What makes a neck worth £100 vs £1000?

[LukeFRC]

Slightly clickbaity title sorry…

 

I have in my head a project/build I would like to do that would involve a fretless shortscale.

 

now the last build I did I picked up a musicman neck which was nice… and was half thinking of building my own next from scratch 

 

for this though I’ve seen the almost perfect spec neck for less than I could buy the neck blank for, from a brand with a reasonable reputation 

 

so other than finish (which I can redo if needed) and care of fret install (which I will be taking out) what really is going to be the difference between the cheap and the expensive? Wood quality/stability?

 

to be fair im pretty sure a £50-100 neck will be better than anything I could make, and far worse than something Jon shuker or Alpher would make - but from a factory what would the differences be? 

[LukeFRC]

Oh and I’m not saying there isn’t any. I’ve owned enough basses to know there really are big differences in almost everything between a £700 instrument and a £7k one. And I don’t judge that, I would gig a fodera (though not afford) or a nice Harley Benton with no problem, but wouldn’t expect them to be equal.

 

I also am of the opinion that the neck is the most important part of bass tone and playability after fingers and pickups/placement.

[Hellzero]

The differences will be in the wood, glue, trussrod, frets, nut and finish, so every component.

 

The lower the price, the lower the quality of these elements, and sometimes a cheaper than cheap neck could be amazing, but it's really a lottery and when a trussrod breaks, because of its poor construction, you'll blame yourself.

[TheGreek]

You also have to account for the finish. The amount of time spent on finishing anything is an important factor - that's why hand-built basses have an extra 0 on the end of the price.

[kodiakblair]

4 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I’ve seen the almost perfect spec neck for less than I could buy the neck blank for, from a brand with a reasonable reputation 

Have I picked you up wrongly and you're talking a fully finished neck for less than a blank ? If so, where are you looking to buy blanks from ?

 

Alistair Reid in Glasgow sells 39" PAS 22 x 100 hard maple blanks for £19. Vist a timber merchant and you'd be half that, OK it'd need dressed but it's not a huge task.

 

Most expensive blank G&W sell is Wenge 50 x 110 x 990 at 55€, you could get 2 blanks from a chunky bit like that. Standard hard maple is €19 🙂

 

 A 2 way TR and stainless steel fretwire would cost you 16.50 from Alistair, double that from G&W.

 

Reid's fretboards start at £6 for maple rising to £33 for blackwood, G&W run about 50% more but have a huge selection. 

 

https://www.reidtimber.co.uk/guitar-blanks

 

https://guitarsandwoods.com/

[Beedster]

You can cheap out on a body but not a neck, Mighty Mite OK, Allparts better, Warmoth outstanding. You'll know why once you've owned all three brands for a couple of years, the Warmoth will be rock solid, the Allparts probably rock solid.....

[Baloney Balderdash]

22 hours ago, Hellzero said:

The differences will be in the wood, glue, trussrod, frets, nut and finish, so every component.

 

The lower the price, the lower the quality of these elements, and sometimes a cheaper than cheap neck could be amazing, but it's really a lottery and when a trussrod breaks, because of its poor construction, you'll blame yourself.

Regarding wood it's more a case of the degree of randomness of quality of the wood between individual units rather than it is a case of cheap necks consistently being made of bad wood (which honestly makes sense, picking out consistently bad wood would end up making production more expensive, also what on Earth would the point be of doing that).

 

As you said with cheap instruments it's more of a lottery.

 

My cheap Ibanez Mikro Bass got an outstanding neck in just about every regard, don't think I ever had a neck on any guitar or bass at any price point that was this stable.

 

Unless swapping to a set of strings with significantly different tension, at most it will only need a very minor, not even strictly necessary, truss rod adjustment something like once a year (and yes, here  where I live there can be rather big seasonal changes, both in terms of humidity and temperature). 

 

It also shows as good as no signs of fret wear despite being over 10 years old, with roundwounds and daily playing, and the frets was practically perfectly leveled from stock as well.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[paul_c2]

.................err, headstock logo?

