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Woodinblack

Zoom B1 Four

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For some reason the GuitarLab software decided to play nicely and not 'blank' my B1X-4 this morning. No need to delete USB drivers etc. thank goodness! 

Managed to upload 13 of the new effects I wanted and made space by deleting a bunch of amp and cab sims I'm unlikely to use, leaving me at about 80% memory.

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11 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Wow, that's effort! You would have thought they would have made it a bit easier than that! 

On the plus side I've had a fun couple of hours on ToneLib creating several bespoke patches. Particularly like the slapback delay :)

It was a pain, and I have the exact same issue with my B3n so I sort of knew the workaround. I don’t think it’s the drivers as such, just that Guitarlab don’t seem to connect with them and so needs refreshing.

Ive yet to use ToneLib with this one, do you need to use the Zoom software to get the extra effects first, or can they be got through ToneLib?

Ive mainly been using the first patch, Cleansans, but with the blend turned almost full up. This is now very close to the tone I like to use with my rig. 

Edited by dave_bass5

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Zoom GuitarLab software for the additional effects, which are not available through ToneLib. 

I really like the ToneLib interface - it makes editing patches a doddle!

I added the Low EQ, with tweaked settings, to the start of 20 patches and the ZNR, mostly at the end of the chain of several along the way, to curtail noisy patches, apart from one where it was already adjacent to the noisy effect and seemed to work best right next to that particular effect.

Did all the edits and backed up the changes all within 15 mins. 

Edited by Al Krow

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3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

I really like the ToneLib interface - it makes editing patches a doddle!

Did all the edits and backed up the changes all within 15 mins. 

+1

I have never used a Helix Stomp so I can't comment but the combination of ToneLib and the B1Four provide an easy, user friendly, simplistic method of creating bass sounds and tones. I really couldn't be happier with the  product. I sit the B1Four on my desk beside the pc keyboard, power it with the USB cable then connect my bass to both the B1FOUR and my pedal board then the output from the Zoom & pedal board go through a switch into my Fender Rumble and BF Super Compact. I can then emulate the pedal board sounds thro the B1Four using ToneLib to tweak the Patch settings & save on the Zoom and save a backup on the pc.Using the switch to toggle back & forth means I can get really close to my pedal board's bouquet of tones using the live amp rig ( okay only at room volume).

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13 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

see bit OT as it's a question about your setup rather than photos of mine... 
Why not just take the HX stomp out live? 
Reason I ask is I'm thinking changing my B3n for a Stomp. But you've had both and then gone for the B1x live... I'm confused

Hi Luke - pulling you onto this thread to deal with your very valid question. 

I posted quite a detailed rationale for why I, and a much more experienced US bassist (Jimfist), were both going back to a simpler Zoom pedal having had the Helix HX Stomp. Please see my post: Posted Wednesday at 00:23 where I share our combined thoughts on the matter.

In my mind there is no question that the Stomp is the better, more capable and more sophisticated piece of kit and I barely scratched the surface of what it could do / only got round to making a couple of cursory initial patches. Interestingly a BC mate of mine gave me quite a hard time for not getting to grips with the Stomp and the fact that it was sitting on my board as an expensive tuner! However, the very fact that I felt little motivation to get into it whereas (as can be seen from this and the related Zoom patches thread) I've gone to town with the new Zoom pedal, kinda reflects very well the ease of work flow point I made in that post. (The slightly amusing thing, is that having got a Stomp himself and indeed got to grips with it - my mate actually came to the same conclusion as I did, which is the Stomp was more than he was going to need and he's returned his). 

For balance - there are of course a ton of happy Stomp users on the Stomp thread and a number of both Zoom and HX Effects users who have 'upgraded' to the Stomp. And I'm certainly not ruling out going back to the Stomp (it's successor or similarly capable multi) in the future.

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Here’s the irony. The Helix Native software makes programming the Stomp pretty simple and when it comes down to it time spent with any unit and understanding the U.I. is part of the learning curve. The actual effects, cab sims etc likely all share ‘parameters’ so the actual effects and getting what you want in terms of delay times, eq, compression etc.

I believe my experience with the Stomp is being recounted and it’s not 100% accurate. I already have a pedal board with the few effects I already use - compressor, eq, drive, hpf- I would have kept the stomp but I’m quite happy with my existing board but in saying that if I was playing in ear only gigs the stomp would be a keeper as it’s so versatile to have the amp and cab sims. Overall I don’t need heaps of amp and cab models for my gigs or a massive variation in sounds as my rig does that job!

I was actually gonna make you an offer on your stomp@Al Krow so again much like the false representation of my thoughts on Yamaha basses I’d happily gig and use a Stomp I just didn’t fancy paying £400 at the time to buy effects I already own. When one comes up at the price I’m happy with I’ll get one but for now I don’t feel like I’m missing out. I know what the unit is capable of and feel comfortable with the interface and having used it for more than a tuner I know where and how it would fit into the grand scheme of my gigging board. Basically if my band go full in ears I’ll get one.

 

 

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I agree that for anyone going in-ears the Stomp looks ideal and is way more capable than a £70 B1-4. No question. And it's a Yamaha product after all 😁

Is the Helix Native software free for Stomp owners in the same way that Zoom's GuitarLab or ToneLib is?

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I should restate that the edit software for the hx is free. Native is the entire hx fx and amps etc as a plug in. It’s available as a 14 day trial. 

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I also almost got a Stomp (well, started looking in to one) a while ago. It seems like it can do almost everything, and way better than the Zoom boxes. My issue though, is i don’t want something that dose everything, i want something that does what i want it to do, and to do it in a way that is simple and fast.

I know you don't have to use all the features os the Stomp, but it seems to me that if you have it why not get the most from it. I’d be tempted to keep tweaking and trying different patch routing etc. Quite distracting for me as all i want is a basic good tone to play with at home. 

