Bass Direct - Charges

[pmjos]

I have just taken down 2 guitars from sale at Bass direct which haven't sold and I now have private sales for.

I was surprised to be advised that there is a £30 charge per instrument for cleaning and photography if they don't sell. Its not in their literature, not on the website and not advised verbally.

Now irrespective of legalities here - I'm not seeking advice as I'm quite clear on that.

What I want to know is , does anyone else have this experience ? If you have taken down instruments have you been charged?

[markstuk]

If they failed to tell you of these charges when you agreed they could sell your basses on commission then I don't see why you should pay them, however reasonable they might be...

[Spoombung]

Yep, if it's not indicated anywhere and you weren't told you will not have to pay.

[TheGreek]

Contracts are by agreement of both parties - you don't have to pay.

[acidbass]

Seems rather shady that this isn't intimated to customers before agreeing the 'sale' - however it does seem quite reasonable given the work that BD put in to sell the bass.

[pmjos]

I was just wondering if anyone else has been charged like this. I wouldn't mind but I bought a five grand Pentabuzz from him whilst I was there dropping the guitars off. Not exactly what you would call customer focus is it.

[Osiris]

I had a similar issue with Bass Direct a few months back. They took in my old amp to sell on my behalf (not as part exchange as I was told that I'd get more money if they were to sell it for me) to off set the cost of a new one I'd bought from them. Anyway, the amount that I'd get was agreed* and I was given a receipt for the old amp and the agreed sale price.

*I was told that they they charge 20% for this service, so obviously I was to get less than the full sale price but my share of the money was still a reasonable price.

The amp sold about a month later (I had to chase up my money from them about 3 weeks later, but that's another story) but when the money hit my account, it was £30 less than the figure that was originally agreed. I emailed to query this and was told something along the lines of "the amp sold for less than we expected which is why you have got less than the agreed price". I replied to that to say that I would have like to have been consulted about selling the amp at a lower price, but I didn't get a response.

Now, I'm not sure where I stand on this. Were they within their rights to sell my amp for a lower price? Was it still legally/technically my amp?
Does anyone here know the legalities of this situation?

Ultimately, I still ended up with more money than I was expecting from the sale of the amp which was good, but the episode still left a sour taste in my mouth.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Osiris

[leftybassman392]

Never done it with Bass Direct, but have sold several through the Bass Gallery (15% there). Granted everything that everybody has said here about the legalities and contractual details, does nobody feel any kind of obligation to the selling agency? At one point it looked as if one of my basses wouldn't sell, so I volunteered a nominal sum anyway. In the event it did eventually go after two false alarms, but I would have honoured the offer had it not sold even though it wasn't written into the deal.

Perhaps it's a generational thing, but I felt I should offer something for the work they'd done on my behalf (which was significant and almost certainly worth more than I offered). If it came to it again I still would. To be fair I have done quite a lot of business with them over the years and have built up a bit of a relationship, but even so...

Is it just me?



As to the amp, there are a number of potential issues there that you haven't made clear. When selling gear on commission sales I always specify an acceptable margin - "accept offers within x% of the listed price" kind of thing. Technically you're probably correct, but ask yourself 'would I have accepted the offer if I'd been selling it privately?'. If the answer is anywhere close to a 'yes' then with all due respect what's the beef?

Edited July 11, 2017 by leftybassman392

[Osiris]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1499770966' post='3333447']

As to the amp, there are a number of potential issues there that you haven't made clear. When selling gear on commission sales I always specify an acceptable margin - "accept offers within x% of the listed price" kind of thing. Technically you're probably correct, but ask yourself 'would I have accepted the offer if I'd been selling it privately?'. If the answer is anywhere close to a 'yes' then with all due respect what's the beef?
[/quote]

No problem, hopefully this will help to clarify your points;

We didn't discuss acceptable margins or possible offers as I was assured it would go for the price that was suggested to me, and from that I'd get my 80% cut. It was discussed as though it was a done deal.
In answer to the question 'would I have accepted the offer if I'd been selling it privately?' then the answer is yes as I still ended up with more money than I had initially expected for the old amp.

The 'beef', is more of a feeling of ambivalence. Yes, I did end up with more than I was expecting from a private sale, which is obviously good, but I was also assured that I was going to get a set price, but the actual amount received was less £30 than that. I had been given a receipt for the agreed amount so just assumed that that was what was coming to me once the amp had sold. Am I being unreasonable? Is the receipt in any way legally binding?

I wasn't asked if I was prepared to let the amp go for the lower price, and I don't know if it is their right to sell it at whatever price they want or whether they were obliged to check with me first? And that's the bit that galls me. If it is their prerogative to sell used items on other peoples behalf for whatever price they want, regardless of what has been agreed, and I'm ignorant of this fact then fair enough that is entirely my fault.

