Thomann - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - A returns saga...

[spacecowboy]

Around the middle of October I bought one of Sires new Alder / Rosewood / Roasted Maple 5 string P basses from Thomann, it was in stock a month before the UK stores, cheaper, and, available in my favourite colour way of white body with a tort guard, perfect! 

 

A week later the bass arrives, the outer shipper is water damaged and whatever is inside is banging around in what feels like thin air... open it up and there is a tiny inner wedge shaped bass box inside a huge outer shipper and 4 lengths of that crinkle paper attempting to keep everything happy... inner box isn't taped, but looks like nothing has fallen out during transit.

 

But that hasn't stopped Sire / Thomman sending out a bass rife with QC issues...

 

• Neck pocket fit is awful, there is a wedged 2mm exposed gap on one side and you can't tighten it up cause one of the neck screws just spins (uh oh someone drilled the hole too big and it isn't biting on the neck wood)
• Body paint / lacquer is swirled
• Pickguard has deep scratches definitely look like they were done by a knife
• scratches and marks on the fingerboard including an absolute mess of scratches on the 12th fret
• Headstock had whoops I've hit it off a wall marks on front and back
• Action higher than a high thing (4mm) yes I can set it up... but that's way out of any respectable standard and after all the rest why would I go near this truss rod?

 

Within 10 minutes of my return request email Thomann accept the return, no apology, no "oh wow that's bad lol" just, heres a label go and drop it off at one of these "DHL UK Parcel" places (all newsagents) now this is where my frustrations begin... These DHL Parcel UK places are not DHL or DHL Service points, they're a service by convenience stores who stock pile returns and take 20p per parcel for their trouble. I went to 2 local ones to me, both refused to take the parcel, "it's too big" (their stores are tiny) "DHL don't come" "I've had parcels here for months"... not a good start. I tell Thomann, they don't listen to a word, just recommending I try taking it back to one of the stores i had tried previously, it was seriously like talking to a robot, what's hard to understand about, "I've gone to store A, they won't take it, they say DHL don't pick them up, they don't wan't a parcel half the size of their store sitting gathering dust..." "I'm sorry to hear that, have you tried taking it to store A?" ... repeat.

 

On my third attempt I find a convenience store who VERY reluctantly take it in, same story, DHL haven't been for weeks, no guarantees, want me to call back today to check in with them... I do, and, after a week, it's still in their shop, no sign of DHL and they're quite rightly sick of it, they want me to come and pick it up today and make it someone else's problem... better still Thomann have stopped replying to me...

 

I can't send the parcel via DHL or a DHL Service point as the label from Thomann only covers DHL UK Parcels... which as of right now is a Mickey Mouse, cheap way of Thomann to deflect parcel returns and hope people just give up trying to send stuff back, this is a £500 bass, so nothing major, but imagine it was a 2k bass. 

 

I'm most likely going to have to go and get the parcel back from the store today, apologise, and then out of my pocket pay for a proper courier, complain, and hope Thomann do the right thing and reimburse everything. 

 

All I wanted was a new 5er for practice! I got a headache!

 

Oh and the good? No Brexit taxes on anything... but thats it! 

[BigRedX]

13 minutes ago, spacecowboy said:

Oh and the good? No Brexit taxes on anything... but thats it! 

 

There are import taxes and VAT on it. It's just that Thomann have include those in the price.

 

Last time I had to return something to Thomann (before the UK left the EU) DHL came to my door to pick it up. Can you not get them to do this? Alternatively can you not go directly to your local DHL depot and have it taken from there?

[spacecowboy]

Just now, BigRedX said:

 

There are import taxes and VAT on it. It's just that Thomann have include those in the price.

 

Last time I had to return something to Thomann (before the UK left the EU) DHL came to my door to pick it up. Can you not get them to do this? Alternatively can you not go directly to your local DHL depot and have it taken from there?

 

Thanks for reading the above, DHL Parcel UK labels are not accepted by DHL or DHL Service points so no I can't drop it off or would have done it by now. 

