achknalligewelt Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I know this might be a contentious question, but hear me out. I have just read the thread discussing Blur's perfomance at the Brits last night. I didn't see it, but I gathered from reports today that it was pretty messy. The post on Basschat bore that out, but it also has quite a lot of people criticising Alex James as a player. I'll stand up now and say that I think he's a great player, but that's not quite the point I want to make. Because other names were thrown up as unremarkable, such as Mick Quinn of Supergrass and Mat Osman of Suede. I think they're great, too, playing excellent and fitting lines in some great songs. But the more I read Basschat, I find the conversation dominated either by the classic rock basists of the 60's and 70's, such as Geddy Lee and John-Paul Jones, or super-duper bass soloists, like Victor Wooten or Jaco Pastorius. Where is the flattering reference to Mike Mills? Colin Greenwood? Or even Andy Rourke? Are these players genuinely inferior to the giant rock players of the 1970's? And if so, why? I'd also like to say that I am not attacking the canon of leading bassists, nor those who admire them. I was called a troll on a post here a while back for a passing criticism of John Entwistle, and I don't want to raise hackles. But why are more recent bass players so readily ignored or criticised on these pages? What's wrong with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've always enjoyed playing Blurs basslines. However maybe on the show (I didn't catch it last night) he was very sloppy? A great bassline is great, a great bassline played bad isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Because people have different tastes and opinions maybe? For Eg. some think Burton was the Mutts Nuts while others think he was a sloppy player. Its just the opinion/views of others and whatever that opinion is it dosent make them right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehoffmann Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I see your point and I agree. However, Blur was sh*t last night, specially the bass player. Crap sound, crap performance, a bunch of drunken, bored, decadent rock stars. By the way, Mick Quinn is one of my favourite bass players and also happens to be a really cool guy. Edited February 22, 2012 by eddiehoffmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Hughes Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Perhaps it's a headline/attention grabbing thing - we naturally gravitate towards the uber-talented or the nostalgic hero. Entwhistle, Squire, McCartney, Jaco, Stanley, Victor, etc all have many fans so those kind of threads get more attention. I definitely agree that there are too many unsung bass players out there of recent and not so recent times. So I'll throw my hat in the ring and say let's hear it for Martyn P Casey from The Triffids, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds and Grinderman. Great melodic and supportive lines that I could sit looping for hours on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panamonte Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Gareth Hughes' timestamp='1329921171' post='1549773'] So I'll throw my hat in the ring and say let's hear it for Martyn P Casey from The Triffids, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds and Grinderman. [/quote] +1. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It was easier to get recognition as a rock musician (all instruments not just bass) because it was all new. Nowadays most of what we hear has been done before. There's nothing wrong with current bass players their only problem is that they didn't think of the ideas first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think its a fair question to ask , although i wouldnt limit to basses. I can offer several reasons off the top of my head A lot of the bass players here are a certain age and these players are the ones we had posters of on our bedroom walls Its easier to reference someone like Mc Cartney since everyone knows who he is - TBH I never heard of Martyn Casey ( did The Triffids do the song Chickenkiller ?) Modern music just aint as good as the stuff that went before it !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Modern music is easily as good as what came before it. If you think otherwise then you have turned into your dad and you should pack in playing music straight away and get you pipe and slippers out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1329922251' post='1549797'] Modern music is easily as good as what came before it. If you think otherwise then you have turned into your dad and you should pack in playing music straight away and get you pipe and slippers out. [/quote] Haha, I like this - I think we had a similar discussion, only recently, covering the merits of the band Spector. Sure, they're not everyone's cup of tea - but they get people dancing, and give people some pleasure. And surely that's what music is all about? I don't understand our over-reverance of the classic players, or the technicality - we get lost in making our value judgements across a small range of values, totally overlooked by the general public; all they care about is whether the music is good and they can enjoy it, and maybe we could learn a little bit from that, in having the best of both worlds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1329922251' post='1549797'] Modern music is easily as good as what came before it. If you think otherwise then you have turned into your dad and you should pack in playing music straight away and get you pipe and slippers out. [/quote] Thought that might get a response ! Dont get me wrong there are some interesting things out there but they are so much harder to find . Anyway I dont smoke can I have some Worthers Originals instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairyhaw Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1329920580' post='1549751'] But the more I read Basschat, I find the conversation dominated either by the classic rock basists of the 60's and 70's, such as Geddy Lee and John-Paul Jones, or