Zoom B1 Four

[krispn]

Some folk don’t think a 3 band eq is essential and setting the amp up with a tone that works from the off is what many bassists do. Switching a three band eq on or off would a crowd notice? Would they notice for the right or wrong reasons? There’s few rules so long as it works!

I’m confident we’re all happy with what we’re doing on our gigs. Many bass chatter’s use their gigging experiences with their gear to inform their posts. Others like the banter, the research,  internet trawling and most importantly the community and this is reflected in their posts. Where the two cross over is when BC is a wonderful resource. 

This forum has clearly elucidated many folks and long may it continue we can always learn something new!

Edited May 12, 2019 by krispn

[Al Krow]

36 minutes ago, ped said:

Why do we constantly judge what we do in relation to whether an average audience member will notice? Do you only wear shoes because other people do? 

Actually there's quite a big point here, ped. It's a personal one for me, but I'm sure others will relate to it. It has nothing to do with shoes and everything to do with good use of time.

There are a lot things calling on our attention musically, from working on new material, band management / getting new gigs, trying to improve musicianship both as a bassist and a band member. I want to be prioritising those things that make a tangible difference. 

What I love most about my bass is playing a tight set live with great band mates, to an audience who are showing that they are loving the music, up and dancing and having a great night out. 

There's always a stock answer of 'do everything'. But back in the real world it's about making the best of use what limited spare time we have, particularly for those of us for whom music is a passion and not a full time job. So I want to avoid spending too much time on stuff that is going to have little or no impact on my audiences or that me and / or my band mates don't notice, and focus on stuff that does make a difference.

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So I want to avoid spending too much time on stuff that is going to have little or no impact on my audiences or that me and / or my band mates don't notice, and focus on stuff that does make a difference.

So chatting on basschat and buying effects pedals it is! 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Woodinblack

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

So chatting on basschat and buying effects pedals it is! 

Haha - no doubt I / we spend far too much time on here. But we're all allowed some R&R, right? And this beats fBook for me!  

Btw - if you get the Zoom B1-4 or the Helix Stomp, you can cut down a lot on buying pedals and maybe even start selling some!

Edited May 12, 2019 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

21 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Hi Luke - pulling you onto this thread to deal with your very valid question. 

I posted quite a detailed rationale for why I, and a much more experienced US bassist (Jimfist), were both going back to a simpler Zoom pedal having had the Helix HX Stomp. Please see my post: Posted Wednesday at 00:23 where I share our combined thoughts on the matter.

In my mind there is no question that the Stomp is the better, more capable and more sophisticated piece of kit and I barely scratched the surface of what it could do / only got round to making a couple of cursory initial patches. Interestingly a BC mate of mine gave me quite a hard time for not getting to grips with the Stomp and the fact that it was sitting on my board as an expensive tuner! However, the very fact that I felt little motivation to get into it whereas (as can be seen from this and the related Zoom patches thread) I've gone to town with the new Zoom pedal, kinda reflects very well the ease of work flow point I made in that post. (The slightly amusing thing, is that having got a Stomp himself and indeed got to grips with it - my mate actually came to the same conclusion as I did, which is the Stomp was more than he was going to need and he's returned his). 

For balance - there are of course a ton of happy Stomp users on the Stomp thread and a number of both Zoom and HX Effects users who have 'upgraded' to the Stomp. And I'm certainly not ruling out going back to the Stomp (it's successor or similarly capable multi) in the future.

That's really interesting (and @krispn's following one too) 

My playing with first a B3 then a B3n was first and foremost a reaction to playing at church with no backline and IEM. I'm actually fairly happy with a straight DI sound, but it turns out that amateur sound techs get better results if you give them something that sounds like a bass through an amp and cab rather than a flat signal (esp more modern sounding basses) I also am realising that theres' in my playing I tend to play with quite a difference between loud and quiet bits, and being able to dig in against something compressing works for me. 

