Bent bit of tin...

[Telebass]

The Streamer Std 5 I had for a while had a one-piece jobby somewhere between a BBOT and a BAII. Perfectly adequate. And 'adequate' means 'up to the job', not 'barely makes it'...why bother with excess capability you'll never use?

[neepheid]

[quote name='henry norton' post='709736' date='Jan 12 2010, 09:40 AM']Funnily enough, the standard Gibson 3 point bridge I have on my EB-0 has to be one of the most maligned pieces of hardware ever - maybe even more than the BBOT, yet it's adjustable in just about every direction and weighs a ton! There's just no pleasing some people [/quote]

I have to stop you there, chief. It's on posts which can pull out of the body (had that problem on an Epi EB-3 and ended up having to epoxy them in place, but heard of that problem on a Gibson SG bass too), the saddles are not individually adjustable for string height, only at each side of the bridge (I had to muck about with swapping out spare saddles to get an overall action I was pleased with on my Epi Les Paul - the G saddle is gold, the rest of the bridge is chrome, go figure) and if you take off all the strings, it falls off.

The Gibson three point bridge is inferior to the Fender bridge in terms of adjustability and practicality. The only reason it remains on my Les Paul is the carved top, otherwise I'd have put a Hipshot Supertone (which gives you individually adjustable string height AND lateral position as well as even more mass and improved bridge to body contact) on it right way.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Protium' post='709378' date='Jan 11 2010, 09:06 PM']I prefer the Gotoh 203. Essentially the same but with grooves on the outer saddles to stop them moving over the base plate when you play. Though I do tend to play pretty hard.
I couldn't get the action low enough on a BAII as the base plate is too thick.[/quote]

Ummm my MIA "BBOT" has the same grooves to stop sideways movements!
I've got my stock MIA Standard Jazz and a Jazz with a BAII, to my ears there is no noticable difference in tone or sustain. I suppose if I sat down and really studied it there may be, but I wouldn't say it's noticable in a gig setting!

It is also worth noting that my housemate and myself compared his MIM bridge to my MIA bridge, and the difference was substantial, the MIM was thinner and didn't have the grub-nut canals/grooves mentioned above.

My MIA is perfect and I wouldn't change the bridge for anything
Si

[henry norton]

[quote name='neepheid' post='709799' date='Jan 12 2010, 11:55 AM']I have to stop you there, chief. It's on posts which can pull out of the body (had that problem on an Epi EB-3 and ended up having to epoxy them in place, but heard of that problem on a Gibson SG bass too), the saddles are not individually adjustable for string height, only at each side of the bridge (I had to muck about with swapping out spare saddles to get an overall action I was pleased with on my Epi Les Paul - the G saddle is gold, the rest of the bridge is chrome, go figure) and if you take off all the strings, it falls off.

The Gibson three point bridge is inferior to the Fender bridge in terms of adjustability and practicality. The only reason it remains on my Les Paul is the carved top, otherwise I'd have put a Hipshot Supertone (which gives you individually adjustable string height AND lateral position as well as even more mass and improved bridge to body contact) on it right way.[/quote]
Yeah I agree they're not that great, although the big problem of the posts pulling out isn't actually cured by using a Supertone bridge. Maybe that's why the old Schaller 460 bridges came with their own posts and inserts. I've never really had an issue with the string heights but I hate the way it falls off when you take the strings off.

BTW, most gold parts are chrome underneath so you could probably bring out the chrome in your rogue saddle with an evening of Brasso and elbow grease

[4 Strings]

The original Precisions had the strings through the body and so all the bridge had to do was, just that, bridge the strings. The tension of the string was directly relayed to the body by the metal string eyelets at the back. Vibration went through the saddles, the adjusting screws to the base plate which spread it through the body. Increasing the mass of the plate would have little effect other than providing some resistance to the vibration path. Only compression loads were required to be met by the bridge and string anchoring components and so light materials are entirely suitable, slight flexibility being beneficial to ensure even contact with the body.

The later bridges have much more work to do to hold the tension of the strings as well as providing a path to the body. The screws that hold the bridge down are now dealing with shear loads and the bent bit with holes at the end being further bent by a bending moment. The tendancy is for the string tension to rip the bridge to be ripped off the surface of the body, and so strong fixing is required meaning a heavier base would help. The bent end is now required to anchor the string and the tension on it varies with the vibration. If this is flexible it will absorb energy from the string and so sustain will be lost.

I would therefore suggest that for the string-through-body types a lightweight bridge is beneficial, for the top loading type a heavier bridge will be the better compromise (losing the benefits of the string-through-body design).

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='710007' date='Jan 12 2010, 02:08 PM']I would therefore suggest that for the string-through-body types a lightweight bridge is beneficial, for the top loading type a heavier bridge will be the better compromise (losing the benefits of the string-through-body design).[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense. I've got a BBOT on the string through and a badass on the top loader and it feels right that way.

[Sibob]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='710007' date='Jan 12 2010, 02:08 PM']I would therefore suggest that for the string-through-body types a lightweight bridge is beneficial, for the top loading type a heavier bridge will be the better compromise (losing the benefits of the string-through-body design).[/quote]

Agreed, excellent conclusion!
My MIA that I spoke of is through-body, and obviously all BAII's are top loaded. I would suggest that they are comparable solutions, and it's the top loaded 'BBOT' bridges that people are specifically at odds with!

