UPS - Unbelievably Poor Service. Avoid this courier...

[BigRedX]

17 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

On reflection, I wonder whether our (my company's) positive experience of using UPS is due to us using company accounts, held by our suppliers, rather than booking them like 'regular punters'. What I mean is, our suppliers always deal with the same people for bookings, collections, etc. Whereas when I use UPS for private mail, it's often a different pick-up driver each time (albeit still without problems).

Anyway. Just thought I'd throw that out there and hope @Dood finds a happy ending to all this.

I think it is very much down to your local UPS depot. I've been using them for larger parcels for about 10 years now and have sent several 100 packages during that time. I get to deal with the same driver every time (except when he is on holiday) and I have only once had a problem (caused by the depot at the delivery end of the chain) which was promptly sorted and compensated without fuss in full.

IME UPS are no better or worse than any other courier service - with the exception of Yodel and Hermes who are uniformly terrible and I can't believe how they mange to stay in business, are they being propped up by profits from another company? Delivery services are only as good as the weakest link in the chain.

[BigRedX]

Dood, as others have said social media is the way to go. Even if you are not a Twitter or Facebook user, now is the time to sign up and kick up a fuss, because that's what companies will take notice of. Like them on Facebook, and them hijack one of their posts, ideally one where they boast about how good they are that can be tangentially linked to your problem.Hashtag them on Twitter and mention how poor the quality of service is.

I'm sure it is doing your "soul" some good coming on here, venting about the problem and getting lots of sympathetic replies, but 3+ pages on it doesn't appear as though you have managed to sort out the problem.

Also who was actually responsible for booking the courier service? Yourself or the Shop? If it was the shop then surely it is also in their interests to be making a fuss? Why aren't they?

[Dood]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Dood, as others have said social media is the way to go. Even if you are not a Twitter or Facebook user, now is the time to sign up and kick up a fuss, because that's what companies will take notice of. Like them on Facebook, and them hijack one of their posts, ideally one where they boast about how good they are that can be tangentially linked to your problem.Hashtag them on Twitter and mention how poor the quality of service is.

I'm sure it is doing your "soul" some good coming on here, venting about the problem and getting lots of sympathetic replies, but 3+ pages on it doesn't appear as though you have managed to sort out the problem.

Also who was actually responsible for booking the courier service? Yourself or the Shop? If it was the shop then surely it is also in their interests to be making a fuss? Why aren't they?

I caved in and opened a Twitter account last night lol.

Yeah, highlighting my plight on Basschat I hope has raised awareness, but I think you are right. We're a closed community and at best I am merely warning our fellow bassists of a really rubbish situation that this particular company seem incapable of fixing in a timely manner. Social Media it would appear to be a better approach to reach a wider audience as well as UPS maybe taking note - even in passing as it appears they have done regarding lost property.

It was a shop and I am pleased to say that they have been chasing UPS on a daily basis. They have actually had to put in a good fight for the customer services folk to actually escalate and be bold enough to give up the names and contact details of senior management. Needless to say, they have had enough of UPS and will be changing to another courier as soon as they can. Hardly surprising really. As a shop, the courier they choose is part of their sales service. If the courier can't be trusted then the shop's reputation will be affected. Now considering the shop has been absolutely brilliant and bent over backwards for me without even batting an eyelid, I really don't want them to be seen in a bad light. With regard to UPS, as far as I understand it, they haven't even got close to approaching a "please don't leave, is there anything we can do to improve relations?" But don't quote me on that as I haven't heard from UPS recently either lol lol lol ...

 

[bassjim]

When using a courier for any items I value I pay the extra going rate  for a pre-10 delivery (for within the UK )

Although its not guaranteed its possibly a safer bet as the parcel is more likely to be in constant transit. No hanging around all night at a depo waiting for whom ever turn it is to have the brain that day, or the next day,  to make sure its on the right van.

I sent a bass out to a fellow basschatter yesterday. It was picked up at 4pm and it arrived safe and sound this morning at 9:30am. My courier also issues a tracking number you can use on line,  you give them mobile number and they  text a progress report  phone along with an hourly time slot stating when its going to be delivered.  Courier is called DPD Local. Bass traveled from the south coast to the midlands.

