Fender, Where is the Value?

[miles'tone]

4 hours ago, dclaassen said:

one way to not overspend is to find a good, war scarred player’s bass. I have no interest in a “perfect “ looking instrument…it’s meant to be carried around and played.

I totally agree.

A war scarred players bass is usually (in my experience) a good or great example that has been a keeper for that very reason.*

 

The reason I came back to this thread is to discuss Value v Wealth.

 

These are two different things.

 

Value = the monetary worth of an item in the marketplace. 

Wealth = what that item brings to your life.

 

Buying a bass, like an American Fender (the American Fender that feels right for you I should add), does feel like a big sum to stump up initially. However, life being what it is, that monetary amount isn't so much that you wouldn't see it frittered away or absorbed into everyday life before you knew it. That's how far it's monetary value will travel. 

 

The Wealth attached to that bass, on the other hand, is how it improves your life, by inspiring you to play the thing everything time you look at it. Good for the head, good for the soul, everyday, for life.

 

That's true wealth right there.

In terms of value, a total bargain.

 

 

 

 

 

*or they've lived life completely unaware of Basschat 😄

[Lozz196]

That’s a great way of describing it @miles'tone

 

I have a (ahem) few US Fenders, all great instruments but the true feeling of joy that I get from playing my 2013-16 series maple fretboard Precisions just doesn’t happen with the others. 
 

That would be the wealth.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, miles'tone said:

The Wealth attached to that bass, on the other hand, is how it improves your life, by inspiring you to play the thing everything time you look at it. Good for the head, good for the soul, everyday, for life.

I've one of those basses, Harley Benton PB-50.

 

Seen more play in the 9 year I've owned it than anything else. Fenders are in cases upstairs while the Benton always remains within reach 👍

[miles'tone]

17 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

I've one of those basses, Harley Benton PB-50.

 

Seen more play in the 9 year I've owned it than anything else. Fenders are in cases upstairs while the Benton always remains within reach 👍

Awesome 👌 

Hey choices are a good thing! 

I also have 2 Harley Bentons on my wall - a shorty P that's my son's, and an all black fretless 5er (something something 550?) that I don't really play, but I might eventually... It's a deko from way back that cost me £48 quid delivered. It's awesome and luckily has no value so I've kept it. 

My only other electric bass is a great American P bass which I will have for life.

You don't have to be rich to be wealthy 😉

[kodiakblair]

1 minute ago, miles'tone said:

You don't have to be rich to be wealthy 😉

Sure don't but there'd be a better chance at rich if I didn't have another 50 basses 😄

[T-Bay]

I have an ultra that I bought myself as a 50th birthday reward. I don’t regret one penny of it. By far the nicest bass I have ever played. Is it worth the cost? To me yes, to someone else? Who cares! I don’t worry what other people want to spend their money on. I have guitars and basses worth from £50 to a couple grand but each performs a role for me. I have a Sire LP copy I love. Is it as good as a Gibson? Tribute or studio then probably yes, but doesn’t have the sound to match the higher scale ones.

[Chienmortbb]

18 hours ago, T-Bay said:

have a Sire LP copy I love. Is it as good as a Gibson? Tribute or studio then probably yes, but doesn’t have the sound to match the higher scale ones.

That is likely down to the pickups. Most of the great Gibson LPs were ones 10 or more years old when The Alnico magnets had lost some of their magnetism. 

[40hz]

On 25/11/2022 at 14:03, Chienmortbb said:

I was just drooling over a white Aerodyne Precision and wondered if it is worth £1300? TO create context, I bought a Black Aerodyne jazz bass as a personal import from Japan in 2003. It cost me just over £400 plus about £75 in duties and charges. Was that worth it? Yes they were going for £1000 here and I love that bass. Since then, I have bought and sold a number of basses costing less than that, and each one was more than gigable. I am currently gigging a Marcus Miller M2 at £270 from Thomann, cheaper than a decent Sqeuir*. My third bass and again very gigable is a Peavey P bass. It cost £50 2nd hand and has a superb neck. So what are Fender, especially USA ones, worth?