So something like the Spetracomp compressor into a preamp with DI of some kind would on paper do me, I tried @owen's API preamp he used to have and on paper that worked but I wasn't loving the tone (Esp when compared to his Hellborg preamp 💗)  ... but then some overdrive is useful sometimes... and a tuner and before you know it I need a pedal board and to read all these threads where people discuss the best type of power supply... and I've still not got a friggin cab simulator... and you know what, I enjoy looking at the pedal board porn thread from time to time, but building a pedal board is one rabbit hole that I don't have any desire to get into... 
I want one box and plug and play. 
I reserve the right to change my mind on this one

The Zoom B3n is really very good, but I keep hearing that the amp models on the HX are a step up which is why I want to try it out (esp relevant using IEM) in the HX's favour is being able to assign pedals - currently wanting to switch something at the other end of the chain on the B3n is a pain*... and one button tuner... is it more than I need... well yes, but so is the B3n... 
So yes... I'm tempted to pick one up (esp now the price has come down and they are coming on the market secondhand) and sell the B3n 

 

*yes I know you can program it to avoid this with different patches.  

[ped]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Actually there's quite a big point here, ped. It's a personal one for me, but I'm sure others will relate to it. It has nothing to do with shoes and everything to do with good use of time.

There are a lot things calling on our attention musically, from working on new material, band management / getting new gigs, trying to improve musicianship both as a bassist and a band member. I want to be prioritising those things that make a tangible difference. 

What I love most about my bass is playing a tight set live with great band mates, to an audience who are showing that they are loving the music, up and dancing and having a great night out. 

There's always a stock answer of 'do everything'. But back in the real world it's about making the best of use what limited spare time we have, particularly for those of us for whom music is a passion and not a full time job. So I want to avoid spending too much time on stuff that is going to have little or no impact on my audiences or that me and / or my band mates don't notice, and focus on stuff that does make a difference.

I see your point too. However playing bass is a hobby for me and I enjoy being able to tell the difference between two types of compressor or whatever it might be. If I just wanted to do what the lowest common denominator could ascertain then I’d probably enjoy playing a lot less. 

I think we’ve posted before that if you’re happy, you okay better. Whether that’s because you’ve simplified your rig and love that it’s easier and cheaper, that’s awesome. And I’ve done that too. But the audience factor very little in my rig decisions because like others have said, they wouldn’t notice if I played keyboard bass. 

[ped]

Still tempted with a B14 if it’s really less noisy. Guess the only way to know is to try one! 

Does it have that ‘ensemble’ effect from the B1on?

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

Maybe I should check this unit out. If it can turn anti compressor @Al Krow into the guy sharing compressor settings then it must be worthy...

“BUT frankly NO pub audience is ever going to notice whether a bass player is using compression or not. (Can I suggest that folk who disagree simply switch their compressor off mid track and see if anyone in the audience notices?). In that context it's pointless.“

- a prolific bass chatter 

 

I stopped using a comp, both at home and with the band after quite a short spell with one.  Never needed one, but got caught up in the Comp discussions and, well we all know where that leads to. 

Saying that, if you go from say, pick playing to slap, a comp will make a huge difference that the audience will appreciate, even if they don’t know why. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by dave_bass5

[ped]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I want to avoid spending too much time on stuff that is going to have little or no impact on my audiences...

This is worth highlighting separately because it basically sums up exactly the opposite of what I do with my life 😂

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, ped said:

Still tempted with a B14 if it’s really less noisy. Guess the only way to know is to try one! 

Does it have that ‘ensemble’ effect from the B1on?

Are you using the ZNR (Zoom Noise Reduction) effect on your B1on patches?

I find that adding it as 'standard' eliminates background 'standstill' noise on the noisier B1-4 patches e.g. the drive effects in particular.

Not sure about your Q - but full available effects list attached.

2 minutes ago, ped said:

This is worth highlighting separately because it basically sums up exactly the opposite of what I do with my life 😂

But that then leaves you plenty of time to be playing wing basses, doesn't it? And the audience probably does think that is a keyboard bass 😀

Zoom B1(X)-4 effects.pdf

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Saying that, if you go from say, pick playing to slap, a comp will make a huge difference that the audience will appreciate, even if they don’t know why. 

Ok I just need to get competent on using a pick and learning how to slap then and I'll be able to justify getting that swanky CompIQ Stella 😀

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Ok I just need to get competent on using a pick and learning how to slap then and I'll be able to justify getting that swanky CompIQ Stella 😀

But neither are real bass playing 🙂

 

[ped]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Are you using the ZNR (Zoom Noise Reduction) effect on your B1on patches?

I find that adding it as 'standard' eliminates background 'standstill' noise on the noisier B1-4 patches e.g. the drive effects in particular.

Not sure about your Q - but full available effects list attached.