Not that it helps the OP right now but I would suggest asking any shop or other wise if you could pay that extra bit on top for a next day pre 10 delivery as its may just get that extra bit of attention. Hopefully. 

[Dood]

NEWS JUST IN!!!!

UPS have been in touch regarding the 'possible match' parcel I mentioned in the OP.. It had, over the last day or so, been sent to their Lost And Found depot. (Apparently it's too difficult to identify in situ..)

Yes, it has taken over two days to identify and! ... It's not a Bass Guitar in a Bass Guitar Case.. It's not a BIG box with a clear address on it to me. They did however manage to identify it was a guitar, so I will give them that. 😳

I understand the notification mail offered no sympathy or any sort of 'customer service' that we might hope for when a company is sorry for solely messing up on a grand scale. Nup. Nadda. Nothing.

So, too many days after they lost the parcel (It was lost just after collection on Tuesday 28th, reported not arrived by me Wednesday 29th) UPS still have no clue how a huge box can go missing. I think it's time for the police to get involved; even the shop's UPS sales manager thinks it is 'odd'.

Feeling really rubbish. 

 

 

EDIT: Interestingly, following the advice above, I decided I would start a Tweet to UPS regarding this mess. I went to the UPS help page on Twitter and literally the whole page is inundated, full of customers with problems. I have no idea how my post will even get seen. Well, there you go. tells the whole story really, doesn't it?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Dood
add info'.

[Beedster]

35 minutes ago, Dood said:

UPS still have no clue how a huge box can go missing.

Oh come on, never ever underestimate a courier. Parcel Monkey lost a Mesa 1516EV of mine a few years ago. Anyone who has ever seen or lifted one of these will recognise the challenge even the most inept of couriers would face in actually losing one; it's not unlike losing a mountain or similar large geographical feature (not least because it takes about four people to get it in and out of a van). But they still lost it. Anyway, long story short, it turned up in the back of a courier van in Suffolk. I suspect the driver didn't even notice it was there, it was such a big package that it became a form of horizon, probably requiring a county as flat as Suffolk to render it visible to the human eye. And I cannot begin to describe the dust and 'stuff' that was on it and in it when it arrived, I was given the strong sense that the van had been moving farm animals and manure as well as expensive Californian music equipment.

But I got it back. There's still hope Dood 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Beedster

[MrCrane]

7 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 it was such a big package that it became a form of horizon, probably requiring a county as flat as Suffolk to render it visible to the human eye

But I got it back. There's still hope Dood 

Probably bent light around itself. 🙂

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, MrCrane said:

Probably bent light around itself. 🙂

Funny you should say that. On the basis of a large number of orbiting objects, it appeared to have developed its own gravitational field when the guy finally delivered it but it transpired that the planets in question were actually large flies. 

[Dood]

52 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Oh come on, never ever underestimate a courier. Parcel Monkey lost a Mesa 1516EV of mine a few years ago. Anyone who has ever seen or lifted one of these will recognise the challenge even the most inept of couriers would face in actually losing one; it's not unlike losing a mountain or similar large geographical feature (not least because it takes about four people to get it in and out of a van). But they still lost it. Anyway, long story short, it turned up in the back of a courier van in Suffolk. I suspect the driver didn't even notice it was there, it was such a big package that it became a form of horizon, probably requiring a county as flat as Suffolk to render it visible to the human eye. And I cannot begin to describe the dust and 'stuff' that was on it and in it when it arrived, I was given the strong sense that the van had been moving farm animals and manure as well as expensive Californian music equipment.

But I got it back. There's still hope Dood 

Thank you, I was in much need of a belly laugh and this did just the job! Thank you, thank you.

[Burns-bass]

On 06/09/2018 at 22:04, T-Bay said:

It’s partly down to the zero hour/ minimum wage culture. If people feel valued and feel that the company they work for is looking after them they will work in away to promote that company and avoid any chance of them losing their jobs. Whilst there are rogue individuals that go against this, it generally works well. Sadly the ‘dont care’ attitude is far too common in both employers and employees in the modern world.

This is true, but the fault lies with us. We search for the lowest prices, knowing full well what that means, and then are upset when things sometimes go wrong. We’re conplicit in this situation by demanding ever lower prices. Im not preaching, I’m the same.

(I know this isn’t the case for the OP so please don’t take it as a criticism. I hope your bass turns up!)

