Music shop fails

[Horrorhiker]

9 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

You should either treat or pay people well, preferably both. If someone does neither, I try not to go there. 

[FDC484950]

25 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

My perspective comes from working as a care worker to supplement my rock star income. We all get paid nearly minimum wage, but any cutting of slack, undercutting or cutting corners can basically result in the company closing, everyone getting in the news, me going to prison and people I'm caring for getting abused. Because of this, the 'cut them slack as they don't earn much' argument doesn't hold much water for me, and I can't really sympathise much with a similarly paid shop worker unless they have daily contact with other peoples bodily fluids...

Saying that, it is true that a lot of people don't have manners and respect, but if I was an employer I'd try make sure I kept the ones that do. My local shop is quite good actually and their staff turnover is very low for a music shop I suspect. This is from smart employing I'd assume.   

I think you're right by saying its a balancing act, pleasing people though. There are definitely some people that expect a bit of 'arris kissing. Some of it is having the skill of gauging that when you meet someone, which is easier said than done. I must say, I feel very uncomfortable when being given the smarm, and have said before 'please talk to me like a normal human or I'll have to go'. 

I'm not sure about average service keeping a company going. Certainly online, the ones that go beyond the basics certainly seem to do better. With guitar shops, in anything other than big cities, there is only one. I suspect if there were two or three, just average service would quickly start to not cut the mustard. 

 

That’s not quite what I’m saying. The care industry, like many others, is low paid, but the responsibility is for the well-being of people, especially vulnerable people and/or those who can’t look after themselves. This is a labour of love, and whilst very important and noble, isn’t quite the same as working in a music shop. There’s not really much commitment in the music industry and a music shop doesn’t have pay, rewarding work or a supportive working environment - basically it’s not a career but a stopgap for most. I’ve worked in music shops, and whilst I cannot compare it to working with vulnerable people (although I would challenge you to find a role now, paying what I earned in my first music shop job - well below £10Kpa for a full time role including working every Saturday, 45 hours per week!), it was pretty soul-destroying. The sheer amount of timewasters and chancers, none of whom were ever going to buy anything substantial, wears you down over time. It’s also not that much of a surprise that the industry attracts a lot of people with some quite significant personality problems! I had people to whom I had been very pleasant, accommodating and understanding shout at me down the phone, a number of attempted thefts from the shop and a significant number of people with a sizeable chip in their shoulder - hence my comment about flouncing out in disgust when shop staff don’t fall at your knees! Of course, we should not tolerate poor staff or service in any environment - but customers can be hell, too. 

Im also a biker, and if you think service is poor in a music shop, try your average motorbike dealer...

[Geek99]

44 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

Yeah, there was also Girlschool who should have done better really. Sorry to continue the off topic. ha ha

they all looked like travel agents **

 

** in leather of course, but still like travel agents

[Horrorhiker]

6 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

That’s not quite what I’m saying. The care industry, like many others, is low paid, but the responsibility is for the well-being of people, especially vulnerable people and/or those who can’t look after themselves. This is a labour of love, and whilst very important and noble, isn’t quite the same as working in a music shop. There’s not really much commitment in the music industry and a music shop doesn’t have pay, rewarding work or a supportive working environment - basically it’s not a career but a stopgap for most. I’ve worked in music shops, and whilst I cannot compare it to working with vulnerable people (although I would challenge you to find a role now, paying what I earned in my first music shop job - well below £10Kpa for a full time role including working every Saturday, 45 hours per week!), it was pretty soul-destroying. The sheer amount of timewasters and chancers, none of whom were ever going to buy anything substantial, wears you down over time. It’s also not that much of a surprise that the industry attracts a lot of people with some quite significant personality problems! I had people to whom I had been very pleasant, accommodating and understanding shout at me down the phone, a number of attempted thefts from the shop and a significant number of people with a sizeable chip in their shoulder - hence my comment about flouncing out in disgust when shop staff don’t fall at your knees! Of course, we should not tolerate poor staff or service in any environment - but customers can be hell, too. 

Im also a biker, and if you think service is poor in a music shop, try your average motorbike dealer...

