Cultural appropriation and covers

[PainInTheBass]

Meanwhile on Basschat.Africa. ...

[Geek99]

34 minutes ago, ian61 said:

 

 

How about UB40?  I dont know if Ali's voice is naturally black sounding or he's putting it on.....but it certainly sounds appropriate and the band and entourage was full of black comrades and great friends. 

 

? 

He probably absorbed it from the multi cultural hotspot he grew up in. He played with black musicians for years. Like my accent it probably comes and goes depending who he is with and what he is doing. 
I don’t think he’s putting it on 

[cetera]

39 minutes ago, ian61 said:

How about UB40?  I dont know if Ali's voice is naturally black sounding or he's putting it on.....but it certainly sounds appropriate and the band and entourage was full of black comrades and great friends. 

 

I'm more offended by their homogenised, twee pop-reggae tbh.

 

How about Tim Westwood? More Ali-G than Ali-G....

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

I recall Maureen Lipman saying that gentiles should not play roles depicting Jewish characters. I believed that was what acting was.

 

So Jewish singers can only sing Jewish songs? Maybe Jewish comedians can only tell Jewish jokes?

 

This is getting very silly.

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

So Jewish singers can only sing Jewish songs? Maybe Jewish comedians can only tell Jewish jokes?

 

This is getting very silly.

Meanwhile whilst we’re all distracted Musk and his cronies steal our future.

Edited 9 hours ago by tegs07

[Dankology]

12 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

If I haven't lived in a yellow submarine, or got my kicks on Route 66, or can't remember the summer of '69, there are certain songs I can't play because I can't relate to them? 🫤

 

There are lots of grey areas here but perhaps you've hit something key in talking about how you might "relate to" a song.

 

All the ones you mention here are generally positive, feelgood songs and most people would be able to lose themselves in the moment (even if they were listening to the lyrics, which is perhaps questionable in itself) by having similar feelings of community, hope, nostalgia or whatever without having driven on the same road/lived in the same submersible/whatever.

 

But if the song is born of something more negative (eg of racism, the politics of a certain area/era, past personal abuse etc) I think you have to be more careful in what feelings you allow yourself to indulge: you risk being anything from insensitive or crass all the way through to seeming to trivialize the original intent of the song.

 

For me, I find dentists gurning through Chicago blues on PRS guitars a bit cringeworthy but hardly a hate crime, ditto John Power singing Redemption Song, albeit perhaps quite a bit more cringey. At the other end of the scale I think I would very much struggle listening to a privileged white youngster sing Strange Fruit or a current British political protestor (of whatever persuasion) sing Ohio. 

 

Which is not to say that I think you can only sing happy songs... but I think you can usually tell the difference between an attempt to share in some sort of cross-cultural community and a crass/cynical/tone-deaf attempt to channel someone else's experience.

[tegs07]

30 minutes ago, Dankology said:

would very much struggle listening to a privileged white youngster sing Strange Fruit

Just as well the Ukrainian jewish heritage Abel Meeropol had no such qualms or it would never have been written.

Edited 8 hours ago by tegs07

[Dankology]

5 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Just as well the Ukrainian jewish heritage Abel Meeropol had no such qualms or it would never have been written.

I think you rather prove the point made in my final paragraph there.

[tegs07]

8 minutes ago, Dankology said:

I think you rather prove the point made in my final paragraph there.

OK so the criteria is a middle class person can only get involved if the end result is good? So does that include Siouxsie and the Banshees? Would Abel be open to abuse if the words were clumsy and who gets to judge what art is good or not anyway?

 

Edit: My take on this is just be sensitive to the subject matter. If Eric Clapton had covered I shot the Sheriff in a fake Jamaican accent it would have been parody. As it was IMO it was neither offensive nor anywhere near as good as the original.

Edited 8 hours ago by tegs07

[Misdee]

17 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

OK so the criteria is a middle class person can only get involved if the end result is good? So does that include Siouxsie and the Banshees? Would Abel be open to abuse if the words were clumsy and who gets to judge what art is good or not anyway?

 

Edit: My take on this is just be sensitive to the subject matter. If Eric Clapton had covered I shot the Sheriff in a fake Jamaican accent it would have been parody. As it was IMO it was neither offensive nor anywhere near as good as the original.

The cultural appropriation accusations on that song could get a bit complicated, bearing in mind that Bob Marley was half Welsh, or half English, or half white Jamaican, depending on who you believe.

Edited 8 hours ago by Misdee

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Misdee said:

The cultural appropriation accusations on that song could get a bit complicated, bearing in mind that Bob Marley was half Welsh, or half English, or half white Jamaican, depending on who you believe.

Indeed. Not that any of it matters. He was just Bob Marley. One of the greatest songwriters ever.

[Mickeyboro]

2 hours ago, cetera said:

 

I'm more offended by their homogenised, twee pop-reggae tbh.