But that then leaves you plenty of time to be playing wing basses, doesn't it? And the audience probably does think that is a keyboard bass 😀

Zoom B1(X)-4 effects.pdf 640.48 kB · 1 download

Thanks for the FX list. I don’t get much/any noise when not playing so haven’t used the ZNR it’s more the digital noise under the notes. I’ll just have to try one. 

[Owen]

34 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

So something like the Spetracomp compressor into a preamp with DI of some kind would on paper do me, I tried @owen's API preamp he used to have and on paper that worked but I wasn't loving the tone (Esp when compared to his Hellborg preamp 💗)  ... but then some overdrive is useful sometimes...

Smells like a Spectradrive to me!

[krispn]

When will this be getting it’s first gig under its belt @Al Krow?

Sounds like you’re really getting your money’s worth outta this one😀

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

When will this be getting it’s first gig under its belt @Al Krow?

Sounds like you’re really getting your money’s worth outta this one😀

Well it's been to two rehearsals already and next rehearsal outing tonight. First gig with it  likely to be this Saturday.

Completely agree about the "size 11 foot" thing Dave mentioned though (although I'm a paltry size 9). It was all too easy to step backwards onto it and find I'd engaged an unintended effect!!

Not that the rest of the band noticed... 😄 

Oh yes, and in terms of the earlier active / passive discussion it does seem to transform my passive bass into an active one as far as the amp inputs are concerned. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Al Krow

[krispn]

What are you finding most useful from the rehearsal sessions with it?  The hpf, comps and eq primarily? 

[Al Krow]

hpf and comp are currently 'standard' on all my patches including what I refer to as 'clean' which I have at the start of each bank of 10 patches for easy access. So definitely 'yes' to those. EQ mostly d/w elsewhere. 

Specific effects so far: drive, 'Jaco' (= fretless emulator) and filter (all using modified stock patches). 

Need to work up a few more e.g. delay, flange and octave up and down - probably also in combination with dirt. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Al Krow

[krispn]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

.

Oh yes, and in terms of the earlier active / passive discussion it does seem to transform my passive bass into an active one as far as the amp inputs are concerned. 

Explain? If you’re not adding eq do you mean you haven’t balanced the volumes to unity between on and off I.e. engaging the pedal causes a volume jump or...?

[Al Krow]

16 minutes ago, krispn said:

Explain? If you’re not adding eq do you mean you haven’t balanced the volumes to unity between on and off I.e. engaging the pedal causes a volume jump or...?

Yeah, it may simply be down to the individual vol settings on different patches and needing to adjust so that I don't get a volume spike and / or simply setting the master volume on the pedal appropriately. Bit of fine tuning still to do... 

[krispn]

Have you found the zoom to be better at the filter stuff? I know that was a criticism you had of the Stomp. 

[Earbrass]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Need to work up a few more e.g. delay, flange and octave up and down - probably also in combination with dirt. 

I just acquired the  G1 Four (for use with electric & acoustic nyckelharpa), and I've found the octave effect to be poor - though I understand this may vary from instrument to instrument. Certainly isn't going to replace my Sub'N'Up.

[dannybuoy]

The octave down effect which simulates an analog octaver is Very Good Indeed. The octave up is not so great though. Neither is the one on the Helix (for now, they claim to have hired some polyphonic pitch shifting wizards a while back)!

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Earbrass said:

I just acquired the  G1 Four (for use with electric & acoustic nyckelharpa), and I've found the octave effect to be poor - though I understand this may vary from instrument to instrument. Certainly isn't going to replace my Sub'N'Up.

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

The octave down effect which simulates an analog octaver is Very Good Indeed. The octave up is not so great though. Neither is the one on the Helix (for now, they claim to have hired some polyphonic pitch shifting wizards a while back)!

I'm guessing the difference in experience here is going to be G1-4 vs B3n / B1-4 with the latter two being specifically geared to the bass frequency range, whereas the G1 is aimed at guitarists?

[dave_bass5]

Is anyone using either of the pitch shifters in the B1-Four?

Being able to go up or down a tone (no more) is the main reason i use my B1 four over my Spectradrive, but when i use them i get a chorus type of ‘wobble’ to the notes. I have balance at 100% so its just the effected tone, but its very off putting. Maybe I’m doing something wrong but i dont get this with the B1-ON.