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

.................err, headstock logo?

Definitely plays a fairly big role, as does cosmetic quality and finish of the wood (the latter though not necessarily the case if we are talking Gibson).

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[kodiakblair]

2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Definitely plays a fairly big role,

Not 'fairly big', it's the main factor.

 

There's almost £500 between an AllParts/Mighty Mite and a Fender replacement neck yet they're produced the same way and carry the same "may not fit/might required work" warning.

 

 

'Crafted in Corona' is a nice way of saying where the CNC machine is located 🤣

 

FFS, £679 and you still need to cut the nut slots 🤬

[Beedster]

4 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

Not 'fairly big', it's the main factor.

 

There's almost £500 between an AllParts/Mighty Mite and a Fender replacement neck yet they're produced the same way and carry the same "may not fit/might required work" warning.

 

 

'Crafted in Corona' is a nice way of saying where the CNC machine is located 🤣

 

FFS, £679 and you still need to cut the nut slots 🤬

I would not put Allparts and Mighty Mite in the same category, IME Allparts necks are often better than Fender MIM and USA necks and on a par with Fender MIJ/CIJ necks, while the more expensive Warmoth necks of £300 upwards compete comfortably with Fender US Custom Shop. I bought a Fender aftermarket neck (MIM) for £325 for a build during lockdown and it went straight back due to poorly dressed frets, a badly cut nut, and a general sense that, without wishing to be overly technical, it was flipping stinky poo. There is not one component of a Fender bass that can’t be bought at far higher quality for lower price. A Fender US quality bass can easily be built for £500-£600, Custom Shop quality for £1000, and that’s a new prices for the parts, shop around in eBay and here and it can be done much cheaper 👍

[kodiakblair]

3 hours ago, Beedster said:

A Fender US quality bass can easily be built for £500-£600, Custom Shop quality for £1000, and that’s a new prices for the parts, shop around in eBay and here and it can be done much cheaper 👍

I'm with you every step going down this road 🙂

 

 

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Beedster said:

A Fender US quality bass can easily be built for £500-£600, Custom Shop quality for £1000, and that’s a new prices for the parts, shop around in eBay and here and it can be done much cheaper 

 

Thats not unreasonable though - if you are buying a custom shop bass for 3-5k made by fender employing actual luthiers in the states, you wouldn't expect the components to be more than £500 of the actual build, as otherwise the finances don't make sense.

[Beedster]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Thats not unreasonable though - if you are buying a custom shop bass for 3-5k made by fender employing actual luthiers in the states, you wouldn't expect the components to be more than £500 of the actual build, as otherwise the finances don't make sense.

 

You are joking? Luthiers at Fender? You mean CNC operators and 'build technicians' who screw things together and check the really nuanced stuff like the strings passing over the PUP poles and not straying off the neck. the PUPs work and the pickguard fits (OK, In the case of Custom Shop there might be some skill in selecting woods, as there is also in relic finishing, although the work of @d_g here is as good as any I've owned from FCS),. None of this is luthiery. But anyway, Warmoth are also US built as are some Allparts, and assuming these often better than Fender necks and bodies don't build themselves, I really don't see any logic to your point.

 

You buy Fender Custom Shop 80% of what you are paying for, as was correctly identified above, is the writing on the front and back of the headstock 👍

[Woodinblack]

17 minutes ago, Beedster said:

You are joking? Luthiers at Fender? 

 

I was talking custom shop, yes there are luthiers at fender, many of them go on to make their own companies like Suhr etc. I don't know if they have a day to day in the custom shop but they certainly exist.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I was talking custom shop, yes there are luthiers at fender, many of them go on to make their own companies like Suhr etc. I don't know if they have a day to day in the custom shop but they certainly exist.

Not for the £3-5k basses these days, Masterbuilt possibly but they’re way north of £5k

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

You mean CNC operators and 'build technicians'

I guess that’s what the original question was coming from - how much difference other than cost of wages is a CNC operator in the USA vs one in Indonesia?