My dad used to work in logistics and we once ran a reasonably successful removals business. The margins are so tight in this line of work and competition so high, wages are depressed across the board and it’s all about volume. This results in mistakes. 

In terms of numbers however, statistically I reckon the failure rate is probably consistent, but the volume of parcels we receive now is much higher.

We always advised owners of high value goods (expensive furniture, hifi equipment etc) to transport it themselves as it’s the only way to guarantee your items get to their destination in one piece.

I do the same with basses, I mean, what courier could I entrust a near mint 64 jazz with?

And the insurance policies are worthless too. They’re so fulL of caveats it’s almost impossible to claim. The courier companies naturally use secondary providers, which means they’re reluctant to claim too. Insurance for our removals company was in the thousands and we never once claimed on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hellzero]

Totally agree with you, except about insurance, but I guess it depends on where you are located. As I already wrote, I always take the extra insurance and when I need to insurance up to 4300 Euros, I use the post of Luxembourg and never had any issue when it comes to make it work : ask @binky_bass as he got a full refund when my very rare Aries arrived to him in pieces (in my bomb proof package, but not plane height proof sadly), even if ParfelForce who was the culprit was in a total deny process. Read the thread about it or my feedback. So insurances do work, but you have to choose the right one, and that's the biggest part of the problem.

So now back to @Dood : do you have any news ?

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

Totally agree with you, except about insurance, but I guess it depends on where you are located. As I already wrote, I always take the extra insurance and when I need to insurance up to 4300 Euros, I use the post of Luxembourg and never had any issue when it comes to make it work : ask @binky_bass as he got a full refund when my very rare Aries arrived to him in pieces (in my bomb proof package, but not plane height proof sadly), even if ParfelForce who was the culprit was in a total deny process. Read the thread about it or my feedback. So insurances do work, but you have to choose the right one, and that's the biggest part of the problem.

So now back to @Dood : do you have any news ?

That’s a rare occurrence of it working, and great that it did!

[fleabag]

19 hours ago, Dood said:

 

Interestingly, following the advice above, I decided I would start a Tweet to UPS regarding this mess. I went to the UPS help page on Twitter and literally the whole page is inundated, full of customers with problems.

Thing is Dan, that is what sounds about right. People won't be posting  on their page " Thanks for delivering my parcel today "

It's only going to be people with grievances, so you'll get to hear only those tweets of disgruntled customers.   Try  this with My Hermes - they dont even have a customer service line anymore - presumably due to having even more disgruntled customers than any other courier - and the only way to get hold of them for a problem is via Facebook. Yes, i'm not kidding.  I've been there. It was the last time i used their service.

Edited September 8, 2018 by fleabag

[Hellzero]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

That’s a rare occurrence of it working, and great that it did!

It also happened with the same company for a stolen in the van two parts rare hi-fi amplifier. So it's not a rare occurence : Le Foyer is a real good insurance company caring for their customers, that's as simple as that. And I only had this two issues in a bit more than 30 years of buying and selling lots and loads of items (more than 2000 items over the years).

[binky_bass]

@Dood 

[email protected] - CEO UPS Global

[email protected] - CEO UPS UK

Go striaght to the CEO, this is what I had to do to make Parcel Force take the situation Hellzero mentioned seriously. 

Russ.

[spacecowboy]

Reading all of these horror stories I'll take a moment to be thankful that I haven't had any bad experiences yet... And I've sent and received a lot of basses over the years. Sorry to hear your plight! Hope it's resolved quickly Dood.

[Dood]

11 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Totally agree with you, except about insurance, but I guess it depends on where you are located. As I already wrote, I always take the extra insurance and when I need to insurance up to 4300 Euros, I use the post of Luxembourg and never had any issue when it comes to make it work : ask @binky_bass as he got a full refund when my very rare Aries arrived to him in pieces (in my bomb proof package, but not plane height proof sadly), even if ParfelForce who was the culprit was in a total deny process. Read the thread about it or my feedback. So insurances do work, but you have to choose the right one, and that's the biggest part of the problem.

So now back to @Dood : do you have any news ?

See ‘News Just In’ above. Not good at the moment and nothing more until Monday. 

Thank you @binky_bass, that’s great. I think the shop will be in touch with Mark Vale and probably the police too. Everything is just a bit fishy now following communications from UPS. It doesn’t bode well for the outcome we’d expect.

