More than 4?

[Bilbo]

OK - I get the five string thing. I can even see the point in the six (Anthony Jackson is soooooo musical). But what music are you people playing on 7, 8, 9 or 11 string basses? All I ever hear is sub-bass tractor noises and pseudo guitar noodling, all circus tricks and never anything I would call enjoyable music (and, trust me, I am not narrow minded about it) . I have been out playing and watching live music for three decades now and rarely even see anyone playing a 5-string, never mind a 6. But what and where are you guys with the 9 string basses playing? Or do they never get out of the bedrooms?

Edited November 9, 2007 by bilbo230763

[16Again]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='85902' date='Nov 9 2007, 01:32 PM']All I ever hear is sub-bass tractor noises and pseudo guitar noodling, all circus tricks and never anything I would call enjoyable music (and, trust me, I am not narrow minded about it) . I have been out playing and watching live music for three decades now and rarely even see anyone playing a 5-string, never mind a 6. But what and where are you guys with the 9 string basses playing? Or do they never get out of the bedrooms?[/quote]

I agree with you bilbo!
I'm a firm believer that if you cant do it with 4 or 5 strings, why bother doing it at all! Get a guitar. IMHO.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Whilst I predominantly play 4s, I have a CGDAE tuned Fretless 5, A GDAEB tuned fretted 5, and a CGDAEB Fretted 6.

The range of a 4 is generally fine for most of us, but the 6 (for example) can open up some nice possibilities- The Sub "E" tones are nice to have from time to time (and are a necessity if your band drop-tunes and you don't want to!) Just play along and from time to time, instead of going up, go lower instead.
As for the high C, It gives an alternate method of reaching the higher notes without chasing up the fretboard.
The C can be barred very nicely with any tone on the D if wou want to add a bit more depth to higher passages.

I played one of mt best gigs on my 6. It was with a pop-punk style band. I re-worked a quiet intro part to be played as harmonics on the C and G strings, the First note of the first verse was a "C" Played it low (about five octaves from where I had been) and landed it in perfect time. The effect was devastating. We played a good gig, and then they sacked me on favour of someone less experienced and more malleable!!

Everything has its place, I suppose!

[queenofthedepths]

Well, I hardly ever play 4-strings any more - I feel like I have a lot more freedom with 5, 6 or 7... it's nice to be able to go a bit more than an octave below a guitar, which is pretty much the point of the 5-string, so when you're playing with a 7 or even 8-string guitarist, that's where extra low strings come in - and there's a fair bit of interesting stuff to be done with a high C or F - you can classify it as noise if you like, but that's subjective really - you could say every bit of music is just noise and "circus tricks" - I'm sure somebody enjoys it...

[wotnwhy]

"All I ever hear is sub-bass tractor noises and pseudo guitar noodling"

the sub-bass tractor noises are probably because whatever system your listening to it through isn't doing it justice. when you start to get [i]really[/i] low, it's more about [b]feeling[/b] the notes than hearing it. and just because you don't seem to like pseudo guitar noodling doesn't mean it's not an apt form of expression.

"(and, trust me, I am not narrow minded about it)"

maby not about that (in your eyes), but sounds like your being slightly narrow minded about this. music is about free expression, yes? and to effectivly and freely express yourself the tool you are using should put as few barriers in the way as possible, yes? obviously some people feel 'confined' as it were by 4-5-6 or even 7 strings and feel the need for more. just because it's more than most people 'need' (and remember, need is an [b]extremely[/b] subjective word*) doesn't mean it's any less justifiable. if you don't like the music expressed on these instruments, fair enough (i've got to admit, most of what i've heard on extreme extended range instruments hasn't really floated my boat). but each to there own eh? wouldn't music get awfull boring very quickly if everyone just stuck to standards and didn't push barriers with instrument creation?

*i mean, we don't really [i]need[/i] 4 strings do we, i'm sure a very musical person create wonderful melodies on a 2 string bass.

[bass_ferret]

Well last time this came up I described ERB players as novelty acts. Caused quite a fuss at the time IIRC.

[The Burpster]

I personally wouldnt consider more than 5 strings, but that is because I do not have the reach or skill......

I used to think "why?' when ever ERB was mentioned but now I just just think "why not?"

It saves having two necks, and you wouldnt be slagging off a player with a twin neck 4 string and 6 string or 12 string guitar would you?

So I ask, whats the difference between ERB and a twin neck? why is one seen as retro cool, and the other seen as freaky modern???

Why discriminate?

[paul, the]

[Stubacca]

I think that clip demonstrates the "why not?" point perfectly - those guys have got the skills and the talent to make those beasts into incredibly expressive instruments.

