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Mickeyboro

Playing with Pros

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[b]Professional (prə-fĕshˈə-nəl)[/b]
adj.[list]
[*]Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: [i]lawyers, doctors, and other professional people. [/i]
[*]adj.
Conforming to the standards of a profession: [i]professional behavior. [/i]
[*]adj.
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: [i]a professional writer. [/i]
[/list]
I thought I'd remind myself what the definition of professional is these days. I mean, we accept that there are people who call themselves professional dog walkers for gawd's sake. Large numbers of them are unqualified in anything past A-level, if that.

Now to look up the definition of [i]Semi[/i]... Edited by SpondonBassed

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I'm sick of male chickens like this. Really put me off trying to form a band of any talent or great laid back attitude . I would much rather jam, then I know I can have fun, but be able to walk away. That, and most of the bands are Rock tributes. Edited by bubinga5

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[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1504963938' post='3368597']
...male chickens...
[/quote]

Nicely put.

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Definitely not in the case of some! :D I know a guy who doesn't even have a bank account!

I may be going about it the wrong way, but my self-employment has been flexible over the years- for a long while I worked both as stage crew and a musician, with some driving thrown in too. It all went into the same total sum to be taxed.

I don't really go for the whole 'pro' thing, as like acting, it can be such a transient thing. I love to play, and I'm just grateful that it's all I'm invoicing for [i]for the time being[/i]. I'm always prepared to start typing them out for some menial tasks again whenever the need arises!

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[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1505038339' post='3368980']
Definitely not in the case of some! :D I know a guy who doesn't even have a bank account!

I may be going about it the wrong way, but my self-employment has been flexible over the years- for a long while I worked both as stage crew and a musician, with some driving thrown in too. It all went into the same total sum to be taxed.

I don't really go for the whole 'pro' thing, as like acting, it can be such a transient thing. I love to play, and I'm just grateful that it's all I'm invoicing for [i]for the time being[/i]. I'm always prepared to start typing them out for some menial tasks again whenever the need arises!
[/quote]

According to HMRC a hobby is not a hobby if you are being paid to do it. So the definition of 'pro' in this context seems to hinge around the ability to be able to earn a living from your playing solely. Rather than working as a IT consultant and pocketing a few quid at the weekends from some 'amateur' playing.

I was reminded of a story from the great racing driver Mike Hawthorn who had an ongoing battle with HMRC over his racing winnings. He always described himself as a 'garage proprietor' (which he was) not a professional racing driver. HMRC strongly disagreed. But, it's all about the money. :D Edited by mentalextra

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Does pro mean your this great above average musician?

I've played with a few that claim pro status. I found them to be marginal Musicians.

Blue

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[quote name='ped' timestamp='1504716080' post='3366864']
Most of being a professional musician is your attitude.
[/quote]

True, and you don't have to actually be a pro to have that attitude.

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The two pros I play with are two of the nicest, most supportive and positive people I have the pleasure to know. In particular our guitarist who also does some really big gigs for some fairly big names is so humble and pure class even when we're playing those tough gigs in pokey venues with indifferent audiences.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1505160924' post='3369952']
Does pro mean your this great above average musician?

I've played with a few that claim pro status. I found them to be marginal Musicians.

Blue
[/quote]

I already put my opinion on that above, so I'd say 'no'!

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1505161452' post='3369958']
True, and you don't have to actually be a pro to have that attitude.
[/quote]

This is my point about the mis/use of the word. Some pros aren't very 'pro', despite being pro, some amatuers are very pro, despite not being pro- no, not that pro, the other pro!

It just eats itself in what I think is a scramble to be able to use the term as a badge of honour or to somehow imply a profound better-than-average-ness.

'Pro' can end up as the muso's sports car. 'I'll show you my pro attitude if you'll show me yours'! :D

Sometimes seems folks who don't pay the bills from playing worry about how 'pro' they are, people who do, just worry about where the next gig's coming from.

I wonder if one can be a pro bass-forum contributer? Would you need a degree in English and a custom built PC, or could it be done with everyday prose and a Chinese built laptop?!

