Philosophical precision question

[ARGH]

[quote name='chris_b' post='80732' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:21 AM']For all the people who agreed with a). No, Leo made a good bass, but didn't get it right first time because he quickly made significant changes to the first Precision. He came up with practically a new bass by changing the pickup, body shape and bridge. Fender, then CBS, have changed everything else several times over the years so don't think that point a) is anywhere near accurate.

I think that since the 70's the Jazz has been recorded more than the Precision, so the Jazz is probably the sound of choice to most people these days.[/quote]


Cant agree with that,because the 'studio' bands were kinda on the wane at that point,Actives were coming in,musical genres springing up everywhere,and alot more choice was around regarding just Bass's in general...

Saying that given the 'Bands' thang at the time,most Bassists would and have used a Fender P at some time or another,if not maybe a J.

[chris_b]

Yep, I meant to say:

.... so the Jazz is probably the [b]Fender[/b] sound of choice to most people these days.

[SJA]

the Jazz is far more prevalent in R&B, jazz, funk and modern pop
but I think the P bass is still the standard tone for rock-

that Pbass-strung-with-roundwounds-played-with-a-pick tone is still everywhere- emo, skate-punk, even metal.

Edited October 29, 2007 by SJA

[Beedster]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='80728' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:19 AM']then saw Walbassists’ ’73 sunburst P-bass on Basschat this summer. Heavily modded – converted to fretless with ebony board, narrowed neck, added J p/u at the bridge, re-wired with SD vintage/antiquity II replacement p/u’s. Ruined as a vintage bass of course, but it could have been custom built for me.[/quote]

And me . I sooooo nearly bought it and so regret not doing so! Please promise me that, if you ever let it go, you'll let me know first.
Chers
Chris

[Beedster]

[quote name='SJA' post='80748' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:48 AM']the Jazz is far more prevalent in R&B, jazz and modern pop
but I think the P bass is still the standard for rock-

that Pbass-strung-with-roundwounds-played-with-a-pick tone is still everywhere- emo, skate-punk, even metal.[/quote]

It's likely a reflection of the music I watch - although having said that I'm fairly broad in taste - but I certainly get the impression that the Precision is the current Fender of choice. I say that because I'm sad enough to actually examine very closely any live footage to see just what the bassist has around his neck .
I guess what is so amazing, even given my praise for Precisions above and elsewhere, is just how dominant Fender still are. Certainly they give basses to top players and no doubt pay them to play them, be photographed with them, and plug them, but even so, I'm sure all all those guys played Fenders aren't endorsed? I often wonder how Modulus feel looking at all the pics of Flea with his '62 Fender Jazz - to which he seems to be joined at the hip if there's a camera around - especially as it appears Flea had to revert to his Moduli on the recent tour as his Fenders weren't cutting it live (I won't even mention his laughable appearance in the 'Tell Me Baby' video with a Fender Custom Shop Jaco Relic Fretless. Damn, I said I wasn't going to mention that ).
Chris

[Cantdosleepy]

Some lovely old P tone courtesy of QOTSA:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg[/url]

Edited October 29, 2007 by Cantdosleepy

[LukeFRC]

its simplicity is the best thing. it works, has two controls that generally I just leave full 'on' and sounds ace (well my one does)
its not going to break and it will sound great whatever its going through. It does what i want my main bass to do.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='80762' date='Oct 29 2007, 12:09 PM']Some lovely old P tone courtesy of QOTSA:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg[/url][/quote]

That was a bit tasty....all warm and boxy

[Tait]

[quote name='chris_b' post='80291' date='Oct 28 2007, 12:47 AM']You can love your Fenders but, in my opinion Lakland, Shuker, Sadowsky, Alleva Coppolo and dozens of other companies consistently make far better Precision basses than Leo ever did.[/quote]

yeah, but none of them would be around with out Leo in the first place, would they? they've taken his idea and made it, in some people's opinion, a better bass. but the fact that so many have copied it has, in a way, made it even more famous.