I'm surprised that anyone questions the 5-string these days - I'd be lost without those low notes, especially the D and Eb - let's face it, the D string on a 4-string bass just isn't low enough sometimes. And whenever I put the low B in, my drummer can't help turning round and grinning.

I can't remember who said it now, but I remember reading an interview in Guitarist mag years ago, when someone said they instantly get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever they hear a note lower than bottom E on a bass - that kind of sums it up for me.

Can't play 6-string for toffee, though - wish I could.

[Machines]

Yves Carbonara looked really into it, Jean Boredin looked well.. bored.. especially at 40 seconds in.

[MB1]

MB1.

[CPBass]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='86039' date='Nov 9 2007, 04:42 PM']"All I ever hear is sub-bass tractor noises and pseudo guitar noodling"

the sub-bass tractor noises are probably because whatever system your listening to it through isn't doing it justice. when you start to get [i]really[/i] low, it's more about [b]feeling[/b] the notes than hearing it. and just because you don't seem to like pseudo guitar noodling doesn't mean it's not an apt form of expression.

"(and, trust me, I am not narrow minded about it)"

maby not about that (in your eyes), but sounds like your being slightly narrow minded about this. music is about free expression, yes? and to effectivly and freely express yourself the tool you are using should put as few barriers in the way as possible, yes? obviously some people feel 'confined' as it were by 4-5-6 or even 7 strings and feel the need for more. just because it's more than most people 'need' (and remember, need is an [b]extremely[/b] subjective word*) doesn't mean it's any less justifiable. if you don't like the music expressed on these instruments, fair enough (i've got to admit, most of what i've heard on extreme extended range instruments hasn't really floated my boat). but each to there own eh? wouldn't music get awfull boring very quickly if everyone just stuck to standards and didn't push barriers with instrument creation?

*i mean, we don't really [i]need[/i] 4 strings do we, i'm sure a very musical person create wonderful melodies on a 2 string bass.[/quote]



Totally Agreed.

I stick to 4 strings as thats what I love playing. If I wanna noodle I play my guitars. Thats just my thing. Each to his own, there is a ear for everything in this world.

[7string]

Like others, I started on a 4 then went to a 6 and then a 7...

I was in a musical situation that I could use the range of a 7 string or a 6 string fretless and I really enjoyed it. I still love playing 4 string basses, in fact I have a soft spot for new country stuff which I'm lucky enough to have a '51 P reissue for....

I can understand why people look down on some ERB players. There are too many videos on YouTube which have players tapping out video game themes (and I really don't understand why!!) or music that seems to me as tapping for tappings sake. In my opinion, the music should dictate the technique and not the other way around.

Great to see a balanced and considered debate here instead of the volleying of insults used elsewhere !!

[gypsymoth]

there's eights and there's eights.

as in a 4 with octave strings, which cones in very handy when doing solo bass, as even most bass players find that boring without some high frequencies, and it is also very handy in a three piece to provide body when the guitar player is noodling.

as with any instrument, there is no rule that you have to use all the notes all the time, but if your instrument does not have the right one .....

anyways tune 5 on the link below is just an eight string, with some pseudo guitar sliding (as opposed to noodling, which is much easier on a four) at the end.
a couple of the other "band' tunes have the eight. or a four or five.

[Guest MoJo]

Quite a topical thread for me in a way. Up until very recently, I have been playing my BB415 Yamaha in both my party and rock bands. Unlike many basschat members, I had no problem adapting to the extra strings when I first switched from a four to a six string bass. After a while the sixer went and was replaced by a four. A couple of years later, I felt the need for a five again and bought a Mexican Jazz V. That lasted about 12 months before being replaced with another four string. I had my BB415 about 8 months now after being mightily impressed by the BB414 and find the BB415 is very easy to play. There's just something that I like in the simplicity of a four that keeps me going back time after time. I have recently bought two identical Yamaha BB300's to use in the rock band. One is to be strung BEAD and the other DADG to cover all the bases. I shall still keep the BB415 for the party band in it's regular BEADG tuning.

In my honest opinion, I think those 9, 10 & 11 string basses are effin ugly. The width of the neck is all out of proportion to the body

Edited November 9, 2007 by bassman2790

[Dood]

I think there is a difference between those who want to play what is traditionally seen as 'bass' and those who want to look outside of the box.

I have no issue with either.. but I see no reason why I should be limited by what others tell me I should be doing as a bass player.

What would have happened if the original stand up basses had six strings to start with???

[paul, the]

[quote name='Stubacca' post='86210' date='Nov 9 2007, 08:10 PM']I'm surprised that anyone questions the 5-string these days - I'd be lost without those low notes, especially the D and Eb - let's face it, the D string on a 4-string bass just isn't low enough sometimes. And whenever I put the low B in, my drummer can't help turning round and grinning.[/quote]

I'm a 4 string player but I really pine for a lower D sometimes.