The Zoom on the other hand allows me to place effects in an order I’m used to, and not really many other ways. Its much closer to mimicking a small pedal board, and so its very easy for me to get to grips with it and get the tones out of it without spending too much time with other options and reading manuals etc. This is why i prefer the B1. I’m not a technophobe, far from it, i love gadgets, but sometimes getting something that does the job quickly is preferable over something much more advanced but with features ill never need. 

I dont think I’d be happy gigging with a Zoom box though, mainly because of the size. Tried it before, became a nightmare on stage due to me hitting the wrong buttons with my size 11’s and then having to bend down and put things right. I prefer an on/off switch for each effect so will stick to individual effects for now, but at home the B1-Four is just perfect. Its definitely a step or two ahead of the B1-on as far as usability goes. 

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@JohnDaBass I know you were particularly interested in how good the comps are on the Zoom effects.

Well I've not really rated them, until now!

The Glam Comp effect gets pretty close to the Spectracomp which is set always on at 3/10 of my board (I've posted the spec on the user patches thread - which I know you've seen). It's actually slightly less mid punchy and doesn't give a volume boost on my settings that the Spectracomp does, both of which I like better on the Zoom.

So I think I'm going to use the Glam Comp as my default comp for all my Zoom patches going forward. And I can't actually think of a good reason to hold on to my much loved Spectracomp right now, so I suspect that the B1X-4 carnage is going to claim its next victim on my board very shortly :)  

Edited by Al Krow
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I too was surprised  with the Glam Comp, quite nice what it does to the signal. I also like the Dual Comp. Nice and simple but still two band,. 

Edited by dave_bass5

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5 hours ago, krispn said:

I should restate that the edit software for the hx is free. Native is the entire hx fx and amps etc as a plug in. It’s available as a 14 day trial. 

Isn't it free if you have a full helix?

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4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@JohnDaBass

Well I've not really rated them, until now!

The Glam Comp effect gets pretty close to the Spectracomp which is set always on at 3/10 of my board.

@Al Krow thanks for that. I think your settings are just right for me as an always on effect. It only "costs" 13% of DSP allocation so it's going to be be standard on all my patches now. That's another example of how rich with knowhow this BC community really is. It's extremely gratifying to able to have other people's ears to confirm and verify personal assessments of setups of kit.👏

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36 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Isn't it free if you have a full helix?

HX edit is free regardless (but is useless unless you have Helix hardware to control with it)

Helix Native isn't free, but you get a big discount if you have a Helix device serial number registered to you - I paid $120 inc UK taxes... but it would have been 4 times that if I didn't have the HX stomp already.

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1 hour ago, stoo said:

Helix Native isn't free, but you get a big discount if you have a Helix device serial number registered to you - I paid $120 inc UK taxes... but it would have been 4 times that if I didn't have the HX stomp already.

Oh yes, there was a time when that worked out as £49 on offer, but I think that was just after the reduction (if you have a LT or full). 

Annoyingly I can't register my HX effects as I got it second hand, or I would buy native.

ETA -

By a stroke of luck, now I can and have!

Edited by Woodinblack

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Maybe I should check this unit out. If it can turn anti compressor @Al Krow into the guy sharing compressor settings then it must be worthy...

BUT frankly NO pub audience is ever going to notice whether a bass player is using compression or not. (Can I suggest that folk who disagree simply switch their compressor off mid track and see if anyone in the audience notices?). In that context it's pointless.

- a prolific bass chatter 

 

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14 minutes ago, krispn said:

Maybe I should check this unit out. If it can turn anti compressor @Al Krow into the guy sharing compressor settings then it must be worthy...

BUT frankly NO pub audience is ever going to notice whether a bass player is using compression or not. (Can I suggest that folk who disagree simply switch their compressor off mid track and see if anyone in the audience notices?). In that context it's pointless.

- a prolific bass chatter 

Haha. When is that quote from? Surely folk are allowed to learn from other BC'ers (and in life generally) and to evolve and grow in their thinking, wouldn't you agree? Or do we all arrive on this forum as perfect and fully formed bassists?  

Here's what I would say today:

BUT frankly NO pub audience is ever going to notice whether a bass player is using compression or not. (Can I suggest that folk who disagree simply switch their compressor off mid track and see if anyone in the audience notices?). [Yup still agree with that!] In that context it's pointless, unless it's something that the bassist finds that they, themselves, notice and get pleasure from.

- a prolific bass chatter 

Edited by Al Krow

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2 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Your average pub audience member wouldn't even notice if you unplugged the bass.

Mine would!

But switch the compressor off, not a chance 😁

Edited by Al Krow

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It’s all banter but it just goes to show that getting all evangelical on a subject is a bit pointless. 

We all learn from experience it’s how this all works and the best way to learn. By this stage you’ve probably contradicted yourself on every topic at least once but thats the joy of learning. The journey not the destination right! 

Begin with the end in mind indeed!

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10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Mine would!

But switch the compressor off, not a chance 😁

Enhanced enjoyment?!

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Why do we constantly judge what we do in relation to whether an average audience member will notice? Do you only wear shoes because other people do? 

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1 minute ago, ped said:

Why do we constantly judge what we do in relation to whether an average audience member will notice? Do you only wear shoes because other people do? 

Theres another reason?

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1 minute ago, ped said:

Why do we constantly judge what we do in relation to whether an average audience member will notice? Do you only wear shoes because other people do? 

probably yes. 
I mean cultures where shoes aren't a thing, they aren't a thing. I think our society probably pressured my parents into thinking that shoes are something a young lad should wear when he starts walking.

I used to play barefoot for a few years. Goodness knows why. But the average audience member did notice that

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