 

The plan would be to defret whatever so ild end up doing work on it anyway… theres a short scale secondhand Warmoth neck on eBay for £300 (which is overpriced) and the same price as a whole secondhand sire u5 for similar and a £70 retrovibe equivalent… I’m sure the warmoth is better - but by the time I rip the frets out etc I’m taking out a chunk of the value I just paid for 

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I guess that’s what the original question was coming from - how much difference other than cost of wages is a CNC operator in the USA vs one in Indonesia?

 

The plan would be to defret whatever so ild end up doing work on it anyway… theres a short scale secondhand Warmoth neck on eBay for £300 (which is overpriced) and the same price as a whole secondhand sire u5 for similar and a £70 retrovibe equivalent… I’m sure the warmoth is better - but by the time I rip the frets out etc I’m taking out a chunk of the value I just paid for 

 

Especially if I were de-fretting, I'd be buying the Warmoth  

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, Beedster said:

 

Especially if I were de-fretting, I'd be buying the Warmoth  

 

Although you're right Luke, I'd not pay £300 for that particular neck I think it's quite low-spec for Warmoth (there is a 'Best Offer option, I'd put in a cheeky £150, you never know.....)

 

Having said that I steer away from 'not new but unused' necks, as the whole idea worries me. Why has someone bought it new, drilled holes, attached tuners etc, yet not used it? 

[lidl e]

If youre mot fussed anout headstock, I'd go with guitarbuild.co.uk  

 

They make what looks like a nice neck with plenty of options at a good value.

 

I am currently putting together a fender bitsa and i fully admit i paid more to get a genuine fender neck. I really wanted an MIA, but couldnt grt the configuration i needed. The MIA was double the MIM i got and i am sure the only differencr is a mexican fella running the cnc.

[PaulThePlug]

How about twin--cam on the bay...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234891590065

P or J, Maple or Rosewood... £60

Edited March 26, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[bloke_zero]

I got a USACG neck a few years ago (they are now at MJT - https://www.mjtagedfinishes.com/necks) and it's a real cut above the allparts. It was $450 unfinished. The allparts was good, really solid and even, but the USAGC was just beautifully finished  and had graphite stiffening rods added - it's really a joy to play. I think that is the kind of difference, like a handmade suit vs off the shelf (not that I have a handmade suit!).

I have a couple of Warmoth necks and they are really nice. I'm sure they are all CNC, but's a question of what happens before and after the CNC machine (conception, construction and finish).

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 26/03/2023 at 03:23, kodiakblair said:

Not 'fairly big', it's the main factor.

 

There's almost £500 between an AllParts/Mighty Mite and a Fender replacement neck yet they're produced the same way and carry the same "may not fit/might required work" warning.

 

 

'Crafted in Corona' is a nice way of saying where the CNC machine is located 🤣

 

FFS, £679 and you still need to cut the nut slots 🤬

Well, hard to cut the nut slots correctly without the neck and strings being mounted, so not much of a surprise there, it would be the same no matter how well the neck otherwise was made, what shocks me is that it might require fret leveling, that definitely should not be the case for a neck at that price, heck my super cheap budget Ibanez Mikro Bass as well as my likewise budget Harley Benton GuitarBass had perfect fretwork right from stock.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Woodinblack]

6 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well, hard to cut the nut slots correctly without the neck and strings being mounted, so not much of a surprise there

 

Why? Is the position of the strings a mystery before the neck is mounted? Pretty sure I could take a wild stab at where they are supposed to go even without bolting it to a body (although seeing some fenders, maybe I am wrong).

[Baloney Balderdash]

19 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Why? Is the position of the strings a mystery before the neck is mounted? Pretty sure I could take a wild stab at where they are supposed to go even without bolting it to a body (although seeing some fenders, maybe I am wrong).

 

As you can see on the picture of that neck the nut slots are in fact already cut, they are just not cut to dead on correct depth, which is what I am talking about, and I am pretty certain what they are talking about too in that disclaimer.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash