Basic Income for Artists

[Owen]

I know it exists in France and in other places. Just imagine. 

 

https://www.bigissue.com/news/ireland-basic-income-scheme-artists/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawNxok9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBtWTREamlHeXRnSEFpUGdEAR78RHRdvuSVagV9jVXJMOWNsYvbbd12fayeUuStFL0rbLQvJoHNz0oRyj3QnA_aem_lbdeRpo0P1km6wVd0wQ_Eg#Echobox=1761385832

[neepheid]

What?  Get paid to pursue a "hobby"?

 

 

[Burns-bass]

48 minutes ago, Owen said:

I know it exists in France and in other places. Just imagine. 

 

https://www.bigissue.com/news/ireland-basic-income-scheme-artists/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawNxok9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBtWTREamlHeXRnSEFpUGdEAR78RHRdvuSVagV9jVXJMOWNsYvbbd12fayeUuStFL0rbLQvJoHNz0oRyj3QnA_aem_lbdeRpo0P1km6wVd0wQ_Eg#Echobox=1761385832

“I want AI to do the dishes and the washing and leave me to do the creative stuff, not the other way round…”

[Misdee]

11 hours ago, Owen said:

I know it exists in France and in other places. Just imagine. 

 

https://www.bigissue.com/news/ireland-basic-income-scheme-artists/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawNxok9leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBtWTREamlHeXRnSEFpUGdEAR78RHRdvuSVagV9jVXJMOWNsYvbbd12fayeUuStFL0rbLQvJoHNz0oRyj3QnA_aem_lbdeRpo0P1km6wVd0wQ_Eg#Echobox=1761385832

It used to exist in the U.K. It was called Income Support.

[Gank Bass]

I work full time but I fully support the idea.

 

We all consume art in some form, but in the current climate it is pretty much untenable unless you are backed by a corporation or come from wealth. 

 

I forgot who said it but the quote that always sticks with me is "isn't it funny how there's always money for war"

[Burns-bass]

34 minutes ago, Gank Bass said:

I work full time but I fully support the idea.

 

We all consume art in some form, but in the current climate it is pretty much untenable unless you are backed by a corporation or come from wealth. 

 

I forgot who said it but the quote that always sticks with me is "isn't it funny how there's always money for war"

The economic arguments for this stuff are quite persuasive, but they’ll never get a look in from a large proportion of the public.

[tegs07]

50 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

The economic arguments for this stuff are quite persuasive, but they’ll never get a look in from a large proportion of the public.

To be fair much of the public are so exhausted running ever faster on the hamster wheel and getting further away from where they started to be interested in other people getting subsidies (even if they are from war torn nations and have lost everything).

Edited Saturday at 08:52 by tegs07

[TimR]

Sounds just like a more efficient way of subsidising the Arts.

 

The artists still have to apply for a 'grant', but that effictively cuts out the large, possibly wasteful*, organistations. 

 

*Assuming you don't consider the government as a large, wasteful organisation. 

Edited 20 hours ago by TimR

[Misdee]

The way the British society is increasingly leaning, right-wing populism based on feelings and prejudice rather than facts, I seriously doubt any government would spend even a second considering whether to pay a living wage to artists. Can you imagine the public outcry? "My mum's waiting for a hip operation and Kier Starmer's  paying for some kid to sit on his ringpiece and learn how to play the bass!" The press would have a field day.

 

We are a nation of philistines, and it's going to get much worse very soon. There is no chance of this ever being adopted in the U.K, except possibly by Scotland, and they would expect England to pay for it. 

[neepheid]

6 minutes ago, Misdee said:

We are a nation of philistines, and it's going to get much worse very soon. There is no chance of this ever being adopted in the U.K, except possibly by Scotland, and they would expect England to pay for it. 

