some of my parts but the Guiraist made a judgment call and re-recorded

The one thing I am hearing alot of is communication, I do need to sit down with him and find out what he expects of me, or expects from the bass. In the past he's just said in the middle 8 go crazy...so I did but it looks like it hasn't worked out like he wanted.

It would be different if from the outset my role was defined I can handle being a session player just fine, if anything it would probably suit my lifestyle (job, family etc..).


Can I just say I feel I've cast him in a bad light, as a person he's a great guy...just a bit ruthless when it comes to music and views people as expendable if they don't pull their weight...I just hope he thinks that I haven't.

A few of you have mentioned money, he's listed us all as song co-writers (which makes me feel like a fraud). I do expect to be paid for gigs if payment is offered by the venue/promotor. He's also included me in all developments so far and asked for my opinion...which he's never followed (meow). This is is baby (and money) and he's been let down in the past so I understand why he is this way.

I'm going to reply and express my dissapointment at not being notified at the time and the need for better communication. Also if he does want me to contribute, and that if we go into the studios again, I want to work and develop parts together so this kind of thing doesen't happen. If not then what kind of expectations does he have of me, am i considered part of the band? Or just a live player.

Still gonna feel a bit daft handing out CDs to friends though.

[El Bajo]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1338387390' post='1673702']
There did you go to record in Bradford?
[/quote]

It was in Batley by a guy called Steve Wray

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1338382701' post='1673593']
I've never met a guitarist who can play bass. I've met too many who think they can. If the producer has advised him fair enough.
[/quote]

Poking up my head here, and saying no. There's plenty of us guitarists on here who would disagree with you.

Sorry to interrupt your thread EB, as you were....

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1338389872' post='1673774']
I'm going to reply and express my dissapointment at not being notified at the time and the need for better communication. Also if he does want me to contribute, and that if we go into the studios again, I want to work and develop parts together so this kind of thing doesen't happen. If not then what kind of expectations does he have of me, am i considered part of the band? Or just a live player.[/quote]

Frankly, that's a lot to stick in an email without appearing a bit intense. It also shows your him your hand.

Why not mail him, all smiley-like, saying you're glad he's 'happy with the outcome, let's have a beer and sort out where we go next and how I can best fit in with what you want to do'. Just that, no more.

Sit him down and have a general matey chat about the things you listed. That way, he's not teed up in advance for trouble and you might get more info out of him than otherwise.

Remember, you're a bassist. Silent but deadly is our way.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited May 30, 2012 by skankdelvar

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1338390035' post='1673781']
Poking up my head here, and saying no. There's plenty of us guitarists on here who would disagree with you.

Sorry to interrupt your thread EB, as you were....
[/quote]
Quite.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1338382701' post='1673593']
I've never met a guitarist who can play bass. I've met too many who think they can. If the producer has advised him fair enough.
[/quote]

You've obviously not met many guitarists then...