Si

[chris_b]

[quote name='Telebass' post='709773' date='Jan 12 2010, 10:19 AM']....Perfectly adequate. And 'adequate' means 'up to the job', not 'barely makes it'...why bother with excess capability you'll never use?....[/quote]
I would guess Fender made the change from “through body” to the current bridge design in order to cut production costs. All Leo's basses came with foam mutes, back then, so sustain and tone wasn't high on anyone's list and as the bass amps in the 50’s were pretty basic no one would have noticed anyway.

These days, adding a Fat finger or high mass bridge might improve tone and sustain depending on what problems your bass had in the first place and you’ll probably notice it, or not, depending on what kind of music you’re playing.

I've got graphite bars in the neck of my bass. Does that make a difference? Yes. Is it an important difference? Not necessarily, but for me, with the amp I've got and the music I play, all these features are building blocks to the sound I want.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='709418' date='Jan 11 2010, 09:32 PM']It might be worth bering in mind than when Leo designed these things, It doubtful he was expecting them to survive for 20, 30+ years...[/quote]

Do you mean Leo Fender or Leo Quan (inventor of the Badass bridge)?

[tom1946]

Hmm

I can't comment really because I'm not nearly good enough to make a pronouncement on bridges.

Suffice to say that I have a Gotoh 201 (?) that I fitted to one of my Jazz bass's and the only thing I noticed was that the action was high and I couldn't lower it enough so I'm back on a BBOT which works fine.
All IMHO.

Tom.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Quite true. At the end of the day, the old BPOT is fine and fit for purpose. I've had a couple of Jazzes with BadAss II bridges and added a Gotoh 201 to another. The biggest change I saw with the Gotoh was added tuning stability & not particularly more sustain, but more clarity throughout the tonal spectrum. It did make a difference. Again, there's nothing wrong with the standard bridge and the replacements just seem to add a little icing on the cake at the end of the day.

I've also had two Jazzes with through body stringing. That does make a bigger difference, gaining you a lot more bottom end sustain, with the whole body effectively becoming the bridge.

[mrcrow]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='709418' date='Jan 11 2010, 09:32 PM']It might be worth bering in mind than when Leo designed these things, It doubtful he was expecting them to survive for 20, 30+ years...[/quote]

correct...they had to sell and clear the showroom...end of exercise

[Telebass]

Perzakly! And, for completeness, the black standard Precision you saw has a standard BBOT! For the 2nd set, I used the 51RI, with the (entirely usable) 2-saddle string thru bridge.
Ashtrays! I like them ashtrays...

[4 Strings]

Yep, this is all true (including, I'm sure, the comments about a certain member's playing).

I must say that, in the thick of a gig, or even a recording, there can't be many who could point out a change in bridge, the type of finish material, the 'tone' wood used, even the type of strings. The subtleties of painstaking and expensive choices such as these are rather lost in a cheap curly lead let alone a mix.

Whilst I am only happy when playing with a sound I like, this will be despite the bridge type, which, so long as its strong enough and doesn't buzz, rattle or cause breakages, will be judged on how easy it is to get the strings through and adjust. Bit like a football ref, the best ones aren't noticed.

[Prosebass]

Bent Tin is good, obviously....





His 63 model (or is it a 60 ?) is still for sale at $45,000

Edited January 24, 2010 by Prosebass

[velvetkevorkian]

...I'd settle for the shirt.

[bumnote]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='716625' date='Jan 18 2010, 02:31 PM']...I'd settle for the shirt.[/quote]

You have shirts and Ill have the amp

[mrcrow]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='716603' date='Jan 18 2010, 02:06 PM'][b]Bent Tin is good, obviously[/b]....





His 63 model is still for sale at $45,000 [/quote]

you arent referring to jaco are you...

what price perfection

[henry norton]

[quote name='mrcrow' post='716895' date='Jan 18 2010, 07:42 PM']you arent referring to jaco are you...

what price perfection[/quote]

If Jimi Hendrix had just a couple of guitars he used for everything he did rather than having a constant supply of anonymous new Fenders (& smashing the s##t out of them), his guitars might now be thought of as something special just like some people think Jaco's Jazz basses are. The magic's in the player.

I'd still have a '63 Jazz and the 360 rig though.....

[4 Strings]

But these two guitars aren't the same. The one on its own has lost more finish than the one Jaco is playing and so could be a later photo. However, if you look at the top of the body, underneath the divine forearm, you see that there is more wear on guitar His Jolly Self is playing. Can't be both.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='716603' date='Jan 18 2010, 02:06 PM']His 63 model is still for sale at $45,000 [/quote]
But imagine how much it would be worth if it had a Badass fitted ... no one could possibly afford it then.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='721222' date='Jan 22 2010, 02:28 PM']But these two guitars aren't the same. The one on its own has lost more finish than the one Jaco is playing and so could be a later photo. However, if you look at the top of the body, underneath the divine forearm, you see that there is more wear on guitar His Jolly Self is playing. Can't be both.[/quote]

Plus the frets seem to have fallen off the one he's playing!

For the record I like Schaller 3D bridges. Easily adjustable string spacing is a useful option - and they look cool.

Jon.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='721222' date='Jan 22 2010, 02:28 PM']But these two guitars aren't the same. The one on its own has lost more finish than the one Jaco is playing and so could be a later photo. However, if you look at the top of the body, underneath the divine forearm, you see that there is more wear on guitar His Jolly Self is playing. Can't be both.[/quote]

They are not the same basses, the top one is the fretless 'bass of doom' from 62 and the one for sale is his fretted from 1960 , I think