Repainting a bass - will it really change the sound?

[The Dark Lord]

My main bass is a 1999 USA Standard Fender Precision. It's a completely standard vintage white with rosewood model. I play it with regular guage Rotosounds. To me, it sounds perfect. Just perfect. Only trouble is ....... it's not black. All of my guitars and basses have been black (mostly with a maply neck) - but this one is white with rosewood. I prefer black basses but I picked this one up in a shop when it was a year old and have not been able to part with it since. I have bought and sold so many other precisions, but can't get another to come close to this one.

I COULD get it repainted in black, but I have been told by a couple of guitar techs that this could alter the sound. In fact, one of them, when agreeing that it was a great sounding bass, advised me not to do ANYTHING with it. He said he would even avoid ever removing the neck for any reason unless he absolutely had to .... as even that could make a difference. His advice was to leave it as it was.

My question is ........ will it really make a difference to the sound if I get the colour of my bass professionally changed to black?

[Ancient Mariner]

It *probably* won't make any difference, unless it's got a thin-skin type finish (unlikely). Most Fenders get that super-smooth paint finish by using a very thick paint, and any effect refinishing might have on resonance will be very small compared to the original finish.

BUT.

To refin it will have to be stripped, possibly taken back to bare wood, resprayed, dried, sanded, sprayed etc etc then rebuilt. The work involved might change the way it plays and feels, and that would have nothing to do with the finish. I've had a guitar refretted, and I no longer wish to play it!

Personally I'd not change it, and instead hunt for an equivalent in black. Besides rosewood & white looks so much better than RW & black, but I would swap the scratchplate to tortoise shell.

[Ou7shined]

It will alter the tone.... but it will be so slight that no one (even yourself) will probably ever detect a difference.

That "luthier" who told you never to take the neck off... never have anything to do with him again. From his arse, he doth speak.

[chris_b]

Why would we know more than your guitar tech?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1317043607' post='1385835']
Why would we know more than your guitar tech?
[/quote]

Indeed, there's quite a few on here, as ou7shined says, that from their arse, speaketh.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1317044800' post='1385858']

Indeed, there's quite a few on here, as ou7shined says, that from their arse, speaketh.
[/quote]
Verily sire.

[lobematt]

I've never done it so don't take my advice to seriously, but I was trying to find a thread on talkbass to link you to (but I couldn't!) but basically he had a normal bass and recorded a few samples and then using the same electronics gaffa'd onto a plank of wood made a few recordings and asked people to guess which was which. The results came back pretty much 50/50, so based on that I'd say the tone's pretty much 90% electronics so I wouldn't worry about it

[xilddx]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1317044800' post='1385858']

Indeed, there's quite a few on here, as ou7shined says, that from their arse, speaketh.
[/quote]

[apa]

It probably wont make any desernable difference what so ever and could be prooven so under the most stringent of scientific tests. Unfortunately your brain may choose to tell you otherwise when it comes back all shiney and black.

A

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317042959' post='1385820']It will alter the tone.... but it will be so slight that no one (even yourself) will probably ever detect a difference. That "luthier" who told you never to take the neck off... never have anything to do with him again. From his arse, he doth speak.[/quote]

At the very least he can't put a neck back on properly. Good enough reason not to use him as a tech.

[Muzz]

[quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1317046243' post='1385887']
I've never done it so don't take my advice to seriously, but I was trying to find a thread on talkbass to link you to (but I couldn't!) but basically he had a normal bass and recorded a few samples and then using the same electronics gaffa'd onto a plank of wood made a few recordings and asked people to guess which was which. The results came back pretty much 50/50, so based on that I'd say the tone's pretty much 90% electronics so I wouldn't worry about it
[/quote]
This. I've got a FrankenP-Bass with ash body, maple neck and board, corian nut, Schaller bridge, and I've got a Warwick Fortress with a maple body, wenge neck and board, brass nut and Warwick bridge. They feel and play very very differently. They both have Wizard Big pickups. Amplified, they sound 90% the same. Once the band starts up at a gig, they sound 99% the same.

[lobematt]

By the way I have a Warwick, maple body, wenge/wenge neck and board. Nice bass hehe

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1317050737' post='1385983']
Amplified, they sound 90% the same. Once the band starts up at a gig, they sound 99% the same.
[/quote]

Yep. I suspect this comment in particular is very true.

I think some of you are being a little harsh on the "don't remove your neck" guitar tech. He has set up my guitars and basses for a while and always does a good job. I hear what he says ..... that ANY change you make to an instrument could possibly make a difference ...... and if you are 100 happy with the sound you've got, then why change a thing.

[xgsjx]

Dare I say, he whom say's don't remove the neck, probably doesn't like Black basses & is most likely just trying to discourage you.
I stripped my bass of black paint & it's loads better! Just in looks though, I don't think it actually sounds any different.

