Commenting on for sale section prices?

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Alfie' timestamp='1322471046' post='1451056']
I think it's fair to comment on prices when someone is trying to profiteer on Basschat goodwill.

There was a case a few months ago where a bass was sold at a bargain price and the buyer later put it up for sale with a hefty mark-up, thus pricing out people who genuinely wanted the instrument and denying the original seller a fair price at the same time. I really hated this.
[/quote]

There's one going on right now:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020[/url]

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1322473883' post='1451092']
There's one going on right now:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020"]http://basschat.co.u.../page__st__1020[/url]
[/quote]

You would like to think that dealers would be up front and honest about their transactions. If that was the case then it shouldn't be a problem as they are looking for stuff they can move on at a profit and are taking the risk that it may not sell on easily. But in this case it doesn't look like that happened.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1322474912' post='1451105']
You would like to think that dealers would be up front and honest about their transactions. If that was the case then it shouldn't be a problem as they are looking for stuff they can move on at a profit and are taking the risk that it may not sell on easily. But in this case it doesn't look like that happened.
[/quote]

I agree about taking a risk, but IMHO that most definitely isn't what happened here. I met up with Deezbar just before the weekend, and this came up in conversation. He may want to talk about it himself, but for me there were a couple of aggravating factors with this one. It just rankles when people do this kind of thing.

[neepheid]

The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. Profiteering? Who are you to determine what is excessive? Comrade, this isn't some socialist enclave immune from the ebb and flow of the free market. I don't sell much stuff, but if I think I can turn a profit then I will. It's no-one's business but mine. Let's say I pick up something locally for silly money and sell it on here for a reasonable price. Am I wrong? No! I am enterprising. The item was sold for a fair market price, and the price I obtained it for is none of your business. I have no obligation to share my good fortune, I don't owe any of you a damn thing. This overinflated sense of entitlement really sticks in my craw. Goodwill? This is the same place which is the number one (in my experience) source of lowball offers whenever I sell things, so it cuts both ways.

I am a capitalist pigdog, and I'm happy to be one. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173']
The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. Profiteering? Who are you to determine what is excessive? Comrade, this isn't some socialist enclave immune from the ebb and flow of the free market. I don't sell much stuff, but if I think I can turn a profit then I will. It's no-one's business but mine. Let's say I pick up something locally for silly money and sell it on here for a reasonable price. Am I wrong? No! I am enterprising. The item was sold for a fair market price, and the price I obtained it for is none of your business. I have no obligation to share my good fortune, I don't owe any of you a damn thing. This overinflated sense of entitlement really sticks in my craw. Goodwill? This is the same place which is the number one (in my experience) source of lowball offers whenever I sell things, so it cuts both ways.

I am a capitalist pigdog, and I'm happy to be one. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.
[/quote]

Better take the lowballers out of your hate list then Neepheid

[Paul S]

My opinion as a net consumer of basses and gear, if anyone cares , is simply 'caveat emptor'.

Whatever I buy I try to find the best value on it - search the internet, whatever - so I know how much the 'market value' is. I then work out how much it is worth 'to me' and I won't pay over that - either above or below market price depending on what it is and how much I want it. Generally speaking if something I am after is offered up and it is too expensive I'll wait until a cheaper one comes along. They invariably do. But I see no point getting in a lather about it.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173']
The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. Profiteering? Who are you to determine what is excessive? Comrade, this isn't some socialist enclave immune from the ebb and flow of the free market. I don't sell much stuff, but if I think I can turn a profit then I will. It's no-one's business but mine. Let's say I pick up something locally for silly money and sell it on here for a reasonable price. Am I wrong? No! I am enterprising. The item was sold for a fair market price, and the price I obtained it for is none of your business. I have no obligation to share my good fortune, I don't owe any of you a damn thing. This overinflated sense of entitlement really sticks in my craw. Goodwill? This is the same place which is the number one (in my experience) source of lowball offers whenever I sell things, so it cuts both ways.

I am a capitalist pigdog, and I'm happy to be one. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.
[/quote]

Noted. Thanks for your opinion.

[Alfie]

Sure someone has a right to make a profit, but FWIW I think Basschat should be more like a socialist enclave and I will not be silenced by your decadent greed.