 

* deliberate misspelling of a Fender missspelling

Are you sure they were £1000 here? I distinctly remember very nearly buying a Japanese Aerodyne PJ Jazz for around £600, new, in 2004, before settling on a Yamaha TRB4II in the shop.

[Chienmortbb]

11 hours ago, 40hz said:

Are you sure they were £1000 here? I distinctly remember very nearly buying a Japanese Aerodyne PJ Jazz for around £600, new, in 2004, before settling on a Yamaha TRB4II in the shop.

There was a huge music superstore in Southampton, it is not there now. The mar was whereI first saw the Black Aerodyne.Loved the look, thought that it could not plat well, played it and fell I love. That was probably 2002 although mine is a 2003 model. It was £995 or £999. I could not afford that and was not gigging ,it was a dream. sI travelled to Japan-once or twice a year, I knew of the Ishibashi Music Store  in Shinsaibashi, Osaka. They had it for about  £420 so I arranged a personal import and with Shipping,i nsurance and duties it came In at about £550. If it were a an available here for£600 newIwould have ought it asI had no Warranty with mine. When it arrived it was still in tune!

I am not disputing your experience but could not find one here for £600 whenI ordered mine.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Chienmortbb

[Tim2291]

The value is in their marketing team... 

[Chienmortbb]

42 minutes ago, Tim2291 said:

The value is in their marketing team... 

Is that not the cost rather than the value?

[40hz]

On 29/11/2022 at 11:35, Chienmortbb said:

There was a huge music superstore in Southampton, it is not there now. The mar was whereI first saw the Black Aerodyne.Loved the look, thought that it could not plat well, played it and fell I love. That was probably 2002 although mine is a 2003 model. It was £995 or £999. I could not afford that and was not gigging ,it was a dream. sI travelled to Japan-once or twice a year, I knew of the Ishibashi Music Store  in Shinsaibashi, Osaka. They had it for about  £420 so I arranged a personal import and with Shipping,i nsurance and duties it came In at about £550. If it were a an available here for£600 newIwould have ought it asI had no Warranty with mine. When it arrived it was still in tune!

I am not disputing your experience but could not find one here for £600 whenI ordered mine.

Now it's playing on my mind!

 

Just checked 'internet way back' archiving. GAK, had them at £549 in 2004!

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by 40hz

[Chienmortbb]

50 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Now it's playing on my mind!

 

Just checked 'internet way back' archiving. GAK, had them at £549 in 2004!

 

I am not doubting your word. Clearly close to £1000 was a massive mark-up by Fender and I remember checking all over the UK for a better price but could not find it.

[lidl e]

The biggest reason they are worth it is resale value.

[TheLowDown]

30 minutes ago, lidl e said:

The biggest reason they are worth it is resale value.

I don't understand why people always tout resale value as a reason to buy a Fender. I would have thought it applies much more to collectors or people who prefer buying gear than playing it, because many of us are buying a bass to get plenty of use out of it. If I bought a bass with any view of selling it in the near future, then I probably didn't give the purchase much thought. Value for money is much more important than resale value to me, and that's why Fender never appear anywhere on my purchasing radar.

Edited November 30, 2022 by TheLowDown

[lidl e]

2 minutes ago, TheLowDown said:

I don't understand why people always tout resale value as a reason to buy a Fender. I would have thought it applies much more to collectors or people who prefer buying gear than playing it, because many of us are buying a bass to get plenty of use out of it. If I bought a bass with any view of selling it in the near future, then I probably didn't give the purchase much thought. Value for money is much more important than resale value to m.e

Things change. People want to upgrade all the time.

 

What if for arguments sake, one day you want a sadowsky.  Id tou bought a fender for 1100 15 years ago,  you're getting 11-1400 today to go towards that new bass assuming it's in good shape.

 

If you bought a schecther or a dean for like 7-800 back then, you're barely getting 500 back if that.

 

I personally have other reasons for prefering fender as well, and some of that is definitely in my head,  but you cant discount resale value as a very good reason to buy fender.

 

[crazycloud]

On 26/11/2022 at 01:03, Chienmortbb said:

So what are Fender, especially USA ones, worth?

Nowhere near what they're priced at.

[Lozz196]

I think that the second hand price, around £1100/£1200 is what they really should be when new.

