Is it safe to accept a bank transfer when selling gear?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I listed some gear on Gumtree and sold my trusty Markbass LM2 today to a chap who drove quite a way to get it, however as he had turned up without any cash, he paid me by bank transfer using mobile banking.

 

I can see the money in my account and my balance has updated, so it looks like it is safe, but is it? and is it safe to allow this payment method in future? Can a payment made using online banking with 'faster payments' still 'bounce' at a later date or can it be considered safe?

[Paolo85]

It should be safe, only you can get money out of your account. Maybe naively I never considered it would be an issue and never showed up with cash until recently somebody did not accept that

[Gramski]

I would think it is about the safest method to receive funds; a faster payment that has hit your account can't be reversed or recalled although it could in theory become part of a fraud investigation if the buyer decided to go down that route. I'd personally prefer faster payments rather than risk counterfeit cash. 

[asingardenof]

I would say that if the money's in your account then job's a good un. I've paid by bank transfer to several fine members of this site and been paid likewise by others from elsewhere.

[Paolo85]

1 minute ago, Gramski said:

it could in theory become part of a fraud investigation if the buyer decided to go down that route 

You mean if the buyer claimed in court that you sold them a faulty good or something?

[casapete]

I sold my car using this method of payment to a private buyer. Like you I wasn’t sure but it was fine.

I’ve always stuck to cash only when buying and selling stuff, but this does seem to be the preferred

way of doing things now and I can see why - safer than wads of dosh when meeting up in car parks

etc, and preferable to PayPal , especially the ‘friends and family’ option. 
(Will keep an eye on this thread to see if anyone has had a bad experience.)

[theplumber]

What are folks take on paying by pay pal these days? Have done it in the past for low amount and everything was ok. I do a fair bit of face to face selling on facebook market place and it's usually cash when I turn up at someones house or when they buy from me. I nearly bought a bass on here last week but when contacting the seller he would not do pay pal but wanted bank transfer straight away and was sorting the bass out at the weekend about 4 days later. We spoke on here and that should have been enough but because of the recent scamming on here I decided not to pay and dropped out of the deal! On reflection I should have phoned the seller which I usually do and just transfered the money but took cold feet.

[Bunion]

A bank transfer can’t be reversed. 
They could request their bank get the money back because of a mistake, but  your bank would not just hand it over they must contact you and if you dispute it there would be an investigation. 
The bank scam is where they use a false bank app to show you they’ve made a payment telling you it will clear within the next two hours while they bugger off with your bass. 
If you get a payment to your account your good to go.

 

 

[Paolo85]

3 hours ago, theplumber said:

What are folks take on paying by pay pal these days? Have done it in the past for low amount and everything was ok. I do a fair bit of face to face selling on facebook market place and it's usually cash when I turn up at someones house or when they buy from me. I nearly bought a bass on here last week but when contacting the seller he would not do pay pal but wanted bank transfer straight away and was sorting the bass out at the weekend about 4 days later. We spoke on here and that should have been enough but because of the recent scamming on here I decided not to pay and dropped out of the deal! On reflection I should have phoned the seller which I usually do and just transfered the money but took cold feet.

If you pay on the bank account you know for sure that you are paying a person based in the UK, whose name and address can be found very easily assuming banks do their checks. Taking legal action could be straighforward. With paypal family and friensd not so much. I much prefer bank transfer. Paypal goods and services it's different but there are fees

[Gramski]

7 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

You mean if the buyer claimed in court that you sold them a faulty good or something?

 

@Bunion has explained it better than me just above. 

 

@theplumber PayPal friends and family no protection for the buyer (in just the same way that the buyer has no protection with a bank transfer). PayPal F&F It is just another form of money transfer. 

 

PayPal "goods and services" is a big risk for the seller as it seems relatively easy for buyers to raise disputes which probably explains why the seller you were dealing with didn't want to use PayPal (goods and services).  

 

It all comes down to trust \ level of risk you are willing to accept as a buyer \ seller. I've only done one transaction on Basschat and that was a Bank Transfers for £100 to someone with a great history. But I'd think long and hard about a private purchase of £1000+ using a Bank Transfer to an individual I didn't know.  

[BassTractor]

Some people are wary about giving out their banking details, but they needn't be.
Not only is it safe, but also: how do you pay the plumber's bill that has banking details printed on it?
One of the safest methods if not the safest one.

...but:
Doncha UK guys have an app these days, paying from bank account to bank account by use of phone numbers instead of banking details?
With such an app, the seller immediately sees that the money's indeed in.
As it's the same principle as above, this money can't be retracted.
In Norway, sellers routinely demand the app, as it does away with the risk of counterfeit money ... and in Covid times it also reduced bug risks.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BassTractor

[neepheid]

7 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Some people are wary about giving out their banking details, but they needn't be.
Not only is it safe, but also: how do you pay the plumber's bill that has banking details printed on it?
One of the safest methods if not the safest ones.

...but:
Doncha UK guys have an app these days, paying from bank account to bank account by use of phone numbers instead of banking details?
With such an app, the seller immediately sees that the money's indeed in.
As it's the same principle as above, this money can't be retracted.
In Norway, sellers routinely demand the app, as it does away with the risk of counterfeit money ... and in Covid times it also reduced bug risks.

 

That would necessitate banks talking to each other more than they currently do, I suspect.

 

As for instant notification, depends on the bank app.  Monzo is good at that - as soon as something happens to your account (be it money going in or out) it pings up a notification.  Other banks and banking apps are available...

[Woodinblack]

The only scams you can do with a bank transfer is if you show someone a fake screenshot saying you paid it, but that is quickly uncovered by looking at your own banking app and showing the money has turned up.