Undelivered? Probably Stolen.

[fleabag]

8 minutes ago, Dood said:

@binky_bass

will be in touch with Mark Vale and probably the police too. Everything is just a bit fishy now following communications from UPS. It doesn’t bode well for the outcome we’d expect.

Undelivered? Probably Stolen.

I've been there

I ordered £72 kitchen tiles .  They never turned up.  Apparently i found out that they delivered them, so they said, to the Chinese Takeaway next door but one.  BS.

I checked with the manager, it was tagged as delivered at 7pm and they're open at this time, so someone would have signed for it.  They didn't, and apparently you dont have to have a signature ( talking about Ebay / Paypal here ) as long as tracking can prove it was delivered.  Yes, it was the couriers own tracking that stated it was delivered !!!  But not to me.

The police had a go , eventually , but they either didnt make much effort, or they didnt come up with anything.   MH stopped responding after a while on their  FB page .

I eventually got some money back from PP ( after 6 weeks of dealing and various prrof of non delivery )  but only gave half of whsat i paid, and i was so peed off i called my bank and got the rest back. No one knows where the tiles went.

Well i know.  The courier stole them, because there's no other option left

[Hellzero]

8 hours ago, binky_bass said:

@Dood 

[email protected] - CEO UPS Global

[email protected] - CEO UPS UK

Go striaght to the CEO, this is what I had to do to make Parcel Force take the situation Hellzero mentioned seriously. 

Russ.

Indeed, but Parcel Force CEO refused to pay more than the "legal" £100, so as the seller, I managed to get a full refund by my courier and its insurance company. 

[Dood]

14 hours ago, fleabag said:

[snip]

Well i know.  The courier stole them, because there's no other option left

Well yes, according to several members of support staff who say that 'ground staff' have been doing searching over the last week and a half; It does sort of point to the possibility that all of the honest options have been exhausted?

I really hope for the shop's sake they will pay out the entire value of the instrument. I wouldn't expect they will offer any compensation for the hassle both the shop staff and I have had to endure. 

My OP still stands. Avoid UPS at all costs.

[PatrickJ]

After reading the many gripes against courier companies and watching those truely awful videos I'm left wondering if it is possible to insure a delivery through a 3rd party organisation or do you have to use the courier's insurance?

Short of ordering hand made items and picking them up directly from the luthier / engineer it seems like a game of roulette having it sent with any of current crop of couriers!

Edited September 9, 2018 by PJ-Bassist

[Dood]

6 minutes ago, PJ-Bassist said:

After reading the many gripes against courier companies and watching those truely awful videos I'm left wondering if it is possible to insure a delivery through a 3rd party organisation or do you have to use the courier's insurance?

Short of ordering hand made items and picking them up directly from the luthier / engineer it seems like a game of roulette having it sent with any of current crop of couriers!

Good question! I suspect a third party insurer wouldn't touch couriers with a bargepole if they had any sense.

[AndyTravis]

I do think about running an elite courier agency just for the UK, for Basschat sales only.

I’d quit my day job, switch the Volvo to a transit connect...

it’d be dearer but your gear would arrive in one piece.

Man and Van - bass guitar department.

[Hellzero]

19 minutes ago, PJ-Bassist said:

After reading the many gripes against courier companies and watching those truely awful videos I'm left wondering if it is possible to insure a delivery through a 3rd party organisation or do you have to use the courier's insurance?

Short of ordering hand made items and picking them up directly from the luthier / engineer it seems like a game of roulette having it sent with any of current crop of couriers!

Le Foyer that the post of Luxembourg is using is a third party insurance company, so problems (when there are some) are solved very quickly.

[T-Bay]

6 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

I do think about running an elite courier agency just for the UK, for Basschat sales only.

I’d quit my day job, switch the Volvo to a transit connect...

it’d be dearer but your gear would arrive in one piece.

Man and Van - bass guitar department.

I used to work for Pony Express in the summers when I was a student, that was essentially what they did. You paid to have one person pick up your item and take it straight to someone else. I was on a motorbike so did smaller items (although you would be amazed what people would claim would fit on a bike to try and keep the cost down). I carried some very expensive things and on one occasion about two grand in cash and a passport to Heathrow for a guy who had left them at home.