To accept that people shouldn't comment on pricing is to accept that there is already a level of social engineering in place. If the entente is broken by obvious profiteering then the agreement not to comment is void.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1322480011' post='1451195']
Better take the lowballers out of your hate list then Neepheid
[/quote]

I don't like it, but I don't go calling lowballers into question publicly either.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173']
The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. .... Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.
[/quote]

The freedom to complain about prices is as much a part of the "sacrosanct" free market as the freedom to price an item as you choose.

[skankdelvar]

While we're on about reprehensible practises, there's a BC-er (who hasn't been around for a while) who used to buy stuff in off ebay in the USA and flog it here. So far, so good. Unfortunately, he crafted his ads to suggest that he'd had this gear for some time - the old "With much regret I must unload my beloved etc., etc. Awesome tone!"

I would regularly watch stuff appear here before he'd exchanged feedback with the ebay seller and - possibly - before the item was even in this country. Reprehensible or non? You decide.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited November 28, 2011 by skankdelvar

[4 Strings]

Just to add my support for not commenting on prices publicly, if you feel the need a gentle informative message to the seller of being cheaper elsewhere etc may be welcome, but if there's a 2 year waiting list (like for a new Jaydee - as I understand) then someone might be prepared to pay a premium not to wait.

Surely the price set it the business of the seller, the price paid that of the buyer. A fool and his money are easily parted, and, as has been said, we all have google.

[Paul_C]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1322473883' post='1451092']
There's one going on right now:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/36318-big-lefty-market-thread/page__st__1020"]http://basschat.co.u.../page__st__1020[/url]
[/quote]

I recognise that carpet

[algmusic]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173']
The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. Profiteering? Who are you to determine what is excessive? Comrade, this isn't some socialist enclave immune from the ebb and flow of the free market. I don't sell much stuff, but if I think I can turn a profit then I will. It's no-one's business but mine. Let's say I pick up something locally for silly money and sell it on here for a reasonable price. Am I wrong? No! I am enterprising. The item was sold for a fair market price, and the price I obtained it for is none of your business. I have no obligation to share my good fortune, I don't owe any of you a damn thing. This overinflated sense of entitlement really sticks in my craw. Goodwill? This is the same place which is the number one (in my experience) source of lowball offers whenever I sell things, so it cuts both ways.

I am a capitalist pigdog, and I'm happy to be one. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.
[/quote]

Although this technically correct. I think some people forget the amount of money is saved on this site for advice and general 'goodwil' equates to much more than few extra quid on selling an item. I do believe what goes around, comes around.. I have no issue someone profiting from the the sales here, but I don't think it's the real reason BC was created.. People trade on here to full fill GAS and it's great. The ones that are reasonable with prices here are known quite Quicklinks and they can trade easily.. those that try to squeeze every penny in the long run don't, both ways

I wish people would keep their prices up on the FS thread, as it helps when selling on and also helps novice buyers, but I don't blame you if you don't.. THF if I didn't know if a price was reasonable, I'd set up a thread asking what would be reasonable price..

[Lozz196]

If I sell something on here, and the buyer goes on to sell it for more, good luck to them. Will teach me to write a better advert. So long as I was happy with the price I got - and I wouldn`t have sold it if I wasn`t - it`s no longer any of my concern.

I can see why some would find it annoying though. But, do your research, shouldn`t be a problem getting a fair price.

[stingrayPete1977]

I have no issue with people selling things on for more than they paid, good luck to them but in this case the seller wants the same price for a used amp as they cost brand new with all that comes with it including free postage. The argument that we should only sell on for what we paid for it doesn't hold much importance for me, things change over time and not just up, look at Warwick.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Alfie' timestamp='1322480316' post='1451201']
Sure someone has a right to make a profit, but FWIW I think Basschat should be more like a socialist enclave and I will not be silenced by your decadent greed.
[/quote]

We do keep going circles on this debate about pricing, and commenting on said pricing - on the one hands, there are some written and unwritten rules about behaviour; on the other, it's the sellers to state the price he or she wants, and the market will decide if they get it.

I think the latter trumps it. Stating a "too high" price has it's own rewards - we can all take a stab at a personal estimatation, and feel embarassed for the seller or whatever. It's not necessarily for us to argue the toss with the seller (primarily as value is subjective), unless we'd like BC to actively manage the For Sale sections (and thus add a notionally objective sense of value to the proceedings); and I'm not sure they could or would.

I think, if you're selling and get a price you're happy with, you just need to take it on the chin if someone else asks for or gets more - it might be aggrieving, but it's been sold. In large measure they can do whatever they wish with it, which includes a whole gamut of sins large and small, from dropping the thing to attempting to make a little profit.