[thumbo]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='80762' date='Oct 29 2007, 12:09 PM']Some lovely old P tone courtesy of QOTSA:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg[/url][/quote]

Tone! I sometimes get stuck in a rut with the sound of my P-bass and go off it a bit but that changes very quickly after listening to a spot of his filthy tone.

[clauster]

For me, the clue's in the thread title................Philosophy :wacko:

Until I took a took a break from bass at 28 years old, right from my second bass I'd always had Precisions apart from 1 US Jazz.

Now I've got a Warwick. It's great.... great tone, wide range of sounds, soooo adjustable, small & light, looks great etc etc



But I wish I'd got a decent P instead (as I did when I had my Jazz).............................................Why?



Because once you've got it set up properly all you can do is play!


It's Zen and the art of Bass Playing!

[paul, the]

The Precision is the sexiest bass in the world. In tones and looks.

Before I found out about Jamerson that pickguard tail gave me goosebumps.


I think the j-pup at the bridge ruins the look a bit but it's a worthy trade-off.

[clauster]

I've always liked the look of a bridge p/up on a P.

(but then again, once upon a time i thought my ex-wife was attractive )

Edited October 29, 2007 by clauster

[Shaggy]

[quote name='Beedster' post='80749' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:48 AM']And me . I sooooo nearly bought it and so regret not doing so! Please promise me that, if you ever let it go, you'll let me know first.
Chers
Chris[/quote]
You know it! Those two basses belong together (Annifrid and Agnetha? Right era anyway).
As a biker I think the comparison between Fender and Harley is a valid one – both stuck with an iconic product that they can’t radically change without losing their customer base (although Harley made a brave attempt with the V-Rod). Hence the endless special editions. As such Fender, Gibson, and Rickenbacker fulfil an important niche in the market and shouldn’t really be knocked for it – there’s enough really excellent and truly innovative bass makers at low and high ends of the market; far, far more choice than when I started out on bass.
(I ride an old Norton by the way – long since extinct)

[Beedster]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='81289' date='Oct 30 2007, 03:25 PM']You know it! Those two basses belong together (Annifrid and Agnetha? Right era anyway).[/quote]

Exectly my point .
I'm keeping some money on stanby in case you decide to sell amyway.
+1 for the rest of your post also. Related in a strange but just about justifiable way, I rode an old Enfield around India a few years back. It wouldn't have been the same experience on a Honda
Chris

[sk8]

[quote name='thumbo' post='80251' date='Oct 27 2007, 09:13 PM']Anyway, if it aint broke don't fix it.[/quote]
No, no, no!

If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='acidbass' post='80290' date='Oct 28 2007, 12:38 AM']It's just such a simple and great sounding bass - if you try and improve upon it, you just overcomplicate it and remove the very essence which makes it great - simplicity! Always one of my favourite basses.[/quote]

It's the AK47 of basses...

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='81632' date='Oct 31 2007, 10:14 AM']It's the AK47 of basses...[/quote]

When you absolutely, positively etc etc etc

Great description!

[martthebass]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='80728' date='Oct 29 2007, 11:19 AM']+1 completely
It took me thirty years to get the point of the Fender P. Like Chris, I’d always considered them strictly a one-trick pony – thuddy, old-school, blues-rock. Especially as a mainly fretless player, you really need that bridge pick-up to add a bit of bite to your “mwah” - at least as an option - but I’ve never liked fretless Jazzes that much.
Anyway, last winter I joined a ‘60’s rock/R&B band as a side-project to the main covers band, and fancied a “retro” bass purely – I’m ashamed to say – for image. As the two guitarists have red Strats I was kind of looking for a red MIJ P-bass, briefly considered the Sting signature, then saw Walbassists’ ’73 sunburst P-bass on Basschat this summer. Heavily modded – converted to fretless with ebony board, narrowed neck, added J p/u at the bridge, re-wired with SD vintage/antiquity II replacement p/u’s. Ruined as a vintage bass of course, but it could have been custom built for me.
Well, plugged through a Trace valve head it was the tone I’d been looking for all my life, and with the neck mods and pro setup played like a dream. Yes, my active MM Sabre does a pretty good imitation of a P on neck p/u, but no bass I’ve tried gives that plummy, harmonic-rich, sock-in-the-gut sound of a P-bass. The addition of a J bridge pick-up is a revelation, makes it so much more versatile, and whilst string choice and a good set-up is crucial for any bass, for a P-bass I’d say it’s critical. And if it’s good enough for Pino, it’s good enough for me! [/quote]