 

I think you miss the point on the Brexit tax, I know they're baked in to the cost, but to get the bass to my door from the EU, cheaper and quicker than the UK with no hidden nasties is in my opinion a win.

[BigRedX]

If that's the case I'd kick up a stink on their social media, and keep doing it until they sort out someone to come and pick it up from you personally.

[spacecowboy]

29 minutes ago, spacecowboy said:

 

Thanks for reading the above, DHL Parcel UK labels are not accepted by DHL or DHL Service points so no I can't drop it off or would have done it by now. 

 

I think you miss the point on the Brexit tax, I know they're baked in to the cost, but to get the bass to my door from the EU, cheaper and quicker than the UK with no hidden nasties is in my opinion a win.

 

@BigRedX

 

My apologies for that really curt reply, I was going 10 rounds with Thomann at the same time, you didn't need that. 

 

So after not accepting any solution other than them coming to me they have given in and will be sending a courier to me next week, another one on the good pile, but I've had to fight over 2 hours for this!! 

[jezzaboy]

A similar thing happened to me this week.

 

Bought a bass and got the DHL tracking. I realised that no one would be in to accept delivery so chose the "collect from local parcel shop" option. On the morning got a notification that bass was on the van. Got home and got a e mail saying that they couldn`t deliver the bass and contact the supplier.

 

Guessing that the bass had been refused due to the size, I spent 22 mins on the phone to DHL who as soon as they asked me for the tracking number promptly cut me off!

 

After another 35 mins on the phone an operator confirmed that it was too large for the shop and would I like it delivered the next day to my home address. So in the end the guy was really helpful and I got the bass. 

 

But the bass arrived with one of the tuner clover stem broke off and lying in the bottom of the gig bag. Don`t know how it happened as the bag showed no sign of damage and the shop are sorting it out for me, so all good.

[mr4stringz]

How did you pay for it?

 

If by credit or debit card consider going down the chargeback route given you’ve given the merchant ample time and opportunity to resolve and they’ve failed to.

[Grimalkin]

I bought a set of DiMarzio Ultra Jazz Pickups only to find the neck pickup was dead on arrival. The tech who was working on the bass for me tested the pickup end to end, it was an internal break in the circuit. I contacted Thomann to inform them and the chap wanted me to provide a video of the testing... I told them it would be pointless. Anywho, all in all it took about a month and a half to turn it around a receive a replacement.

 

This may be an outlier but it certainly wasn't good. The bass was minus string tension for about two months so the neck was curvy. Took about a month of tweeking to put it back into shape.

[uk_lefty]

6 hours ago, spacecowboy said:

DHL UK Parcel" places (all newsagents) now this is where my frustrations begin... These DHL Parcel UK places are not DHL or DHL Service points, they're a service by convenience stores who stock pile returns and take 20p per parcel for their trouble. I went to 2 local ones to me, both refused to take the parcel, "it's too big" (their stores are tiny) "DHL don't come" "I've had parcels here for months"... not a good start. 

I sympathize. There's no way of knowing which DHL places will take it without going in and asking, the DHL website is no help at all. Took me bl00dy ages, I was even going into just any newsagent or post office and asking in hope that they could take it. Luckily it was only a £66 pedal and I found a wine merchants eventually that takes that specific DHL type of parcel. 

[spacecowboy]

5 hours ago, mr4stringz said:

How did you pay for it?

 

If by credit or debit card consider going down the chargeback route given you’ve given the merchant ample time and opportunity to resolve and they’ve failed to.

Yeah on debit card, let’s see how this new pickup option works out! Never again though mate! 

[Gramski]

20 hours ago, spacecowboy said:

I think you miss the point on the Brexit tax, I know they're baked in to the cost, but to get the bass to my door from the EU, cheaper and quicker than the UK with no hidden nasties is in my opinion a win.

 

I think you might have found a "hidden nasty".

