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Shockwave

Barefaced T'Vintage Review.

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Not a million miles from what will be my SA450 T'DM combo then.

I shall report back and review in the Barefaced forum when it arrives

Shep

UPDATE - Just heard from Alex, likely to be new year it arrives...

Edited by pantherairsoft

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[quote name='BB2000' post='689142' date='Dec 19 2009, 03:47 PM']Allegedly. There was no proof that the email circulating was from Jones. When I had a query about my Phil Jones briefcase a few years back I emailed the company and received a reply from the man himself. I found him to be very courteous, and extremely honest in his response.[/quote]

The Phil Jones email thang was before my time so I shouldn't comment on it.

But I did have a fairly extensive email correspondence with Phil Jones during 2008 which could easily have gone "the wrong way" because I was pointing out numerous errors and typos in his manuals.

Far from reacting badly, rudely or arrogantly, he was delighted to get the feedback and was a pleasure to deal with.

Just saying ...

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[quote name='Musicman20' post='689394' date='Dec 19 2009, 09:15 PM']Names and logos aren't anything, but I really think the BF ones could do with a change. All IMO of course.[/quote]

Yes, like that tedious Marshall thing with the joined-up writing, and as for Hiwatt - well it's just incrediblylame - looks like a 'sixties taxi company sign :)

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[quote name='Ou7shined' post='685408' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:54 PM']To my knowledge I have only witnessed 1 BF cab in the flesh and I am not surprised by Shockwave's observations on lack of bottom-end and finishing quality.
The one I saw was put through it's paces against several other pricey cabs and it came out by far the bottom of the heap for sound (hence why Alex sprung to it's defence and offered the unique statement about not being able to hear them properly unless in a live situation), finish quality and (subjectively) aesthetics but it was undeniably the lightest cab in the room.[/quote]

Rich, you know my feelings about this. :) Seriously, eq-d correctly (a point I will keep making!) in a band situation I'd take my Compact (for rock at least) over most of the other cabs I've used, including all those at Moffat. I preferred my early Trace 4x10 (although it didn't handle the lows as well) but it also weighed over 100lbs. Even with my back problems I can carry my Compact with on hand (heck, with one finger!). I'm not keen on the finish and detailing but Alex has made an excellent offer to me in that respect. Ultimately I'm pretty happy with the sound and the weight is an absolute godsend; the rest is just gravy.

Edited by 4000

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[quote name='BottomEndian' post='685625' date='Dec 15 2009, 07:54 PM']A/Bd my Vintage against WoT's Bergs and warwickhunt's Aguilars a few months back. Not a gig situation or anything, so maybe not the ideal test, but neither the Bergs nor the Aggies really did it for me. A little "thin". But I have to agree totally with the point that it's horses for courses. I mean, personally, I can't grasp why someone would want a tweeter in a bass cab, but people do. It's their choice.[/quote]

The only Berg I've tried was at last year's Bass Day and I hated it/them. Couldn't get anything like what I would consider to be a useable gigging tone. I think many people are probably aware of my thoughts about my Aggie GS112s as well. I much prefer my Compact to those. FWIW though we all play differently, eq differently, have different basses, different tone goals, play in different bands; by all means read reviews but ultimately you need to try things yourself. Rich for instance playing one of his basses through his rig sounds completely different to me playing the same bass through the same rig with the same eq. He naturally generates a much bigger tone than me, so he doesn't need the same things from his gear.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='686478' date='Dec 16 2009, 04:27 PM']Indeed. 1x 2x10 Neo vs Compact vs Vintage. I've been there. Heard all I needed to hear and BF didn't compare favourably.

They failed on looks, build, volume, quality of sound. OK, they were light... but so are the neos with which they were being compared.

Alex was there. I was there... and so was somebody who was going to buy one of Alex's cab. No surprises that he didn't buy a BF in the end... and walked away with two of the other cabs they were tested against (and that was for portability and the modular rig as opposed to needing two to compare to the BF)

My opinions are built on experience... unlike others around here.[/quote]

No, your opinions are just that; opinions. You have an obvious preference for a particular make of gear. Nothing wrong with that, but you appear to be expecting everyone else to have the same preferences as you. As I've said to you previously, when I tried out my Sei 4 it was through EBS and it sounded fabulous. I tried it through Ampeg and it wasn't so good. I tried my Rick CS through both and it sounded 100 times better through the Ampeg. Its all down to personal preference and what you're trying to achieve. If I'd preferred to play my Ricks (my main gigging basses) through EBS I would've bought EBS. My Compact works for my Ricks. It's not perfect, but it's very good. It may not work for other stuff. The fact that Alex gives such a long trial period and actually sends them round the country surely allows people to get past the hype themselves. If they don't like them they go back. Simple as. What's the problem? You may prefer GBs to Rickenbackers, but I don't!