[Reggaebass]

I paid £1500 for my jazz elite and I think it’s worth every penny 

[dclaassen]

I don't understand the point...instruments are tools for creative expression. Find the one that works for you, in whatever context that is. For a lot of gigging musicians, that means having a P or J bass in the toolbox, for all of the good reasons others have given in this conversation. I can't get along with a lot of top-end basses, for various reasons...it's personal preference...but P and J basses are different. For a lot of BL's and sound engineers, it's like waiting at the station and a train comes. Good news, because that's what they expected. If a bus pulls up on the rails, this is an unexpected and probably unwelcome development. It could be a really nice bus...doesn't matter. 

 

Just my opinion....and I do use a J bass most of the time on rock/pop/country music. 

 

Not jazz though....

[tegs07]

16 hours ago, TheLowDown said:

I don't understand why people always tout resale value as a reason to buy a Fender. I would have thought it applies much more to collectors or people who prefer buying gear than playing it, because many of us are buying a bass to get plenty of use out of it. If I bought a bass with any view of selling it in the near future, then I probably didn't give the purchase much thought. Value for money is much more important than resale value to me, and that's why Fender never appear anywhere on my purchasing radar.

Probably for the same reason so many people buy a VW Golf. It tends to do what it is advertised to do. There are better/worse/cheaper/more expensive vehicles out there but generally you can’t go that far wrong with a Golf and if you want to upgrade/change your mind in a couple of years time then there will be plenty of buyers and the resale value will be pretty good.

I’ve had several Fenders over the years. Some have stuck with me, some I have passed on. Never had a terrible one, nor one I consider to be vastly overpriced.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by tegs07

[40hz]

Fenders USA models are, in this climate, about 'right' price wise. £1500-ish for a USA built instrument is almost bargainous when compared, for example, to things like Musicman Basses (£2800-3000) and European Teambuilt Warwicks (2-3.5k).

 

On the flipside, with just how good the Mexican line is, and the higher end Squiers, one does have to wonder if they're worth it in comparison to their stablemates. I've always thought, just how much *can* you perfect these relatively basic designs before you're solely trading on the catchet of being USA built. As long as it's solidly constructed, finished well and has fairly decent hardware, do the differences between USA, Mex and Squier (which are fag-paper thin) really matter?

 

To end my stream of consciousness post, if you can afford it and you like it, isn't that really all that matters?

[Machines]

2 hours ago, dclaassen said:

I don't understand the point...instruments are tools for creative expression.

 

For some people they are tools to pay their bills also.

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, dclaassen said:

I don't understand the point...instruments are tools for creative expression. Find the one that works for you, in whatever context that is. For a lot of gigging musicians, that means having a P or J bass in the toolbox, for all of the good reasons others have given in this conversation. I can't get along with a lot of top-end basses, for various reasons...it's personal preference...but P and J basses are different. For a lot of BL's and sound engineers, it's like waiting at the station and a train comes. Good news, because that's what they expected. If a bus pulls up on the rails, this is an unexpected and probably unwelcome development. It could be a really nice bus...doesn't matter. 

 

Just my opinion....and I do use a J bass most of the time on rock/pop/country music. 

 

Not jazz though....

I do not disagree with virtually all you have said. I have a Peavey P Bass that I love, £50 second hand. It was probably less than  £200 new. I have the greatest respect for Leo Fender. He really gave us the tools of our trade/hobby. There was no magic, just good, solid engineering. No Tonewoods, just the woods available locally in the USA. Of course, we are all able to choose what we buy, but some of the USA made instruments have really disappointed me and the only "Fender" I have gelled with is my Japanese made Aerodyne Jass Bass.

[dclaassen]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

I do not disagree with virtually all you have said. I have a Peavey P Bass that I love, £50 second hand. It was probably less than  £200 new. I have the greatest respect for Leo Fender. He really gave us the tools of our trade/hobby. There was no magic, just good, solid engineering. No Tonewoods, just the woods available locally in the USA. Of course, we are all able to choose what we buy, but some of the USA made instruments have really disappointed me and the only "Fender" I have gelled with is my Japanese made Aerodyne Jass Bass.

Gotcha...I have owned two USA Fenders, and currently own a Korean one....outstanding!!!!