I'm too short on sleep to know if I'm waffling, or being more facetious than I intend, but it seems to be a term which comes with so much baggage and ambiguity it might as well be dropped by musicians. It's all about music, art, and having a good time, in my opinion. We can get our pound of flesh to the money-men in whatever way works, and leave the muscle flexing to the sportsmen!

Anyway, this sure feels like waffling. Night all!

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G'night JL. I enjoyed the waffles but could you bring maple syrup with you next time please?

I think [i]pro[/i] is one of those words that gets abused by bar room orators. At the end of it all, who cares as long as there is music and no-one falls out? Edited by SpondonBassed

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As someone who spent a number of years with no means of support other than playing music, I found being 'pro' (for want of a better term) a mixed bag. You eat a lot of baked beans, worry about whether you'll be able to pay the bills and have to say "yes" to all manner of dodgy offers - being invited to play in a toilet to a bunch of animals who can't stand the sight of you, etc. Rough with the smooth and all that. It was actually a relief when I finally saw sense and went back to having a "proper job" and turned the music back into a hobby that earns me a bit of extra on occasion. Now I'm retired and have a part-time job and can do more gigs, I suppose I'm "semi-pro"...

In my experience, being "pro" means being adaptable, presentable and punctual, having equipment/instruments that work and above all, being able to get along and work with others - in other words, all the qualities that one needs in any job.

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[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1505210598' post='3370197']
A 'pro' is still a human being, complete with character traits, moods and a temper.

:)
[/quote]

And a sense of humour... Some funny things being said in this thread regarding being a 'pro'.
I mean, why does a 'pro' eat a lot of Baked Beans ?
:) Edited by lowdown

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[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1505211731' post='3370216']
And a sense of humour... Some funny things being said in this thread regarding being a 'pro'.
I mean, why does a 'pro' eat a lot of Baked Beans ?
:)
[/quote]

So that he can project like a luvvie when he lets off?

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Hardest thing is finding people you get on with.
Recently left a band because i could not get on with the drummer, he ran the band like a dictator,he would call the shots on what we played, how we played it, he would book gigs when he knew people had other plans and expect everyone to cancel their plans, he still owes me for a gig we played a couple months ago, sadly things like this are all too common.

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[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1505217050' post='3370269']
So that he can project like a luvvie when he lets off?
[/quote]

Of course, I can see that being especially useful for Tuba players (when they are required to let rip).

http://youtu.be/ZuReUTXkx84 Edited by lowdown

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[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1505218134' post='3370282']
Of course, I can see that being especially useful for Tuba players (when they are required to let rip).

[media]http://youtu.be/ZuReUTXkx84[/media]
[/quote]

Once baked beans were mentioned the topic veered in that direction slowly and inexorably. You needn't blame me.

If you were to eat baked beans then go out on the town with your sousaphone all ready for Open Mic you'd run the risk of developing a [i]pro[/i]lapsed attitude towards your band members and the public at large.

[Image witheld] Edited by SpondonBassed

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Think the post explains why he's an ex-pro.

Good musicians need to adapt to other people they play with whether they are Pros or Amatuers.

Being a pro shouldn't make any difference in the way you behave and treat others.

Best to move on and look at forming a new band without him.

Dave

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In a recent version of our Soul Band (MoFuSo-work it out!) we had the pleasure of a young keyboard player just out of Music College playing for us.

Despite him living at home and nearest to the rehearsal room to us all (5 mins), my journey was 45 mins, guess who could be relied upon to be at least 30 mins and up to 60 mins late for a 7.00 pm start?

After 3 episodes of this I asked him if he had a compelling reason for being late? His answer, 'No, I was just having my tea'......

He dropped out just after he got us to play for nowt at his Village Gala over the Summer, saying he was going to be working abroad and would be too busy for us. Facebook indicates his feet are still firmly stood on Somerset soil.......

Good keyboard player but crap timekeeper. Edited by yorks5stringer

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