 

Did you have to get that wee lick in there at the end?  That right wing sentiment rubbing off on you or something?  Don't make me come down there and educate you about Scotland's net worth to the United Kingdom.  I'm worth half of the Barnett Formula alone.  But if you want me gone, just say the word.

 

[Dad3353]

[Russ]

Sweden has had the “kulturskolan” system forever, where people can go to learn music for free, and use their rehearsal and recording facilities, also for free. Musicians there can also take advantage of government subsidies to put gigs on, record albums, do promotion, etc. This is probably the single biggest reason why Sweden punches so far above its weight in terms of music. Last time I was there, I had a nice conversation with a girl who is the lead guitarist in a successful Swedish all-female AC/DC-style rock band, who organised the gig I was playing that night, and she told me about how it all works and how their system helped her band. 

 

Ireland has also just made a form of UBI for artists permanent after a successful pilot programme. There’s more qualifications required than the Swedish system and the degree of support isn’t as extensive, but it’s a big step in the right direction. 

 

These systems seem to enjoy significant public support too - they consider it tax money well spent because they value culture. I’ve always said you can judge a country based on how it treats its artists. 

[neepheid]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

That's the sad part of it, Dad.  I don't believe they were trolling

[Dad3353]

Just now, neepheid said:

That's the sad part of it, Dad.  I don't believe they were trolling

 

Indeed, but some seem to post simply for the sake of getting a 'click bait' response. It's a compulsion, a sort of illness, really. My usual response to the usual suspects is to let the dogs bark; the caravan will pass, whatever. 

[Misdee]

31 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Did you have to get that wee lick in there at the end?  That right wing sentiment rubbing off on you or something?  Don't make me come down there and educate you about Scotland's net worth to the United Kingdom.  I'm worth half of the Barnett Formula alone.  But if you want me gone, just say the word.

 

I would just like to point out that technically speaking I am Scottish. I could actually play for the national team and claim residence after independence. Regardless of that, I am quite happy to  subsidise methadone and deep fried Mars Bars for some time yet, just so long as I don't have to listen to Runrig ever again. 🙂

 

The reason I mention Scotland is that in recent history they have made a point of passing some "progressive" legislation that the rest of the UK would not dare even contemplate, ie  student finances ect. In light of that, I could see this scheme appealing to Scottish politicians aiming to boost what I believe they nowadays call "soft power", ie the idea that Wet Wet Wet et al enhance Scotland's international profile and influence. Personally, I'm sceptical, but I suppose you never know.

[neepheid]

9 minutes ago, Misdee said:

I would just like to point out that technically speaking I am Scottish. I could actually play for the national team and claim residence after independence. Regardless of that, I am quite happy to  subsidise methadone and deep fried Mars Bars for some time yet, just so long as I don't have to listen to Runrig ever again. 🙂

 

The reason I mention Scotland is that in recent history they have made a point of passing some "progressive" legislation that the rest of the UK would not dare even contemplate, ie  student finances ect. In light of that, I could see this scheme appealing to Scottish politicians aiming to boost what I believe they nowadays call "soft power", ie the idea that Wet Wet Wet et al enhance Scotland's international profile and influence. Personally, I'm sceptical, but I suppose you never know.

 

Aye aye, politics and stuff *handwaves*.  But are you any good, like at fitba or rugby?

 

Let's get down to the real issues here

 

[Cato]

Diifficult to avoid politics on this one, but basically the British right wing press would have a total meltdown if anyone in government ever mentioned the idea.

 

It'd be wall to wall headlines about 'woke handouts' and 'feckless scroungers'.

 

To be fair I'm pretty confident that there would be huge resistance from the same people to any kind of universal income, even in the face of mass AI induced unemployment, let alone anything aimed at subsidising creatives.

 

Which has a certain irony, given that journalism is one of those creative sectors that's already taking a hammering from AI.

Edited 12 hours ago by Cato

[tegs07]

 

 

 

 

deleting. it’s a lost cause 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by tegs07

[prowla]

The problem with a universal basic income is that someone has to pay for it.