Yes I get what you're saying. My first job was in Tescos. Tescos at Christmas really shows you what humanity is really like. I suppose I try and take the same attitude I have at work everywhere but not everyone is the same. I do argue that the care industry is in a bit of a state because of the low pay and bad conditions not attracting the right people so I guess I'm contradicting myself there and being a bit idealistic, but when I hear people moaning about having poor pay and a bad job, I often have to bite my tongue so i don't blurt out a load of poo related horror stories. 'still think your job is bad'? ha ha. 

Ideally, everyone would treat people with respect but I fully appreciate that this doesn't happen very often these days. Without wanting to get too political, the buy now, pay later, have whatever you want without working for it, disposable product entitlement culture has led us to where we are in my opinion. And I've been as guilty as anyone else on that score in the past, though am trying to resist it now as much as possible. Bit like a reformed smoker ha ha.

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

I have had that in so many places. I dress ordinarily, but have had furniture shop staff sit around chatting when I'm in there needing a whole two bed flats worth of furniture (Furniture Village, Southampton) and then they jump on the white haired man in slacks who pulls up in his Volvo saloon. 

My favourite on cars is "you have to confirm you're going to buy it, then we talk about if we can do anything on the price". I have had that in numerous garages. Imagine a guitar shop doing that!! Confirm you're definitely going to buy that vintage bass at a massive price and I'll then see if I can bring it closer to market value and throw in the case". How can you confirm you'll complete a deal before you know what the deal is?!?!

Oh, I'm a professional buyer. Rule number 1, always be prepared to walk away. Always.

 

I had a well-off girlfriend a while ago... I went with her to try some Alfa Romeo car at the local Alfa dealer. Neither of us looked like we had any money, because that's just how we dress... There were a few slightly condescending remarks from the sales guy, until she said "nah, I'd just do a bank transfer for the full amount, no need for finance"... I wish they were a bit more professional. You can't really judge by appearances. That guy that shows up with a big Rolex and impeccably dressed may just be maxing up his credit cards...

Back in Spain with another girlfriend, we went to a restaurant that I knew to be very good especially for steaks. Waiters dressed like ship captains etc put me off a little, but the place was very good... so I put up with it. Again, condescending attitude... until I order wine and I go for what I knew to be a nice bottle of wine (my father loves his wines so I have tried a wide range and know a little about what I like), and then the guy's attitude changed. Why do you have to wait until I somehow "prove" my worth to you? Snob attitudes really annoy me... 

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

YOU do, but people in general don’t nowadays do they? Good manners aren’t all that common. I agree that we shouldn’t accept poor service, but then some of the examples on this thread are of people expecting, almost demanding good service just because they’re spending money. And that service should be, not too pushy, but don’t ignore me too much either. I must confess to rarely, if ever, experiencing such personally-tailored service. Well-trained, motivated and well-chosen sales staff can make a retail business more successful, but average service in most industries doesn’t stop the money coming in - until you’re undercut by online retailers and you go bust because there’s nothing to differentiate you - see Malplin, Toys R Us, Comet, Woolworth etc etc. It’s a vicious circle.

 

Nah. Just don't treat me like I'm a thief (I don't get that these days but I got it a lot in my 20s) or a moron without a clue (if I'm asking for something specific, don't give me BS, it's ok to say that you are not entirely familiar with what I'm asking) or like I'm a huge inconvenience interrupting your interesting chat with other shop assistants or your regular status updates in facebook. It's very simple.

[Horrorhiker]

1 minute ago, mcnach said:

 

I had a well-off girlfriend a while ago... I went with her to try some Alfa Romeo car at the local Alfa dealer. Neither of us looked like we had any money, because that's just how we dress... There were a few slightly condescending remarks from the sales guy, until she said "nah, I'd just do a bank transfer for the full amount, no need for finance"... I wish they were a bit more professional. You can't really judge by appearances. That guy that shows up with a big Rolex and impeccably dressed may just be maxing up his credit cards...

Back in Spain with another girlfriend, we went to a restaurant that I knew to be very good especially for steaks. Waiters dressed like ship captains etc put me off a little, but the place was very good... so I put up with it. Again, condescending attitude... until I order wine and I go for what I knew to be a nice bottle of wine (my father loves his wines so I have tried a wide range and know a little about what I like), and then the guy's attitude changed. Why do you have to wait until I somehow "prove" my worth to you? Snob attitudes really annoy me... 

Of the few local millionaires I've met, most of them looked really scruffy actually. In their free time at least. If you've got it I suppose you don't feel the need to show it, or something. 