It seems that beyond the issue of personal taste one or two people have an axe to grind against Alex (indeed I'm aware of a member - who will remain nameless - who has pretty much admitted this). I'm not sure why this is. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion of his cabs. What people seem to be missing is that, as with every other piece of gear, opinion will vary from person to person. I hated my Aguilars. Would I tell someone else not to buy them or that they don't live up to the hype? No, Id say try some for yourself and see whether or not you like them. Both Dave Perry and my mate Stu really like theirs (Dave bought his off me!). That's fine by me, and I'm not going to try and shoot them down in flames for liking them or attempt to tell them they're actually wrong. Because they're not, and neither am I.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='686507' date='Dec 16 2009, 04:49 PM']I'm experienced enough to hear when a cab is going to cut it at a gig or not.

No tops in non gig environment = no top at the gig.
No note definition in a non gig environment = no note definition at the gig.
Running a TD650 at 11 o'clock and the cab is not keeping up with a 2x10 = problems at a gig.

Sometimes, you don't need to gig an item to know how its going to perform. Common sense prevails... but then again, I do spend my life gigging and been through a lot of gear to know how things perform.[/quote]

Case in point. I generally hate tweeters (yes, even live), so what I need from a live tone will probably differ completely from yours. And we are BOTH RIGHT.

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[quote name='4000' post='690329' date='Dec 21 2009, 02:06 AM']Rich, you know my feelings about this. :rolleyes: Seriously, eq-d correctly (a point I will keep making!) in a band situation I'd take my Compact (for rock at least) over most of the other cabs I've used, including all those at Moffat. (I preferred my early Trace 4x10 (although it didn't handle the lows as well) but it also weighed over 100lbs. Even with my back problems I can carry my Compact with on hand (heck, with one finger!). I'm not keen on the finish and detailing but Alex has made an excellent offer to me in that respect. Ultimately I'm pretty happy with the sound and the weight is an absolute godsend; the rest is just gravy.[/quote]
Yup I know what you are saying Shaun but on the day what we did was put everything on as even a ground as possible and compared the cabs with the same bass and head with a neutral eq and that produced the results that we talked about already. In some ways what we actually tested was how the individual cabs dealt with (coloured) the tone from a controlled amp/bass choice. Maybe that was the point? What we didn't do (and I so wish we had) was take your Ashdown head eq'ed the way you like it through the Compact then do another comparison. That would have shown off better the Compact's individual capabilities rather than us being all scientific and exploring mutual characteristics.

Putting the subjectiveness of sound aside though, my biggest disappointment was that it just wasn't finished to the same degree as the others [b]in the same pro price bracket[/b]. I believe that this is what puts BF at it's greatest disadvantage and may even be the enabler for the brand's criticism especially when you see what other young companies (like Purple Chili) are capable of producing in terms of build quality and finish.

One thing's for sure your wee cab has opened up a big old can of worms and because of the ensuing debate I for one have leaned a lot. :)

Edited by Ou7shined

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[quote name='Ou7shined' post='690346' date='Dec 21 2009, 03:30 AM']Yup I know what you are saying Shaun but on the day what we did was put everything on as even a ground as possible and compared the cabs with the same bass and head with a neutral eq and that produced the results that we talked about already.[/quote]
Yep.. that's what we did at a mini bash. We A/B'd a number of cabs (including the Vintage) without tweaking the EQ. They all sounded wildly different, and it wasn't really fair on the Vintage.

I subsequently gigged it a couple of times and EQ'd it as neccessary - it made all the difference.

To be honest, despite what's been said here (and I consider myself to be pretty experienced), I'll always raise an eyebrow when people say they can tell how a cab will perform at a gig just from hearing it solo'd in an empty room or in the shop.

I always file any reviews of that nature - be it of a cab, amp or bass - under 'Take with a pinch of salt'.

In general, Bass Bashes are a social event for me, an opportunity to get touchy feely with gear, and an occasion to publically break bass amps. Unless I'm going to spend my musical life in a rehearsal room, the 'listening test' side of things is of limited use.

I think Alex knows this too - that's why he's sent his cabs out on the road.

Edited by wateroftyne

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[quote name='wateroftyne' post='690359' date='Dec 21 2009, 07:48 AM']To be honest, despite what's been said here (and I consider myself to be pretty experienced), I'll always raise an eyebrow when people say they can tell how a cab will perform at a gig just from hearing it solo'd in an empty room or in the shop.

I always file any reviews of that nature - be it of a cab, amp or bass - under 'Take with a pinch of salt'.[/quote]

This is precisely why I've gone through shedloads of gear to arrive where I am today. You can't tell IME - some of the sweetest sounding stuff in the showroom has turned out to be a steaming pile of bat poo when gigged. I don't think one gig's enough either to form an opinion - you need to try gear in different rooms / on hollow stages etc.

