MIJ/CIJ better than MIM Fenders

[Andy Hodson]

Hey all.

Fairly new on here and I have been reading about Japanese Fenders being imported. I'm just after you opinions on whether or not the japanese models have better construction, sounds and playability than the MIM fenders?

Cheers

[Lozz196]

I`ve had a couple of MIJ/CIJ Fenders, and some MIMs, including the Classic Range. For me, both the Classic Range and the MIJ/CIJ were better players than the Standard MIMs. I don`t know about construction, as all of my MIMs were put together fine, or sound, but for me, it was the necks that were better on the CIJ/MIJs. But that could just be personal preference, rather than them actually being "better".

Edited January 4, 2012 by Lozz196

[Ed_S]

From what I've read, it seems that buying older basses, you might well find significant differences. My personal experience over the last few years, however, is that it entirely depends which MIM you get and how good you are at tweaking it to personal taste. My two main gigging basses at present are a 2011 MIJ Classic 70s P and a 2010 MIM Mike Dirnt sig. P, and I can say that for £230 less outlay from new, the Mike Dirnt is just as well if not better constructed than the MIJ, just as good (if different) sounding as the MIJ, and has a rosewood board with figuring that neither of my MIAs can match (the MIJ is maple). The only problem with the Mike Dirnt was the setup - or lack thereof - which I suspect had kept it languishing on the wall at DV for long enough to land it in their clearance sale. Half an hour of tweaking and some new strings later, it was perfect. My last pair of gigging basses was just the same; two 2009 standard MIM Ps that both arrived 'a bit rough' but only took a set-up and re-string to get right. The MIJ, by comparison, was perfect right out of the box... but I personally don't take that to mean a better product, just better presentation.

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Andy Hodson' timestamp='1325654560' post='1485685']
Hey all.

Fairly new on here and I have been reading about Japanese Fenders being imported. I'm just after you opinions on whether or not the japanese models have better construction, sounds and playability than the MIM fenders?

Cheers
[/quote]
Don't worry about what it says on the label or where they're made - just get & play it - if it feels right, looks right & sounds right to you - then it's all good

[charic]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1325667117' post='1485730']
Don't worry about what it says on the label or where they're made - just get & play it - if it feels right, looks right & sounds right to you - then it's all good
[/quote]

Exactamundo

[throwoff]

I think my CIJ is on a par with some MIA's.

When I got it I had played two CIJ's and one MIA that day, the one I bought 57' reissue sounded and felt a world above the other two, but then I like a big fat neck so that probably has a lot to do with it!

EDIT - Basically paraphrasing what has been said before, the right one feels right.

Edited January 4, 2012 by throwoff

[KiOgon]

By the way, 'playability' is 95% in the set-up in my experience & if you don't do/or learn to do your own setting up, you're never going to have the best 'playability'

[lapolpora]

To reiterate what's already been said before but to add:

For me, when you buy MIJ/CIJ you know what you are going to get. There are very few duds, if any at all. Of all the MIJs I've played none have surprised me. You know what their strengths are going to be and also their weaknesses. I'd buy a MIJ off the internet without much hesitation (and have on multiple times now) but I'd want to see and try a MIM or a MIA first.

[Raggy]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1325667117' post='1485730']
Don't worry about what it says on the label or where they're made - just get & play it - if it feels right, looks right & sounds right to you - then it's all good
[/quote]

This is where it's at!

My Roger Waters sig is a MIM and its been my go to bass since I got it, my CIJ has not had a look in, a little tweak to get it how I like it, and it's just right for me.

[Fat Rich]

I don't care which country my Fenders are built in, all I'm interested in is tone, build quality and playability. However I've a Precision and 3 Jazz basses and they're all MIJ, that's just the way it's worked out.

In my fairly limited experience:

I've played some good American Fenders and I've been told the quality is better now, but mostly I've been disappointed with the sound of them. However I've got a Highway One Strat and I really like it.

I've played a couple of Mexican Jazzes but the build quality seems to be extremely variable although they often sound and feel good, one of them you could get a 50p into the gap around the neck pocket

The Japanese ones seem to be well built and sound great, they're a fairly safe bet and pretty good value for money.

But recently I've been most impressed with Squiers, good basses for not much money. Much better than they used to be.

[brensabre79]

+1 on the Squiers. It doesn't matter where its built to be honest you get some good and some bad. The main reason you tend to get more good ones if you buy older basses is that the good ones get kept whereas the bad ones tend to get chucked, broken up for parts etc.
As with all basses from the cheapest korean brand to the custom built one-offs, try before you buy, the last thing you should be buying with is your eyes.
The main difference (apart from materials) between MIA, MIM, MIJ, made in anywhere, is the level of human contact in setup and quality control. A good setup and occasional repair will generally get over most of these issues.
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but at one time the MIA ones tended to get the best looking cuts of timber, the cuts not selected were then sent to Mexico where the labour is cheaper. The ones made in the far east generally use less expensive timber, but the Japan ones are generally the pick of these right out of the box - simply because the quality control is higher.

FWIW, my Squier Jazz cost me £200 and Bernie Goodfellow and I reckon it plays better than my MIA American Deluxe Jazz. Sometimes its the luck of the draw.

[thumperbob 2002]

I`ve had loads of Mexican and American Fenders over the years but the best I have had have been my CIJ Marcus Miller and my present CIJ 70s Re-Issue. Very high quality, after set up probably the best Jazz I have had ( or played ) Who needs a sadowsky?

I think the main point with the Jap fenders is consistency.

[bridge]

I have a 2003 MIM jazz, set up great, plays lovely, I had a go on a mates MIA jazz, and to be honest, it was not as good as my MIM.As other say, its the luck of the draw!