So in summary, I got more than I expected, but didn't receive the agreed figure that I assumed I was going to.
I genuinely don't know and would appreciate any clarification as to my rights, if any, in this situation.

[leftybassman392]

Well as I said you're probably right in law (and if it came to it you would appear to have a good case).

That said, given what has transpired why would you want to? I mean it's not as if the shop is trying to fleece you - in fact they're getting less off you than they might otherwise. If it is a case of sharp practice then it doesn't seem to be a very clever one.

I don't think you're being unreasonable in wanting some clarification, but IMHO it comes across as a bit of a storm in a teacup. Not wishing to labour the point, but specifying an acceptable margin up front removes the issue altogether.

Edited July 11, 2017 by leftybassman392

[Muzz]

I've sold basses through Bass Direct, and in one case there was an offer lower than the asking price. I was emailed to ask whether this was acceptable, we discussed the resultant final figure and I agreed. It was more than a £30 drop, though.

I've not encountered the £30 fee for photography, but then my basses have always sold. Perhaps they've been stung by people using them as a shop window and then selling elsewhere: I've seen basses advertised as 'also on sale at Bass Direct', and their pictures and listings are always good...

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1499776342' post='3333507']
I've sold basses through Bass Direct, and in one case there was an offer lower than the asking price. I was emailed to ask whether this was acceptable, we discussed the resultant final figure and I agreed. It was more than a £30 drop, though.

I've not encountered the £30 fee for photography, but then my basses have always sold. Perhaps they've been stung by people using them as a shop window and then selling elsewhere: I've seen basses advertised as 'also on sale at Bass Direct', and their pictures and listings are always good...
[/quote]

Yup, an email or phone call is normally how it would be done. Not explicitly stating a no-sale fee is probably a little bit naughty, but in truth is not much more than an oversight. Given the kind of tactics some sellers resort to I think it's pretty fair in all honesty. I would have no quibble with it whatsoever.

[cheddatom]

Anything's fair as long as you agree it up front!

[Osiris]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1499775941' post='3333499']
Well as I said you're probably right in law (and if it came to it you would appear to have a good case).

That said, given what has transpired why would you want to? I mean it's not as if the shop is trying to fleece you - in fact they're getting less off you than they might otherwise. If it is a case of sharp practice then it doesn't seem to be a very clever one.

I don't think you're being unreasonable in wanting some clarification, but IMHO it comes across as a bit of a storm in a teacup. Not wishing to labour the point, but specifying an acceptable margin up front removes the issue altogether.
[/quote]

My first thought was that I was being fleeced, but that's possibly just paranoia

Wasn't trying to kick up a stink, just merely relaying a seemingly related anecdote to the original posters experience.
But yes, agreeing acceptable margins up front sounds like a wise move, albeit one that I clearly hadn't considered at the time

[pmjos]

I watched the proprietor whilst he gave both basses a precursory dust, photographed them all in about 10 minutes, not much more. I am bemused by the strings comment too as I had restrung both basses less than 2 weeks before and he neither asked nor offered. They didn't require restringing, setting up or cleaning. They were in perfect order. He certainly didn't do anything before the photos's. He just took the pic and put them away upstairs whilst I spent nearly 5 grand in his shop.

I was not advised that there were any selling fees whatsoever over and above the percentage. I was similarly not advised that there were any marketing charges which would apply irrespective of the sale going through. Again there was no exclusivity agreement between us. . It was my clear understanding that this was on a sale or return basis. No sale no fee.

There is nothing on the website, nothing in a contract between us and by his own admission he is 'sorry he did not advise me before'.

One instrument has a private buyer and the other is a straight return.

What do you think?

[poptart]

Hi all, sorry for any upset caused here, I have explained that the payment is only a request and not a demand and is to cover some of the cost of producing images/artwork/webpages plus inclusion in accompanying price lists, mailing lists, facebook etc plus the time in taking calls/emails etc. In future I will make it clear that if a bass does not sell there may be a small cost involved. I think I have only asked for this twice in nearly ten years of trading so maybe I need to look at it again :-)

[leftybassman392]

It's always good to hear both sides of the story with this kind of thing. Helps keep us all from rushing to judgement...

[binky_bass]

I think some people (myself included) get a bit miffed when asked to pay fees that are unexpected or not explained, even if said fees are reasonable. Maybe charge £30 for the service involved and say it'll be minused from the commission fee if/when the item sells. Keeps everyone in the know!

[pmjos]

If I had a company offering commission sales (which I don't) hypothetically I will call it Company A. I might expect the following terms to be in place for my protection and for my clients. Just a thought. All comments made without prejudice.