Edited by niceguyhomer

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[quote]This is precisely why I've gone through shedloads of gear to arrive where I am today. You can't tell IME - some of the sweetest sounding stuff in the showroom has turned out to be a steaming pile of bat poo when gigged. I don't think one gig's enough either to form an opinion - you need to try gear in different rooms / on hollow stages etc.[/quote]

+1. I can tell whether I like or dislike certain attributes about it, and I can usually tell when something REALLY won't work in a live mix... but I don't believe I can reliably pick out ones that will absolutely shine in a live mix just from a solo listen.

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[quote name='4000' post='690339' date='Dec 21 2009, 02:49 AM']No, your opinions are just that; opinions. You have an obvious preference for a particular make of gear. Nothing wrong with that, but you appear to be expecting everyone else to have the same preferences as you. As I've said to you previously, when I tried out my Sei 4 it was through EBS and it sounded fabulous. I tried it through Ampeg and it wasn't so good. I tried my Rick CS through both and it sounded 100 times better through the Ampeg. Its all down to personal preference and what you're trying to achieve. If I'd preferred to play my Ricks (my main gigging basses) through EBS I would've bought EBS. My Compact works for my Ricks. It's not perfect, but it's very good. It may not work for other stuff. The fact that Alex gives such a long trial period and actually sends them round the country surely allows people to get past the hype themselves. If they don't like them they go back. Simple as. What's the problem? You may prefer GBs to Rickenbackers, but I don't!

It seems that beyond the issue of personal taste one or two people have an axe to grind against Alex (indeed I'm aware of a member - who will remain nameless - who has pretty much admitted this). I'm not sure why this is. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion of his cabs. What people seem to be missing is that, as with every other piece of gear, opinion will vary from person to person. I hated my Aguilars. Would I tell someone else not to buy them or that they don't live up to the hype? No, Id say try some for yourself and see whether or not you like them. Both Dave Perry and my mate Stu really like theirs (Dave bought his off me!). That's fine by me, and I'm not going to try and shoot them down in flames for liking them or attempt to tell them they're actually wrong. Because they're not, and neither am I.[/quote]

Granted everybody has opinions, I'm no exception... but I do understand that opinions are often different for other people. At times I wish I hadn't got the username that I have... but hey ho, no point in changing it now. OK, just as a point, I don't expect people to like EBS or not... just because it is my favoured choice doesn't mean I expect anybody else to like it. It's down to you finding the gear that works for you.... however, it should be pointed out that the gear that works for you should be found by you... not by some forum hype. If you test the stuff out, say BF - and I make no secret that I think that it is great that you can try before you buy - then great. What I don't like is when you are told you are wrong, or your bass is wrong, or your amp is wrong, (or the room is wrong!?) for not liking the cab by the maker. The science can be brought to the table, but if the prospective customer doesn't like it, you can't go telling them that they are wrong. That's just not on- if that is an axe to grind, then that's as far as it goes.

Edited by EBS_freak

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[quote name='4000' post='690341' date='Dec 21 2009, 02:53 AM']Case in point. I generally hate tweeters (yes, even live), so what I need from a live tone will probably differ completely from yours. And we are BOTH RIGHT.[/quote]

I use tweeters where appropriate. Just because the cab has them, doesn't mean I have to use them. On a motown gig, they will be off and generally, my 4 string Cairnes will come out to play. It's about choosing the right gear and settings for the gig.

Edited by EBS_freak

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='690493' date='Dec 21 2009, 11:26 AM']however, it should be pointed out that the gear that works for you should be found by you... not by some forum hype.[/quote]

That hit the nail on the head!

Advice and opinions = Useful.
Hype = Not useful.

(IMO).

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[quote name='Ou7shined' post='690346' date='Dec 21 2009, 03:30 AM']Yup I know what you are saying Shaun but on the day what we did was put everything on as even a ground as possible and compared the cabs with the same bass and head with a neutral eq and that produced the results that we talked about already. In some ways what we actually tested was how the individual cabs dealt with (coloured) the tone from a controlled amp/bass choice. Maybe that was the point? What we didn't do (and I so wish we had) was take your Ashdown head eq'ed the way you like it through the Compact then do another comparison. That would have shown off better the Compact's individual capabilities rather than us being all scientific and exploring mutual characteristics.

Putting the subjectiveness of sound aside though, my biggest disappointment was that it just wasn't finished to the same degree as the others [b]in the same pro price bracket[/b]. I believe that this is what puts BF at it's greatest disadvantage and may even be the enabler for the brand's criticism especially when you see what other young companies (like Purple Chili) are capable of producing in terms of build quality and finish.