[asingardenof]

11 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Some people are wary about giving out their banking details, but they needn't be.
Not only is it safe, but also: how do you pay the plumber's bill that has banking details printed on it?
One of the safest methods if not the safest ones.

...but:
Doncha UK guys have an app these days, paying from bank account to bank account by use of phone numbers instead of banking details?
With such an app, the seller immediately sees that the money's indeed in.
As it's the same principle as above, this money can't be retracted.
In Norway, sellers routinely demand the app, as it does away with the risk of counterfeit money ... and in Covid times it also reduced bug risks.

Another option is with Monzo you can generate a link so someone can pay by debit card and the money will go into your account immediately without you having to give out your bank details, if that was a concern. You could set up an account just for doing transactions such as this (if you use my referral link here we'll both get £5 - no pressure though...).

[TheGreek]

6 hours ago, Bunion said:

A bank transfer can’t be reversed. 
They could request their bank get the money back because of a mistake, but  your bank would not just hand it over they must contact you and if you dispute it there would be an investigation. 
The bank scam is where they use a false bank app to show you they’ve made a payment telling you it will clear within the next two hours while they bugger off with your bass. 
If you get a payment to your account your good to go.

 

 

This.

[Guest Gabriel1918]

Safe, assuming you trust banks....

[40hz]

Bank transfers are by far my preferred method. Simple, quick, safe and as long as you both have mobile banking (which most do these days) - you can see the money is in your account there and then.

 

Also means you don't have to take a trip to the local bank/Post Office to deposit wads of cash!

Edited June 19, 2023 by 40hz

[MichaelDean]

1 hour ago, BassTractor said:

Some people are wary about giving out their banking details, but they needn't be.
Not only is it safe, but also: how do you pay the plumber's bill that has banking details printed on it?
One of the safest methods if not the safest one.

I think the only thing someone could possibly do would be to set up a direct debit in your name. It happened to Jeremy Clarkson after he printed his bank details in The Times saying it was totally safe!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2008/jan/07/personalfinancenews.scamsandfraud

 

Hopefully things have moved on a bit since 2008, but I wouldn't bet on it!

 

Not saying the average person would do this and it should be fine for most transactions, this is an edge case!

Edited June 19, 2023 by MichaelDean
Caveat added!

[Guest Gabriel1918]

8 hours ago, theplumber said:

What are folks take on paying by pay pal these days? Have done it in the past for low amount and everything was ok. I do a fair bit of face to face selling on facebook market place and it's usually cash when I turn up at someones house or when they buy from me. I nearly bought a bass on here last week but when contacting the seller he would not do pay pal but wanted bank transfer straight away and was sorting the bass out at the weekend about 4 days later. We spoke on here and that should have been enough but because of the recent scamming on here I decided not to pay and dropped out of the deal! On reflection I should have phoned the seller which I usually do and just transfered the money but took cold feet.

I tend to avoid Paypal for a couple of reasons: 1. They charge fees on transactions; 2. Payments can be reversed if, for example, the buyer claims that there is damage to the item or even that they didn't receive the item.  That would obviously depend upon Paypal's diligence in determining the truth, but it is a factor to consider.  Cash is probably safest, then bank transfer.

[Waddo Soqable]

Trouble is it seems that either the seller is "safe"  bank transfer or PP F&F... or the buyer is, with PP goods and services, (with fees)

Again cash seems to be the safest option, but obviously not much use for long distance sales. 

[casapete]

9 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Trouble is it seems that either the seller is "safe"  bank transfer or PP F&F... or the buyer is, with PP goods and services, (with fees)

Again cash seems to be the safest option, but obviously not much use for long distance sales. 

Yet another reason for cash not being phased out IMO. I do like having options - cash for smaller local

deals and bank transfer for larger distant ones. 

[Paolo85]

I politely disagree For distance transactions, as said, cash is no use. In person, everything is safe unless one of the two people decides to get a kinfe out and mug the other: the buyer tries the bass, the seller gets the money instantly, be it cash, bank or paypal and that's it. No way the money can be clawed back in a scam. With the only risk being that the bass has hidden issues in that case I am not sure how having paid cash helps - indeed, having at least a proof that the bass has being paid for is a good starting point in that case

[Frank Blank]

I only ever do bank transfer for transactions with Bass Chatters, but, I always check beforehand that a bank transfer is acceptable. I wouldn't just turn up expecting someone to accept that method of payment.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

2 hours ago, asingardenof said:

Another option is with Monzo you can generate a link so someone can pay by debit card and the money will go into your account immediately without you having to give out your bank details, if that was a concern. You could set up an account just for doing transactions such as this (if you use my referral link here we'll both get £5 - no pressure though...).

 

This is interesting as I already have a monzo account which I use mostly to transfer money to my kids (and sometimes get it paid back as promised). I will look into the link thing you have described - it sounds like it might be a preferable solution for getting paid.

[Paolo85]

49 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

 

This is interesting as I already have a monzo account which I use mostly to transfer money to my kids (and sometimes get it paid back as promised). I will look into the link thing you have described - it sounds like it might be a preferable solution for getting paid.

I guess the downside with that is that, as a buyer, I would rather not pay through something I am mot very, very, familiar. Maybe, just because I have Monzo myself, I'd trust this one depending on how it looks. But in general, if I was to transfer hundreds or thousands of pounds before something gets posted to me, I don't want to have to figure out what the heck is that payment platform that I am seeing and whether is legit or just looks legit but has been created by a hacker

Edited June 19, 2023 by Paolo85