Goods & Musical Instruments Instruments offered through Company A on a sale or return basis are accepted on the following terms where Company A is the Seller acting on behalf of the Owner of the goods selling to a Buyer. Goods offered for sale via Company A shall be available for a period of time referred to in these terms as the Offer Period.[list=1]
[*]Goods offered for sale or return through company A shall remain the property of the Owner until a sale is agreed with a Buyer
[*]Goods offered exclusively for sale via Company A shall not be subject to marketing or advertising fees should the good be withdrawn from sale by the Owner at any time and for any reason.
[*]Where goods are not offered exclusively through Company A and will be advertised elsewhere during the offer period, a fee of £x per item will be charged in advance to cover administration.
[*]Company A reserves the right to cease to offer goods for sale on an exclusive basis, should they be found advertised elsewhere
[*]It is the responsibility of the Owner of the goods to deliver the goods offered for sale via Company A to its premises and to collect them at the end of the offer period should the good not be sold for any reason. Company A has no obligation to ship unsold goods back at the end of the offer period unless subject to a separate written request from the Owner of the goods. In such a case shipping costs and insurance shall be agreed and paid for by the Owner in advance
[*]All goods offered for sale through company A, its shop or online sales will be subject to an inspection on receipt. Company A may accept/decline goods offered for sale or return at its sole discretion. It has no obligation to accept goods for sale.
[*]The selling price for the goods shall be agreed in advance prior to the goods being advertised. The advertised price is the gross price before any deductions due to Company A for commission or other agreed costs and charges.
[*]Commission charges are set at X% of the final sale price. A minimum fee of £x will apply.
[*]Company A are duly authorized by the Owner of the goods to conclude the sale of the goods at the agreed asking price at any time whilst they are on their premises. In such a case prior permission is granted to Company A to conclude such a sale as an implicit term of the agreement. This shall apply up until the Owner has declared their wish to discontinue the sale. A 24 hour grace period shall be allowed to Company A to close down and remove advertising during which time if an offer to buy is made this will be communicated to the Owner who may accept or reject that offer.
[*]Goods shall not be offered for sale by or sold by Company A at a discounted price without the prior agreement and express permission of the Owner.
[*]Company A may discontinue an advertisement or cease to offer for sale any goods at its discretion, for any reason and at any time. No compensation shall be due to the owner for any reason.
[*]All stringed musical instruments are supplied to Company A should be clean and set up. Should they require cleaning or major adjustment or setting up prior to being offered for sale a small additional fee of £x will be deducted from the final sale price. Ongoing adjustment, during the offer period shall be the responsibility of Company A.
[*]All stringed instruments should be supplied with a serviceable set of strings. If they are not Company A will offer to replace the strings for the owner and advise the cost prior to accepting the instrument. Owners are reminded that a poor set of strings will discourage buyers.
[*]Mains powered Electrical goods must be PAT tested prior to sale for which Company A will make a small charge of unless a valid PAT certificate can be provided.
[*]All goods offered for sale irrespective of type shall be safe for intended use in all regards.
[*]Whilst company A shall make every effort to verify the functionality of the goods, any undisclosed faults or faults which arise during the offer period which would require repair or major adjustment remain the responsibility of the owner of the goods. Company A may either offer to adjust or repair the goods for a fee or discontinue to offer the good for sale its sole discretion.
[*]Shipping costs for sale to a Buyer shall be met by the Buyer of the goods and not charged to the owner.
[*]It is understood that it is implicit within this agreement that the goods will be subject to use. This implies some minor degree of wear and tear. Whilst company A takes every effort to ensure that the Owner's goods are suitably cared for whilst on its premises some minor blemishes, marks or scratches may occur in normal use. It is accepted that this is the owners risk in offering the goods to be available for Company A customers to test. The owner shall hold Company A harmless in regard of such minor damage.
[*]Whilst good are on Company A premises they will be covered by Company A's insurances up to..............tbc - insurance company limitations here......... Major damage waiver etc.
[*]No other additional charges will be levied to the Owner of the goods by Company A unless agreed in writing between both parties.
[/list]

[Thunderbird]

Seems a bit out of order to me maybe you should chalk it to experience and talk with your wallet and shop elsewhere

[ambient]

I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked to pay something. They are providing a service after all, a service where they have spent time marketing your instrument, and have probably answered enquiries about it.

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1499791064' post='3333639']
I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked to pay something. They are providing a service after all, a service where they have spent time marketing your instrument, and have probably answered enquiries about it.
[/quote]he's not moaning about paying he is pissed at paying a charge he was not told about

[CamdenRob]

I'd expect to be told about it but it seems a reasonable fee for photos etc. Bass Direct aren't in business for fun...

[leftybassman392]

At the risk of seeming cynical, I'm getting a faint whiff of an accusation that Bass Direct knowingly misled a customer and imposed a compulsory fee without prior warning. Somebody want to tell me I'm wrong?

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1499792299' post='3333652']
A service which they receive 20% of the sale price for.
[/quote]

Unless of course the instrument doesn't sell...