One thing's for sure your wee cab has opened up a big old can of worms and because of the ensuing debate I for one have leaned a lot. :)[/quote]

Ultimately Rich it may simply have proved that people don't like the sound I use in my band (at least in isolation), but I guess that's kind of the point. The thing is to try gear thoroughly as an individual and see whether it does what you want it to do. It may be that you just wouldn't like the Compact however it was eq-d; I'm sure Dave wouldn't and Alex has stated as much, because it doesn't cover his tone. At the end of the day it's a single tweeterless 15 and there are limitations with that setup, although those limitations aren't really a problem for me. Whether they are for anyone else is an individual choice.

With regards to finishing, you're absolutely right, but my understanding is that they've improved since mine (those Purple Chili cabs do look really good but they've also had to evolve from the rather less cool looking Zoots). Maybe Alex should get Dave to build the cabs! :rolleyes: The main thing for me though is I can play easily loud enough in my band with a tone I'm reasonably happy with and carry the thing easily in one hand; it's actually much lighter than my GS112 was and that's really important to me. As people are no doubt aware I have two prolapsed discs and anything beyond the upper 40lbs is a no-no; I couldn't be happier with the weight. Of course if it falls apart in the next year then fair enough, but it seems reasonably robust so far.

FWIW and echoing some of the points made above, playing my "new" '73 Rick through the Ashdown through the Compact in my front room I get a horrible sound, so much so that I just don't use that combination anymore when playing at home. In a band, that same sound is for me (maybe not for anyone else, although our guitarist is even more blown away with it than I am) fantastic. Of course YMMV.

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[quote name='Mr.T' post='690520' date='Dec 21 2009, 11:50 AM']That hit the nail on the head!

Advice and opinions = Useful.
Hype = Not useful.

(IMO).[/quote]

Talk about stating the totally bloody obvious!

:)

I haven't read one Barefaced review on here that I've perceived as hype. Just people giving their honest accounts of what they think. Maybe it's more down to the way you're interpreting them. But that's your perception - not the intention of the writer.

Reading a review and taking it as just one opinion = Useful
Reading a review and taking it as hype = Not useful

Edited by mildmanofrock

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='690493' date='Dec 21 2009, 11:26 AM']It's down to you finding the gear that works for you.... however, it should be pointed out that the gear that works for you should be found by you... not by some forum hype. If you test the stuff out, say BF - and I make no secret that I think that it is great that you can try before you buy - then great. What I don't like is when you are told you are wrong, or your bass is wrong, or your amp is wrong, (or the room is wrong!?) for not liking the cab by the maker. The science can be brought to the table, but if the prospective customer doesn't like it, you can't go telling them that they are wrong. That's just not on- if that is an axe to grind, then that's as far as it goes.[/quote]

Glad to hear we're singing from the same hymnsheet with regards to making decisions.

With regards to the other points, maybe Alex has made some hasty comments before now; don't we all? However he genuinely seems to want satisfied customers and that surely has to be a good thing. With regards to Forum hype, I think that's the nature of the beast these days. At least it has meant people are talking about the cabs, although as is also the nature of the beast that means there will always be something of a backlash. The truth, as always, usually lies somewhere in the middle.

(BTW, for anyone that's wondering - and also as previously discussed with EBSFreak - my earlier comments don't mean I don't like GBs because I do and my Sei Melt still sounds best through EBS! :) )


EDIT - Mildmanofrock - Amen to that!

Edited by 4000

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[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='690539' date='Dec 21 2009, 12:11 PM']Genius observation.

Those who read a review as just one opinion: useful
Those who read a review and take it as hype: not useful[/quote]

So, you'd say that there's been no hyping of Barefaced cabs on Basschat and all discussion has been totally objective?

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='690494' date='Dec 21 2009, 11:27 AM']I use tweeters where appropriate. Just because the cab has them, doesn't mean I have to use them. On a motown gig, they will be off and generally, my 4 string Cairnes will come out to play. It's about choosing the right gear and settings for the gig.[/quote]

Which is entirely my point, [i]but based on the way I play[/i]. My results with the same gear may be (probably will be) different than yours.

EDIT - Toasted (should've seen that coming :) ) Does it matter whether there has been or there hasn't? We'll each see it as we see fit based on our own expectations and prejudices, and if you can't make your own decisions based on your own criteria then maybe you need to be very careful buying gear in the first place (of course we've all been through years of that). I could argue the same about internet discussion of Sadowsky basses - "best bass ever" etc. They don't work for me. They appear to for you. That's all that matters.

Edited by 4000

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[quote name='Toasted' post='690545' date='Dec 21 2009, 12:18 PM']So, you'd say that there's been no hyping of Barefaced cabs on Basschat and all discussion has been totally objective?[/quote]

Not that I've read, Toastie. Tis all semantics.

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[quote name='john_the_bass' post='690561' date='Dec 21 2009, 12:36 PM']I don't see how any of this adds to this specific review, but maybe that's just me[/quote]

Now, that's a good point!

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