+1 again.
I picked up a MIA P from this site a couple of months ago after being Precision free for 20 years. When I first played it it sounded like my Sterling with all the tone rolled off and 30 year old strings. However, you grow to love it and wonder how you managed without that tone in your armory. If I wanted a P to sound like a Jazz I would sell it and buy a Jazz..simple as.
Now, with the faults, 20 frets ok, but why would I want to go much above 14th on old school stuff? If I want stratospheric I take the Thumb.
Punch, well the P has got punch in spades, but if I want to cause spontaneous bowel movements at 50 paces then it's the Sterling.

20 years ago I sold my '57 JV reissue (pillock) because I wanted a more edgy sound, easier top fret access, a better slap sound (even though I couldn't and still can't slap for boll****) and something that loooked a bit more modern. Now, don't get me wrong I don't think I could ever manage with a Precision as my only bass but I'm coming around to thinking that unless you're 100% slap/EMO-Goth you just gotta have one to hand.

Edited October 31, 2007 by martthebass

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Beedster' post='81602' date='Oct 31 2007, 08:16 AM']Exectly my point .
I'm keeping some money on stanby in case you decide to sell amyway.
+1 for the rest of your post also. Related in a strange but just about justifiable way, I rode an old Enfield around India a few years back. It wouldn't have been the same experience on a Honda
Chris[/quote]

I was thinking in terms of motorbikes whilst reading this thread,

But came up with this analogy;

Precision = Harley Davidson
Warwicks = BMW
Ibanez / Yamahas = Suzuki / Kawasaki / Honda and er... YAMAHA!

There's a definite parallel there in terms of design philosophy and engineering execution. It's also fairly safe to say that both types of manufacturer aim at specific areas or niches in the marketplace and that their products, almost by definition, sell well in their own domestic market.

Then there are the custom boys and "Streetfighter" modifications... Equally prevalent in both worlds.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Lfalex v1.1

[SJA]

one thing I've found is that if a producer/engineer manages to lose a p bass in the mix in a rock track, then it's proof they're utterly useless.

[ARGH]

[quote name='SJA' post='82178' date='Nov 1 2007, 11:32 AM']one thing I've found is that if a producer/engineer manages to lose a p bass in the mix in a rock track, then it's proof they're utterly useless.[/quote]


Thats why when I first EVER went into the studio,the guy looked at what I had and handed me an ash bodied 70s P.

If you have a Fender the rest is easy! If a soundguy/or girl,cant get a half decent tone from a Leo designed bass,then they aint worth salt!

Edited November 1, 2007 by ARGH

[cheddatom]

I really don't buy all this hype. I can get a good sound to cut through using a Fender, or a Yamaha, or a Schecter, or an Ibanez or...........

[ARGH]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='82204' date='Nov 1 2007, 12:33 PM']I really don't buy all this hype. I can get a good sound to cut through using a Fender, or a Yamaha, or a Schecter, or an Ibanez or...........[/quote]

Same here onstage,but in the studio its a totally different arena.
Ive tried Ibanez and warwicks...numerous stuff,but the Fender sound just...well it fits,they are bulky,heavy,and crude...but they work,and engineers smile when they come out of the case.

[cheddatom]

I consider myself to be a bit of a recording engineer, and my comment was made with my engineer's hat on.