Sell it to your tecky & buy a black one.

[Sercet]

I had a Wal bass refinished. I sounded better before the refinish.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1317046243' post='1385887']
I've never done it so don't take my advice to seriously, but I was trying to find a thread on talkbass to link you to (but I couldn't!) but basically he had a normal bass and recorded a few samples and then using the same electronics gaffa'd onto a plank of wood made a few recordings and asked people to guess which was which. The results came back pretty much 50/50, so based on that I'd say the tone's pretty much 90% electronics so I wouldn't worry about it
[/quote]
I remember that thread. Very interesting results.

[mononick]

ive refinished a couple of basses from thick poly paint to thinner nitro paint and i must admit i cant really tell if their is a difference in the tone of either of the basses. maybe my ears arent as hot as other peoples but i really wouldnt worry

[Cat Burrito]

Does anyone know which breed of dog it is that will actually be able to tell the difference?

[Ancient Mariner]

Hearing is a funny thing. Listening and trying to discern small differences in tone will fatigue your 'ears' very quickly - say 30min or so - to the point where one starts imagining differences. Plus for many, their tone will be from their amps and EQ settings (and any effects they use) and small changes will be invisible.

On a related subject, some years ago there was a lot of scepticism over cryogenic treatment of valves. I had several matched pairs of valves and access to liquid nitrogen, so..... I did some experiments with treated and untreated valves. Now some people can't hear the difference between an EL34, a 6CA7 and a 6L6, while to others the tonal differences are very striking. I got my wife to swap around the different valves for me while I was outside the room, and kept a cover over the amp so I couldn't see what was inside. I was able to identify every valve that she put in the amp correctly, and whether it had been treated or was standard. However posting the results on an amp building forum created a LOT of scepticism - they wanted to know that cryogenic treatment made no difference, and were not willing to even try the valves themselves.

Now in a band setting, most people couldn't tell a P from a J or if you use Trace Eliot or Hartke amplification when they're stood in the audience, let alone how many layers of paint the body has. But the thing is, that doesn't matter - all that counts is whether the instrument feels and sounds right to us. And that's a reason it may be better not to meddle, unless you're one of lifes 'techs'.

[proshine artworks]

the way i refinish bass guitar's ive never had anyone say that the tone as ever changed

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1317041201' post='1385791']
To refin it will have to be stripped, possibly taken back to bare wood...[/quote]
Why? Fender never used to:

[url="http://www.curtisnovak.com/vintage/JazzBass59/"]http://www.curtisnov...age/JazzBass59/[/url]

If the existing finish is sound, all it needs is a light sand to key the surface, a thorough degrease & then go straight over with the new colour. Black will obliterate any underlying colour very quickly - possibly in one pass.

Pete.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' timestamp='1323456484' post='1463671']
Why? Fender never used to:

[url="http://www.curtisnovak.com/vintage/JazzBass59/"]http://www.curtisnov...age/JazzBass59/[/url]

If the existing finish is sound, all it needs is a light sand to key the surface, a thorough degrease & then go straight over with the new colour. Black will obliterate any underlying colour very quickly - possibly in one pass.

Pete.
[/quote]
That's all well and good if the existing finish and the proposed new finish are guaranteed to be compatible.

[janmaat]

I'd guess as much as it sounds 'white' now, it will sound 'black' after the refinish.

[StraightSix]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1317041201' post='1385791']
Personally I'd not change it, and instead hunt for an equivalent in black. Besides rosewood & white looks so much better than RW & black, but I would swap the scratchplate to tortoise shell.[/quote]

I would agree - white and rosewood board with tort pickguard is the only type of white I like.

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' timestamp='1317071869' post='1386491']
On a related subject, some years ago there was a lot of scepticism over cryogenic treatment of valves. I had several matched pairs of valves and access to liquid nitrogen, so..... I did some experiments with treated and untreated valves. Now some people can't hear the difference between an EL34, a 6CA7 and a 6L6, while to others the tonal differences are very striking. I got my wife to swap around the different valves for me while I was outside the room, and kept a cover over the amp so I couldn't see what was inside. I was able to identify every valve that she put in the amp correctly, and whether it had been treated or was standard. However posting the results on an amp building forum created a LOT of scepticism - they wanted to know that cryogenic treatment made no difference, and were not willing to even try the valves themselves.
[/quote]

Dare I say it but I agree again

I have experienced the voodoo that is cryo valves...tis real

[KingBollock]

My only worry would be that if it's away for a long time while being refinished, out of anticipation you'll develop a nostalgic and distorted view of the way it sounds. So when it comes back,even though it sounds the same as when it left, your memory of it will be different. If you see what I mean.