We're already taxed at the highest level in decades and the current government are actively increasing taxes (even before the upcoming budget!).

Whilst it's easy to denegrate people by posting strawman arguments postulating probable DM headlines about "woke" and "scroungers", what happens if money earners decide that they'd be as well jacking it in and becoming "musicians"?

[prowla]

On 31/10/2025 at 14:14, neepheid said:

What?  Get paid to pursue a "hobby"?

 

 

I'm fortunate in that I get paid to do one of my hobbies and so I put up with the superfluous hassle that goes with it.

It would be great if I shifted to musicianship, but then all of the superfluous hassle would shift there too...

 

On 01/11/2025 at 07:26, Gank Bass said:

I work full time but I fully support the idea.

 

We all consume art in some form, but in the current climate it is pretty much untenable unless you are backed by a corporation or come from wealth. 

 

I forgot who said it but the quote that always sticks with me is "isn't it funny how there's always money for war"

I'm not sure I do: music production is now and the music industry has become quite diversified with the shift away from large organisations.

Social media, Bandcamp, and so-on mean it is way easier to get your product out than in the past.

I haven't done it because I am not motivated enough to do so, but if I wanted to I could, without even leaving my house.

I guess there's 1 in 10,000 artists who makes it (ie. earns a good living); would increasing that (even doubling it) yield anything significant?

Would it encourage people to spend more on the arts?

The thing about the money for war is that it's loans rather than a slush fund; it took decades after for the UK to pay for WW II.

[TimR]

There is a lot more information here.

 

Essentially it's not a Universal Basic Income scheme.

 

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-culture-communications-and-sport/campaigns/basic-income-for-the-arts-pilot-scheme/

 

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-culture-communications-and-sport/publications/basic-income-for-the-arts-pilot-scheme-your-questions-answered/

 

[chris_b]

Just make it compulsory for everyone in the country to go and see a band at least once a week.

[Leonard Smalls]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Just make it compulsory for everyone in the country to go and see a band at least once a week.

I'd vote for that!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

The problem with a universal basic income is that someone has to pay for it.

Maybe take away the loopholes that enable billionaires to hoard their wealth whilst paying ignorant flagsh@ggers to spread the idea that immigrants are to blame for all of the problems they themselves have caused, but don't want to help solve.

[Misdee]

11 hours ago, Russ said:

Sweden has had the “kulturskolan” system forever, where people can go to learn music for free, and use their rehearsal and recording facilities, also for free. Musicians there can also take advantage of government subsidies to put gigs on, record albums, do promotion, etc. This is probably the single biggest reason why Sweden punches so far above its weight in terms of music. Last time I was there, I had a nice conversation with a girl who is the lead guitarist in a successful Swedish all-female AC/DC-style rock band, who organised the gig I was playing that night, and she told me about how it all works and how their system helped her band. 

 

Ireland has also just made a form of UBI for artists permanent after a successful pilot programme. There’s more qualifications required than the Swedish system and the degree of support isn’t as extensive, but it’s a big step in the right direction. 

 

These systems seem to enjoy significant public support too - they consider it tax money well spent because they value culture. I’ve always said you can judge a country based on how it treats its artists. 

Sweden is ,however, a society which tolerates one of the highest levels of taxation in the world.

 

Myself,  I would be happy to live in such a country. Convincing the wider British public to submit to such a system would be pretty much an impossibility.

 

The whole of the developed world is moving away from that kind of a social model. Public spending is something to be restricted and cut back, not expanded to include people who think they have a right and a need to express themselves.

 

The Swedish system has its roots in progressive liberal ideas that flourished in the 1960's and 1970's. The reality is that in countries like Britain and the USA we are heading back to the 1920's where ordinary working people were kept in a state of anxious uncertainty as a way of keeping them more useful, more profitable and less troublesome to their employers. More work, less pay, less rights.