[BigRedX]

Personally I think that once these instruments go beyond 7 strings (courses) we do an injustice to both the instruments and they're players by still including them as 'bass guitars'. Sure they're capable of all the low notes like a bass, and because they have to cope with the same sorts of stresses as a bass they share a more bass-like construction, but they're also capable of so much more.

What is useful about these istruments is the range of tones available for each note. Even on the best basses the same notes on different strings have a different tone and feel. How many times do you find you're self playing around the 12th fret on the A, when logic says that the same note on the D or G string would be easier. But does it sound as good? Multi-string instruments give you many more possibilities to try out.

For myself I play 4s and 5s tuned B-D and have an E-C 5 being built, but I don't have the hands or the technique for more strings, and besides as I'm also a guitarist and synth player/programmer and I tend to 'orchestrate' when I write, I don't really find myself in a situation where 'ERB' would be the solution.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='dood' post='86360' date='Nov 10 2007, 01:44 AM']I think there is a difference between those who want to play what is traditionally seen as 'bass' and those who want to look outside of the box.

I have no issue with either.. but I see no reason why I should be limited by what others tell me I should be doing as a bass player.

What would have happened if the original stand up basses had six strings to start with???[/quote]
Do one is saying you cant be a novelty act Dood

The way I look at it is this - all the time you can play it like a bass, fretting with one hand and plucking/picking with the other, on the whole neck its a bass guitar. It might be a big ugly bass guitar and I still think the Doodle is the only sexy ERB i've seen. But if you have to play it like a thick and thin stringed tappy thing then thats called a Chapman Stick.

If you can handle the size then playing with more strings is generally easier cos you can constuct all of your lines going across the neck rather than changing hand position. Lots of guys go 5 for the low notes and it is better for playing with horns if the tunes all end up in Bb or Eb. But having said all that nearly all the stuff that is popular enough to be on TV has 4 string bass players. I've never seen more than six strings on any TV musical feature except when Tap did Big Bottom at Leve Earth.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='86389' date='Nov 10 2007, 08:34 AM']Personally I think that once these instruments go beyond 7 strings (courses) we do an injustice to both the instruments and they're players by still including them as 'bass guitars'. Sure they're capable of all the low notes like a bass, and because they have to cope with the same sorts of stresses as a bass they share a more bass-like construction, but they're also capable of so much more.[/quote]

I think you are absolutely right. Because these instruments share a common scale length with their 4 and 5 string brethren, they are classed as Extended Range Basses. I think a more accurate description would be Extended Range Guitars. Not wishing to alienate ERB players of course because many of them, I'm sure view themselves as bass players. Others probably have a wider view and see themselves as musicians. Perhaps a new name should be thought of for these multi-string instruments. After all we don't call it the Chapman Stick Bass do we?

Edited November 10, 2007 by bassman2790

[paul, the]

Chapman Sticks sound awful.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='paul, the' post='86430' date='Nov 10 2007, 11:38 AM']Chapman Sticks sound awful.[/quote]
Says who?

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='16Again' post='85987' date='Nov 9 2007, 03:28 PM']I agree with you bilbo!
I'm a firm believer that if you cant do it with 4 or 5 strings, why bother doing it at all! Get a guitar. IMHO. [/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IofD4lSq0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IofD4lSq0[/url]

This is what can be done with a 6 string, can't be done with a guitar, very hard to do with a 5 string unless it's fitted with a high 'C' string, and I don't think can be done with a 4 string.

Obviously this all depends on your creativity, open mindeness and above all desire to want to play something a little bit different, and push the bounderies a bit.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='86520' date='Nov 10 2007, 04:41 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IofD4lSq0"][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IofD4lSq0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IofD4lSq0[/url][/url]

This is what can be done with a 6 string, can't be done with a guitar, very hard to do with a 5 string unless it's fitted with a high 'C' string, and I don't think can be done with a 4 string.

Obviously this all depends on your creativity, open mindeness and above all desire to want to play something a little bit different, and push the bounderies a bit.[/quote]
Is that the best you can do? I'd say the looper is more important than the 6 string and with the greatest respect to Steve (i dont think it was intended as a performance) was boring boring boring!

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='86525' date='Nov 10 2007, 04:55 PM']Is that the best you can do? I'd say the looper is more important than the 6 string and with the greatest respect to Steve (i dont think it was intended as a performance) was boring boring boring![/quote]

No, it's not the best I can do......it was purely meant as an example of someone playing a 6 string bass.

He couldn't obviously do it without the looperlative, but that immaterial, it's the piece of music that is important.