 

For info; I've had GuitarGuitar price match a Thomann price before (for a BB434). I'm not saying GuitarGuitar are perfect but they are probably easier to get returns to \ arrange pickups if something goes wrong.

[uk_lefty]

To be honest I don't think this is Thomann's fault. If DHL's website could actually distinguish between places that will take this certain type of parcel and places that won't then I wouldn't have wasted so much time and stress. Thomann makes it very easy to send something back... In theory. It's DHL that is failing here. 

[42Hz]

I mostly have big parcels delivered to my workplace.

I once had to return a guitar to Thomann. They sent a label for a transport meaning that I had to send it via packet shop. I checked with them and facing the same kind of misery as you describe. I then asked Thomann for a different label/voucher. I had no problems with that, really, and the packet was sent and picked up (by probably DHL) at my workplace. If Thomann hasn't changed their policy it shouldn't be a problem.

The QA issues sound bad. Up to now I heard mostly good about Sire but apparently they all can fail. I was gassing quite hard over the SBMM short scale but after reading of the big variation in quality I concluded that it was not worth the risk. I still use my cheap Squier for short scale. It wasn't perfect but in that price range (1/4 of the SBMM) it is easier just to shrug and do the fret level and replace the output jack.

[42Hz]

If you don't get feed back when writing Thomann you can also call their hotline on phone ...

If you talk nice to them they will be nice to you 😉

Edited November 6, 2022 by 42Hz

[sPiKi]

I had a similar experience recently with returning a Harley Benton wireless guitar system. I followed the returns instructions, made the 12 mile round trip to my nearest drop off point, only to be told by the news agent, they haven't been returning DHL parcels for a couple of years. After a lot of faffing and emails to Thomann, I did find another drop off point, this time a 30 mile round trip and it was a fingers crossed type scenario as the shop keeper told me that sometimes the item scans successfully  and gets into the DHL system but most often it doesn't! Incredible that a company operates like this. Anyway, after about 6 weeks I got my money back. I was tempted to keep the item after the first failed attempt but the amount of hiss and loss of tone meant it useless and had to go back. Bottom line for me - if I need any gear  in the future, order from somewhere else.

[gafbass02]

Same thing happened to me, a day schlepping around shops, each saying the box was too big. Eventually I managed to persuade Thomann that they had to collect from my work. Very annoying and has put me off buying guitars from them. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by gafbass02

[uk_lefty]

3 hours ago, gafbass02 said:

Very annoying and has put me off buying guitars from them. 

I dunno. When they do Sire basses at £200 less than Anderson's I'd take the risk.

[Aidan63]

but what if they are able to beat Andertons on price because they take Sire's 2nds or batches with more 2nds in to get a better price from Sire ? We don't know what goes on in the supply chain. I know that places like Richard's Guitars stopped dealing with many big names because of the quality issues and the distributors putting the onus on the store to rectify issues.

There have been times in my industry when I have questioned the quality of the supply line when it seemed to me the Germans were sending the 2nds to the UK, and that was before the B word made it harder to return stuff

 

[dmccombe7]

Not good at all.

I bought a Hartke Kilo from them when they first came out. It was faulty. I contacted them and the courier picked it up from the house free of charge.

Only downside was i had paid with my debit card and was hit for exchange rates both when i bought it and on the refund. It cost me £35 in charges from my bank. Was about 10 yrs ago if i remember right.

Sounds like the bass is 2nd hand and if not its a disgrace for any manufacturer to allow that out of the factory.

I'm a big fan of Andertons but Bass Direct is where i've bought more gear from than anywhere else.

Also used GAK and Guitar Guitar.

Dave

[chyc]

I've bought just one instrument at Thomann since B'xit (HB mandolin). It was broken. What on earth is going on with their quality control?

 

As an aside, delivery was by UPS, who were awful. I received the email that they were going to deliver the day after they delivered it, and I was out. They just left it out on the front door. I also had to pay an outrageous fee, as in a take the p*ss administration fee that UPS just slapped on top of the duty charge and there was nowhere showing that they would do this before I bought the goods. Things are much better in that regard now.