It is annoying. The satisfaction of changing peoples opinions of you right quick is quite mouth watering though. 

And ships captain outfits are only ever ok if you're talking the Starship Enterprise in my book. 

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, Geek99 said:

I had one idiot from hermes who walked up the side of my house, into the patio, through the patio and opened the garden shed and left it in there. I said to Hermes this is what it must actually feel like to be burgled. 

 

At least he didn't leave the parcel at the front door in full view of anyone passing by... which they do too.

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I think it was just a matter of ignorance or mental laziness. Until a few years ago, there were a lot more (musically clueless) mothers of male bassists than there were female bass players, especially middle-aged ones, and sweeping generalisations in shops and society at large were rife.

even so, even a moments thought would have brought out "Can I help with anything" rather "its for your son, is it ?" money is money, whoever its being spent on. 

[Geek99]

Just now, mcnach said:

 

At least he didn't leave the parcel at the front door in full view of anyone passing by... which they do too.

he was the 100 % reason why we put gates on both sides of the house. 

[FinnDave]

On 14/02/2018 at 15:23, EBS_freak said:

There used to be a couple of guys working in PMT in Oxford in a band called Twin Jet Superstar - I remember loving the guitarist's playing. Just been googling and it seems that the fella is called Dave Smart. Seems like he's moved on to pastures new and now has a repair business and got something to do with Oxford Guitar Gallery. There you go. The thread has rekindled some blast from past memories for me!

There was a whole thread about Dave on here recently. I take all my basses to hime for any work that needs doing. Taking my new Jazz over for a fettle in a week or so. Top bloke is Dave.

[discreet]

1 hour ago, T-Bay said:

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

Unregulated capitalism demands dirt and peanuts, unfortunately. Supposedly we're a service economy, but this country's inherent 'f*ck you' attitude doesn't really sit too well with it...

[Horrorhiker]

Just now, Geek99 said:

even so, even a moments thought would have brought out "Can I help with anything" rather "its for your son, is it ?" money is money, whoever its being spent on. 

Reminds me of a thing that happened the other day. 

My Dad was in hospital and the guy next door got wheeled back from an operation where a man was waiting for him. Deadly quiet in the ward with several visitors sitting around.

The recovery nurse says to the guy "It went well..I take it you're Dad"

"No. I'm partner". 

Everyone in the ward made a face like they just stepped on Lego, and the nurse goes bright red and continued to dig a massive hole for herself for ages. 

As you say, a moments thought would have gone a long way here. 

[Geek99]

1 minute ago, Horrorhiker said:

Reminds me of a thing that happened the other day. 

My Dad was in hospital and the guy next door got wheeled back from an operation where a man was waiting for him. Deadly quiet in the ward with several visitors sitting around.

The recovery nurse says to the guy "It went well..I take it you're Dad"

"No. I'm partner". 

Everyone in the ward made a face like they just stepped on Lego, and the nurse goes bright red and continued to dig a massive hole for herself for ages. 

As you say, a moments thought would have gone a long way here. 

as a fellow suffolk-ite, I can imagine

[discreet]

People now expected to work free shifts in the hope of getting a job:

http://bit.ly/2Fb7ih9

[EBS_freak]

27 minutes ago, discreet said:

People now expected to work free shifts in the hope of getting a job:

http://bit.ly/2Fb7ih9

I'm sure they will get lots of further work due to the "exposure".

[mcnach]

42 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

Of the few local millionaires I've met, most of them looked really scruffy actually. In their free time at least. If you've got it I suppose you don't feel the need to show it, or something. 

It is annoying. The satisfaction of changing peoples opinions of you right quick is quite mouth watering though. 

And ships captain outfits are only ever ok if you're talking the Starship Enterprise in my book. 

 

It's satisfying only for a minute, then I just want to say "now get lost, I think I'm going to have a BigMac instead next door" (not really, I really really like to eat well... but it's tempting)

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Horrorhiker said:

The recovery nurse says to the guy "It went well..I take it you're Dad"

"No. I'm partner". 

Everyone in the ward made a face like they just stepped on Lego, and the nurse goes bright red and continued to dig a massive hole for herself for ages. 