super-duper bass soloists, like Victor Wooten or Jaco Pastorius. Where is the flattering reference to Mike Mills? Colin Greenwood? Or even Andy Rourke? Are these players genuinely inferior to the giant rock players of the 1970's? And if so, why? [/quote] Mmmmm, Andy Rourke. now [i]there's [/i]a player. Somebody told me the other day that he's barking when he's out on the lash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Cutlery isn't particularly exciting these days either. Let's have a bitch about how boring forks have become. These new forks aren't as good as the classic forks of my childhood etc. etc. ad nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1329922715' post='1549810'] ...can I have some Worthers Originals instead [/quote] What, paedo pellets? Inadvisable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's because they're modern. In another 20 or 30 years time they'll be great and whoever is modern then will be crap. I thought everyone knew this. It's just the way we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1329922152' post='1549794'] A lot of the bass players here are a certain age and these players are the ones we had posters of on our bedroom walls [/quote] plus the one. (not that i had said posters, but i'm agreeing with the point) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1329923295' post='1549827'] It's because they're modern. In another 20 or 30 years time they'll be great and whoever is modern then will be crap. I thought everyone knew this. It's just the way we are. [/quote] Yep couldnt agree more ,btw andy rouke is the reason i play bass now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I think the bass is simply a versatile instrument that can fulfil a variety of roles - forget that at your peril. Personally I subscribe to the "the bass is there to make the guitars sound good" view point but - to pick up another thread doing the rounds at the moment - that doesn't make the hairy guy out of Dirty Loops (and the like) any less impressive. BTW... I saw Blur the other night and I enjoyed their stuff. I think people just like to have a dig. They're up there doing it while we're bored at our desk jobs passing comment Edited February 22, 2012 by thepurpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) its all opinion pretty much isnt it? personally ive never really understood what all the fuss is about jack bruce and think that my cat could play better but other people rate him up at the top - thats their choice innit Edited February 22, 2012 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayben Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Likewise, the only thing I heard wrong with Blur's performance last night was Damon. Probably my ears/sense of timing, but I genuinely think the rest of the band did a decent job. I don't think there's anything wrong with modern bass players either - it's just that the more famous ones stick in our memory, for example McCartney or Sting, despite my having seen local bass players who are not that much older than myself and are (imo) superior to the likes of Wooten, Entwistle and Bruce. But then, nobody's heard of Liam O'Brien, a 24 year old hip hop bass player from Cheshire have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's because for all the yap yap people spout on Basschat, most people can only really differentiate between simple bassists and complicated bassists. Much of the subtlety of the simple bassline, nuance, space, composition, etc is lost on most people. It is for most instruments. Music is about FEELING, not analysing core competencies of each band member in isolation. Guiggsy sounds terrible on his own, but Oasis sounded fine. Listen to James Jamerson bass isolated, not pleasant, but very good in a band situation. Also, most people rely on the opinions of those they like respect, and Alex James gets a lot of flack so maybe it's bandwagoning to some degree. FWIW, I thought Alex James was ok last night. He supported the band well he played a couple of things I thought were very musical and quite demanding. The Blur performance was a bit sloppy, but the energy levels were high and it was enjoyable to watch and hear. Next thing you'll hear is people saying that Jessie J is TOO polished and the band sounds sterile. People talk a lot of sh*t sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Don't know about anything wrong with modern bassists, there seem to be plenty of ace players around - for example, what about the bass player with Bruno Mars (Jamareo Artis) ? Saw him on the Brits last night - best playing I've seen for ages, with a great band too. (And he danced whilst doing it !) Also caught Vintage Trouble live a few weeks ago, with superb playing from Rick Barrio Dill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Blur? Modern? I hate to break it to you all but Blur are pushing 20 years on the go... For what its worth, I rave about Andy Rourke and Mike Mills all the time. PS Blur: are sh*te Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Following on from Nige, is the real problem with modern bass players not the fact that we're discussing them on a bass players forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have stated time and time again that if the music sounds good, then the bass player (or indeed any musician in the band) has done his or her job properly. The consistent moaning about Adam Clayton only playing 8th notes for example. I'm not the biggest U2 fan in the world and I never will be, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that they must be doing something right because their music sounds good, even to me if I'm completely honest. And to a lot of other people (millions of other people in fact), their music sounds [u]brilliant[/u]. Bottom line, if brilliant music is made with a bass player playing note perfect 16ths or very imperfect and out-of-time quarter notes, then the bass player has done his job correctly. People that try and argue otherwise are the types of people usually unable to look at the larger musical picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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