Agree with you, and the current line up is diabolical, but UB40 in their prime (a different matter) probably turned a lot of people on to the real thing. I am one of them.

[Misdee]

23 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

Agree with you, and the current line up is diabolical, but UB40 in their prime (a different matter) probably turned a lot of people on to the real thing. I am one of them.

Listening now, early UB40 were superb, just as good as anything coming out of Jamaica. To me it's authentic because they authentically meant it; their feeling for that music is sincere. That's why they played it so well. The drummer and bass player are so good. I really don't think Sly and Robbie could have done a better job on those first few albums. 

[Mickeyboro]

Thanks!

Sad that the feeble current Ali-led UB40 does so few of the political songs. The first two albums (ie pre covers) had a real bite to them you just don’t hear these days.
Seeing them with the Pretenders made a big impact on the young would-be bassist me. 

[jazzyvee]

On 16/09/2025 at 07:49, Cato said:

You can over think these things.

 

Some of the best songs tell a story, you don't have to have a connection or even empathy for that story in order to retell it. Indeed sharing stories is one of the ways that people learn about each other.

 

Having said that I'd feel pretty silly if I had to sing Redemption Song in front of an audience, so there's definitely a 'Partridge' line somewhere, but it's probably very much an individual decision rather than a blanket rule you can apply to all situations 

A few years back my band did a a couple of gigs where we played some jazzed up versions of reggae songs and reggae versions of jazzy tracks. I had a couple of superb white female singers from a local folk band, whom i'd depped with on bass, to cover a couple of Wailers tracks that we were including from the twist of marley album by Lee Ritenour. One was no woman no cry and also Exodus. First one they were completely happy singing, but Exodus, they both felt the could't authentically identify with the context and message of the song and deliver it with the passion it deserves because of who they were.  So they did all the other tracks and we had a black female singer to do Exodus.  I totally accepted their feeling, the gig went down a storm.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by jazzyvee

[MacDaddy]

2 hours ago, jazzyvee said:

they both felt the could't authentically identify with the context and message of the song and deliver it with the passion it deserves because of who they were.

 

 

I can't imagine an opera singer having those concerns when singing "Va, pensiero" (Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves).

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

 

 

If you think non-jewish actors playing Jewish characters is as bad as blackface you must also object to this:

 

 

 

 

 

Quite. If you want somebody to play vegetation, get a bush.

[tauzero]

17 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

If I haven't lived in a yellow submarine, or got my kicks on Route 66, or can't remember the summer of '69, there are certain songs I can't play because I can't relate to them? 🫤

 

I have gone over the Cork and Kerry mountains and my family name is the same as a highwayman that was allegedly the subject of the song but I've never robbed Captain Farrell or met Molly, so can I or can I not sing "Whiskey in the jar"?

[Dad3353]

Can only a Danish prince play 'Hamlet'..? 

[Stub Mandrel]

5 hours ago, Dankology said:

a current British political protestor (of whatever persuasion) sing Ohio.

 

I can't think of many songs more relevant to what is currently happening in the USA and UK...

[Lozz196]

20 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I have gone over the Cork and Kerry mountains and my family name is the same as a highwayman that was allegedly the subject of the song but I've never robbed Captain Farrell or met Molly, so can I or can I not sing "Whiskey in the jar"?

Thinking about similar, I’m now teetotal (for 18 years) yet in one of my bands we have a song called Football Beer & Punk Rock, maybe I should no longer be playing it as I no longer partake in beer.

[Agent 00Soul]

I don't think music could exist without people being influenced by other cultures and incorporating those elements into their own work.  It's the most porous and fluid of all art forms.

 

Having said that, I think that something like George Harrison's (and Kula Shaker's) take on Indian music, which was considered very respectful in their time, would have to be presented differently if created today.

[tegs07]

38 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Having said that, I think that something like George Harrison's (and Kula Shaker's) take on Indian music, which was considered very respectful in their time, would have to be presented differently if created today.

How far do we take this though? Are people who meditate, practice yoga or become buddhist guilty of cultural appropriation?

 

Are Indian cricketers that enjoy a nice cup of tea and a crisp ironed shirt and brogues culturally appropriating.

 

How about Bangalore call centre workers in Nike TNs, baseball caps and Jay Z T Shirts? How about if they form a rap group?

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[MacDaddy]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I have gone over the Cork and Kerry mountains and my family name is the same as a highwayman that was allegedly the subject of the song but I've never robbed Captain Farrell or met Molly, so can I or can I not sing "Whiskey in the jar"?

 

I think it would depend if you have ever whacked for your daddy, oh?

[Terry M.]

34 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

 

Are Indian cricketers that enjoy a nice cup of tea and a crisp ironed shirt and brogues culturally appropriating.

Is the tea grown in India and the shirt made from Indian produced cotton?