 

To Thomann's credit, they (eventually) sent another instrument. Guess they figured it was cheaper to just send a second instrument than receive and fix my broken one.

[spacecowboy]

Yeah it's a little worrying isn't it, I've bought many things from Thomann all visible on my account still and I've also bought a 5 String Sire in the past too without any problems! But this one got through the net!

 

I'd really like to know the percentage of returns they get from the UK though, it's always a risk buying without playing etc, but as this has come direct from a manufacturer to distributor I'd have liked to have seen at least some of the problems addressed before it got to me... 

 

Maybe they tried... maybe they broke the neck screw

[spacecowboy]

22 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

To be honest I don't think this is Thomann's fault. If DHL's website could actually distinguish between places that will take this certain type of parcel and places that won't then I wouldn't have wasted so much time and stress. Thomann makes it very easy to send something back... In theory. It's DHL that is failing here. 

 

Well yes and no. They're both at fault. 

 

Thomann are using DHL's bottom tier of services for returns, for you to become a DHL UK Parcels vendor you need a click to pay card system installed in your premises that's it, you then scan the parcel, an email is then sent to DHL to come and pick the parcel up, you pop a sticker on the parcel box... you get 20p if and when DHL turn up.

 

Now if you're DHL you're not going to drop everything and go and pick up 1 parcel, so you're bottom of the queue, forever it seems, when I went back to the shop to collect my parcel they showed me the room where they keep all the return parcels dropped off with them and there were hundreds, no word of lie, hundreds, no one from DHL had been there for weeks. Imagine DHL's system, I doubt they have a record of all 3500 return points and how many parcels each one has... and how long until the emails telling them to come and get the parcels are archived and forgotten about.

 

Now this is when I think it is Thomanns responsibility to do more, I spent £500, got a shoddy product, I want that money back, Thomann want their stock back, Thomann are happy to wait an indefinite amount of time to have the parcel picked up at one of these DHL Parcel UK points, even when it is picked up,  it then goes to a UK Thomann HUB and then forwarded back to Germany, they state at the hub "please expect up to 3 weeks for the parcel to leave and arrive in Germany", so at this point with doing the absolute bare minimum they're happy to wait possibly 8 weeks to get the bass back and only then issue a refund... I'm without a bass and the funds to buy a bass for 8 weeks, all for their inability to QC an outgoing product properly.

 

After kicking off and refusing another DHL Parcels UK label (what on earth was that going to achieve) full fat proper DHL are coming to me this Wednesday... it's still possibly going to sit at the UK hub for 3 weeks mind...

 

I'm going to stick to UK vendors moving forward, such a shame as I always had good things to say about them!

[spacecowboy]

TBF DHL go out of their way to promote this service to online businesses, but in practice it's really not working at all. 

 

https://www.dhl.com/gb-en/home/our-divisions/parcel/business-users/business-services/returns.html

 

 

[BigRedX]

23 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

To be honest I don't think this is Thomann's fault. If DHL's website could actually distinguish between places that will take this certain type of parcel and places that won't then I wouldn't have wasted so much time and stress. Thomann makes it very easy to send something back... In theory. It's DHL that is failing here. 

 

It's completely Thomann's fault. They have picked a delivery company, that in the UK at least, are incapable of efficiently handling returns for a lot of the size of parcels Thomann send out.

[lemmywinks]

I had the same issues with DHL returns, convenience stores and Thomann. In my case the first shop refused the parcel due to size (classical guitar size) and the second accepted it but the barcode wouldn't scan so I ended up contacting Thomann who arranged a collection from my workplace and sent me a new label.

 

Customer service on Thomann's part was excellent, although this was in January and it looks like they're still having the same issues with DHL. They also dumped the parcel in the porch at my work and didn't bother to knock or ring the bell.