Why do people do that? All she needed to say was "Sorry, my mistake. Anyway, as I said, it went well..." and just carry on as normal. It's the 21st century FGS, surely we should be well past the point where someone's sexuality is the cause for Lego-face or hole-digging?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Rich

[Kevsy71]

I awoke from surgery once in a darkened room, to a deep voice saying "it didn't work". They actually meant the surgery hadn't gone ahead due to a technical fault, but my first thought was "I'm dead, and this is heaven".

My second was , "Now, where do they keep the original '57 Ps...?"

[Horrorhiker]

48 minutes ago, Rich said:

Why do people do that? All she needed to say was "Sorry, my mistake. Anyway, as I said, it went well..." and just carry on as normal. It's the 21st century FGS, surely we should be well past the point where someone's sexuality is the cause for Lego-face or hole-digging?

I know. The guy said it happens all the time after the nurse went. He was having a laugh about it. 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Kevsy71]

6 hours ago, Horrorhiker said:

Reminds me of a thing that happened the other day. 

My Dad was in hospital and the guy next door got wheeled back from an operation where a man was waiting for him. Deadly quiet in the ward with several visitors sitting around.

The recovery nurse says to the guy "It went well..I take it you're Dad"

"No. I'm partner". 

Everyone in the ward made a face like they just stepped on Lego, and the nurse goes bright red and continued to dig a massive hole for herself for ages. 

As you say, a moments thought would have gone a long way here. 

Surely the best response would have been "Howdy, partner!" 

[Horrorhiker]

12 minutes ago, Kevsy71 said:

Surely the best response would have been "Howdy, partner!" 

ha ha, I wish. Not out of the realms of possibility either. Quite a thriving country and western scene 'round these parts. 

[Muzz]

OK, some names and details have been omitted to protect the guilty and not-so-guilty, but a good pal of mine used to run a city centre music shop that was part of a semi-chain, and when the Big Boss came round every few weeks, he was known as The Sales Prevention Officer, thanks to his effortless display of prejudice and condescension towards customers who didn't fit his instant image of Worthwhile Customer. The best/worst one was when a youngish lad came in to try a very very nice Gibson off the top shelf. He'd come in his lunchtime from the BBC over the road where he was filming, and my pal recognised him and made him comfortable, and left him to it. Enter the SPO who took the guitar off him and basically shooed him out of the place. Several grand in sales walked out the door, and never came back. My pal used to break sets of strings to sell singles to the hordes of students who came in, and his rationale was "They'll be back with more money next time."  The shop went bust in the end, for unrelated reasons: as Marti Di Bergi said of The Electric Banana "Don't bother looking for it, it isn't there any more"... 

Having said that, my last purchase from PMT Online wasn't a success: I'd ordered a Helix and paid (on the 0% hoohah) with the 48 hour delivery, as we had a big gig coming up and it would have been ideal. Three days later I phoned up to be told 'We can't deliver to an address different from the payment address'. When I pointed out that the website let people do just that, they were unconcerned.  Similarly, it might have been nice to have been told, rather than have to phone then up to find that out. It turned up three days after that.

[AndyTravis]

17 minutes ago, Muzz said:

OK, some names and details have been omitted to protect the guilty and not-so-guilty, but a good pal of mine used to run a city centre music shop that was part of a semi-chain, and when the Big Boss came round every few weeks, he was known as The Sales Prevention Officer, thanks to his effortless display of prejudice and condescension towards customers who didn't fit his instant image of Worthwhile Customer. The best/worst one was when a youngish lad came in to try a very very nice Gibson off the top shelf. He'd come in his lunchtime from the BBC over the road where he was filming, and my pal recognised him and made him comfortable, and left him to it. Enter the SPO who took the guitar off him and basically shooed him out of the place. Several grand in sales walked out the door, and never came back. My pal used to break sets of strings to sell singles to the hordes of students who came in, and his rationale was "They'll be back with more money next time."  The shop went bust in the end, for unrelated reasons: as Marti Di Bergi said of The Electric Banana "Don't bother looking for it, it isn't there any more"... 

Having said that, my last purchase from PMT Online wasn't a success: I'd ordered a Helix and paid (on the 0% hoohah) with the 48 hour delivery, as we had a big gig coming up and it would have been ideal. Three days later I phoned up to be told 'We can't deliver to an address different from the payment address'. When I pointed out that the website let people do just that, they were unconcerned.  Similarly, it might have been nice to have been told, rather than have to phone then up to find that out. It turned up three days after that.

That shop was a beauty, shame the parents of the company did what they did and how they did it...