[Musicman20]

As most MIJ/CIJ/whichever basses are only available second hand or imported, the supply/demand has pushed the prices to ridiculous levels.

I had a great P Bass which was MIJ. 60s reissue. Great bass, lightweight, but the pickup wasn't that strong, especially compared to my American Standard 2009 P Bass.

I would say they are great, BUT, at the right price. They aren't as good as the new American Standards, but they are good! Whether its better than a MIM is difficult, as the price difference/setup difference applies. A good MIM will be better than an average MIJ, etc. Both of them, unless they are loaded with USA pups or boutique pups, will need upgrades to get the sound right.

My advice? If you want a Fender, but don't want an American Standard, get a Squier CV and put new pups in it.

[SebCarr]

I've played quite a few MIJ guitars and basses, and they do feel consistent. While MIM stuff seems to vary quite wildly, MIJ always seems to feel like MIJ. However, I've played some MIM and Squier stuff that was horrible, and some that was lovely. Everything MIJ was in the middle. Consistently quite good (and consistently a bit wimpy in the pups, whether P bass, tele, strat...). I've never really clicked with the MIJ stuff. It was never bad, but I preferred the best of the rest.

[flyfisher]

What are the actual supposed differences though?

Surely all the (standard) fender pups are made in the same place by the same machines and shipped out where needed. Similarly, wouldn't the bodies and necks all be carved out by CNC machines working to idential programming?

I can understand that wood quality might vary a bit, but wouldn't that vary between actually basses, rather than locations?

I can also understand that set-ups might vary a bit, though wouldn't there be a common standard test & set-up procedure across all manufacturing sites?

I'm not trying to argue that there can be no differences across basses but I'm struggling with generalisations such as "MIJ", MIM and "MIA" as useful descriptors.

[Gareth Hughes]

My quick 2p's worth is that my CIJ 75 Jazz Reissue is of better construction quality than my MIA 2008 American Standard Jazz.

[brensabre79]

I think the only use for the descriptors Flyfisher is the price tag. As others say the Japanese ones are consistently OK, the American, Mexican, Squier etc. are more varied in quality but a Bad MIA is probably not as bad as a Bad MIM.

The difference in set-up is that at the cheaper end they do have a pretty standard set-up procedure and thats it. They will also let the basses go out with minor faults, dodgy wiring etc. So buying one of those you're likely to have to resolder a joint or shim the neck slightly to get the best setup.

If you buy a more expensive American one, the labour rate is considerably higher - hence the price is higher for that, also, they also usually pay a bit more attention to details, having any faults corrected, making sure the setup is good when it leaves the factory. The fit of the neck in the pocket is usually much tighter, same with scratchplate etc. The pickups used on the MIA are different to the MIM, the hardware is heavier, better quality and the wood chosen is the pick of the bunch. So for your money you get better components put together with a bit more care. but you will still get a friday night bass once in a while...

[Cat Burrito]

From my experiences the basic level of every Fender level seems to be worse than the deluxe version of the one below i.e. Squier VM range is better than MIM basic, MIM Classic is better than HWY1 etc but it comes down to tastes and individual models. People do tend to rave about MIJ / CIJ and having played a few / owned a few I can see why. I do find the MIM Classics rival them though these days

[hairyhaw]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1325672367' post='1485805']I've played a couple of Mexican Jazzes but the build quality seems to be extremely variable although they often sound and feel good, one of them you could get a 50p into the gap around the neck pocket
[/quote]

Ha ha, the P in my avatar has the exact same problem and is the main reason why I'd never sell it. Bought it new (MN2 serial) when I had zero savvy on these things.

On the other hand, I have a 70's classic Jazz (which is the main bass) and the quality difference between them is quite pronounced. The only thing I'd say against it is the the factory chaps have been a little too liberal with the poly on the neck!

[jezzaboy]

I had a CIJ P bass a few years ago and I wouldn`t say that it was any better than any of the other P basses I have owned. At the back end of last year I bought a Mex Clasic 60`s Jazz and this thing is spot on, I have no issues with it at all. It`s well put together and the finish is flawless.

In the end a good bass that suits you is what we are all looking for, no matter what country it was made in.

Jez

[pete.young]

The other thing to consider is that there are two kinds of MIJ/CIJ, those made for export and the not-for-export instruments which are only intended for the domestic market. The not-for-export have US hardware and pickups, although I couldn't say whether the build quality is any higher.

I think consistency is the main point: Japanese quality control is world-famous for a reason.

[shizznit]

Never owned a MIM Fender bass, but I have owned a couple of MIM strats. Sounds just like any other strat I have owned, but I have noticed a dip in craftsmanship in my guitars and others that friends have owned. The first one had a poorly cut neck pocket and the Hendrix tribute strat I currently have has a dirty fingerprint under the lacquer on the headstock! Not great quality control which the Mexican factory is infamous for (guitars at least) :-(

Edited January 4, 2012 by shizznit

[bigsmokebass]

I know for definite that they feel better for me and for me that's something that is important as sound can be changed via modifications and amps.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1325686473' post='1486068']
What are the actual supposed differences though?

Surely all the (standard) fender pups are made in the same place by the same machines and shipped out where needed. Similarly, wouldn't the bodies and necks all be carved out by CNC machines working to idential programming?

.........
[/quote]

I've found that US / Mex pickguards are a slightly different size to Japanese ones, similarly I've heard that the neck joint dimensions are slightly different although I've never done a neck swap to find out.

I think I heard somewhere that Tokai were making Fender clones with their own name on but were doing such a good job Fender did a deal with them for their cheaper instruments, maybe they'd only roughly copied the dimensions.

I think later on some were built by Fernandes and they were good instruments too. Maybe some Japanese Fender expert will chip in with some more details on who built what.