As Lozz said, it will teach us all to write a better advert next time!

I don't think we need to comment. We should look, have a giggle, and let the stunning silence of a neglected For Sales thread do all the talking that the For Sale section needs if we all disagree on the price.

People treating a community service as a shop window for quasi-business activities is another issue, I think... and I would take a more dim view of that. This is a forum, first and foremost; we run our For Sale sections on those lines; it's not your shop window, this side of you becoming an affiliate and contributing.

[Beer of the Bass]

What's the consensus on commenting on prices you've been offered in your own "wanted" thread? I've just done this, where someone offered me something for more than the new price, and I'm wondering whether I should have passed comment or not.
This was from someone with no feedback who uses too many exclamation marks, both things which make me slightly uneasy!

Edited November 28, 2011 by Beer of the Bass

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1322503268' post='1451722']
This was from someone with no feedback who uses too many exclamation marks, both things which make me slightly uneasy!
[/quote]
Not just you. From Wikipedia:

[quote]
This punctuation mark is called, in the newspaper world, "a screamer, a gasper, [or] a startler".[sup][size=2][color=#0645ad][1][/color][/size][/sup] It is sometimes called a "dog's cock" by [color=#0645ad]typesetters[/color].[sup][size=2][color=#0645ad][2][/color][/size][/sup]
[/quote]

[stingrayPete1977]

I'd have no issue pointing that out in my own thread Beer of the Bass

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1322478873' post='1451173']
The freedom of the market is sacrosanct. ............. Not happy with a price? Negotiate in private or walk away. Don't stand on a soapbox with a megaphone outside someone's shop complaining about the prices.
[/quote]
Surely, if, as you say, the freedom of the market is sacrosanct then if I'm not happy with a price I can negotiate in public, not in private, or stand on a soapbox complaining about the prices. I don't see how you can have it both ways. It sounds like you want this freedom to be only on your terms.

[algmusic]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322508388' post='1451847']
Surely, if, as you say, the freedom of the market is sacrosanct then if I'm not happy with a price I can negotiate in public, not in private, or stand on a soapbox complaining about the prices. I don't see how you can have it both ways. It sounds like you want this freedom to be only on your terms.
[/quote]

+1

[pete.young]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1322503268' post='1451722']

This was from someone with no feedback who uses too many exclamation marks, both things which make me slightly uneasy!
[/quote]
And from someone who has made no fewer than six postings to this august forum, all of them in the Wanted section in response to people looking for kit. I was thinking 'scammer', but surely nobody could be stupid enough to do that in postings rather than PMs.

I think what you did was entirely reasonable.

[noelk27]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322508388' post='1451847']Surely, if, as you say, the freedom of the market is sacrosanct then if I'm not happy with a price I can negotiate in public, not in private, or stand on a soapbox complaining about the prices. I don't see how you can have it both ways. It sounds like you want this freedom to be only on your terms.[/quote]

Sellers are free to avail themselves of the marketplace, advertising goods they posses at the price they determine, so long as they do so within the rules established for the regulation of the marketplace. In that context, stating that the freedom of the market is sacrosanct is completely correct, and there is no double standard being advocated. It's also the case that, for other than auctions, roups and exchanges, it's also common commercial practice to rely on privity of negotiations/contract, so, observing the rules and common practice all comments on price should be reserved for private communications.

As far as the current situation is concerned, if you want a change in policy, petition the controllers of the forum.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1322515088' post='1452044']
Sellers are free to avail themselves of the marketplace, advertising goods they posses at the price they determine, so long as they do so within the rules established for the regulation of the marketplace. In that context, stating that the freedom of the market is sacrosanct is completely correct, and there is no double standard being advocated. It's also the case that, for other than auctions, roups and exchanges, it's also common commercial practice to rely on privity of negotiations/contract, so, observing the rules and common practice all comments on price should be reserved for private communications.
[/quote]
I really don't see how you can claim 'freedom of the market is sacrosanct' and at the same time say that this freedom is 'within the rules established for the regulation of the marketplace'. It's logically incoherent. Either the freedom of the market is sacrosanct or it's regulated and therefore not sacrosanct.

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1322515088' post='1452044']
As far as the current situation is concerned, if you want a change in policy, petition the controllers of the forum.
[/quote]
I don't want a change in policy, I think it's fine regulated as it is, without sacrosanct freedom.