Jazz basses, what's the point?

[HeadlessBassist]

6 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

As someone who plays both, I'll play devil's advocate and ask is failure to get results out of both types of tried, tested and proven instruments, a failure of the bass or the player?

 

I don't think it's a failure in either case. Basically, some instruments suit certain people, particularly in terms of playability and sound. And we all have different hands and ears. I just accept that I'm not really a Precision player. I've tried many times, but I always migrate back to the Jazz. I love the sound of a really good Jazz bass and how it feels and responds to my light, dynamic touch.

 

My sort of P-alike for sessions is a Vintera II Mustang with Thomastik Jazz Flats. It's close enough for Jazz, as it were. 

[Stub Mandrel]

I was playing devil's advocate.

 

I think more likely some people get a sound/feel they really like and simply aren't motivated to try hard with other instruments.

 

Me, I get motivated by playing different instruments.

[Russ]

I never quite understood Jazzes back in the day. Loved the look, the balance. and that scooped sound for slap and pick work, and the bridge pickup for fingerstyle, but making them work in the mix in a band context (especially one with heavy guitars) was always a bit of a challenge. 

 

Two things fixed that - firstly, and most obviously, dial the bridge pickup down about 20% from maximum, or, if you have a pan, dial it a bit more towards the neck pickup. Instant barky mids. Different to the mids on a P, but just as punchy. Secondly, compression. Jazzes LOVE compression. Don't be afraid of adding loads, the amount of additional thickness you get is worth the small loss of dynamics. 

 

I don't play Jazzes any more, but that's what worked for me. 

[80Hz]

I’ve been trying to come up with an unpopular opinion here, but the truth is I pick up my Jazz and say, ah, this sounds nice and plays great. Then I pick up my P and say… well, sounds nice, plays great!

 

There’s a lot to be said for knowing each sound well and when to deploy it. There’s so much territory can be covered with two pickups (or one!) with different strings and playing techniques. It’s also fine to stick everything on full and not overthink it😁

 

This reminds me that I’ve never actually had flats on my Jazzes. Some homework to do there.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Two things fixed that - firstly, and most obviously, dial the bridge pickup down about 20% from maximum, or, if you have a pan, dial it a bit more towards the neck pickup.

 

A good jazz, neck maxed, bridge dialled down a bit is loudest setting.

 

Bridge turned to about 10% is the sweetest sound.

 

The volume and tone on a p-bass are redundant except for home practice late evening...

 

 

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, SimonK said:

Wow - eight year necro-bump!!

 

Revived purely to slag off the Jazz bass. Seems a bit pointless. They're basses.

[SurroundedByManatees]

The Jazz Bass has been a prominent instrument in the music scene for 65 years now. It's probably not that bad.

 

Personally I like the sound of jazzes and think they can do well for most styles. I also like the way a P sounds in a band, but mostly prefer the warmer and deeper J sounds.

 

Nowadays I prefer flats on most of my basses, with one of my jazzes being strung with La Bella's. Sounds wonderfull and has a bit more booty than rounds.

 

 

[crazycloud]

No true bass man, would ever play anything but a P.

[HeadlessBassist]

2 minutes ago, crazycloud said:

No true bass man, would ever play anything but a P.

 

Have you had a TalkBass-based personality transplant, or something? 🤪

[Reggaebass]

I’ve had many other basses but after the initial honeymoon period I’ve always ended up picking up one of my  jazzes or precision’s, they just feel like home to me so they are all I buy now 

[crazycloud]

21 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Have you had a TalkBass-based personality transplant, or something? 🤪

Och aye, ya dinnae ken.

[fretmeister]

10 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was playing devil's advocate.

 

I think more likely some people get a sound/feel they really like and simply aren't motivated to try hard with other instruments.

 

Me, I get motivated by playing different instruments.

 

Definitely - sonics and the feel of the bass are inspirational to me. I play my basses very differently. Among the collection I have 2 nearly identical Jim Deacon shortie P basses. One with an Aguilar 1960s spec pickup and La Bella Flats and the other with an EMG P-X and Elixir rounds. Even with them being so similar I play them completely differently.

 

The Aguilar one is my first choice for finger style Duck Dunn / Jamerson / Cogbill sounds. It's just deep, thick, and chewy sounding.

The EMG one is my JJ Burnell / Foxton / etc for pick playing. It's really aggressive and sounds amazing with a bit of drive on it.

 

I have long scale basses too, some of them being a lot my expensive than these budget shorties, but I'd be more upset if the shorties got pinched than the expensive ones.

 

I'm going to be looking for another one to turn it into a PJ I think.

[chris_b]

45 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

The Aguilar one is my first choice for finger style Duck Dunn / Jamerson / Cogbill sounds. It's just deep, thick, and chewy sounding.

The EMG one is my JJ Burnell / Foxton / etc for pick playing. It's really aggressive and sounds amazing with a bit of drive on it.

 

I use an Aguilar TH500 for my passive PJ5 with flats and an AG700 for my active Jazz with rounds. IMO they compliment the sound of those basses.

[fretmeister]

7 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I use an Aguilar TH500 for my passive PJ5 with flats and an AG700 for my active Jazz with rounds. IMO they compliment the sound of those basses.

 

I've never had an Aguilar amp. I think partly because I couldn't decide which one to get.

 

Mind you, every few years I go round the houses with various amps and cabs and always end up back at Mark Bass so I really should stop spending money.

[miles'tone]

I'd like another Jazz Bass at some point. I used to have one but it didn't speak to me. I realise now that I didn't understand the nuances of how to dial in the pickups for different sounds/occasions - user error.

This SBL vid is what has piqued my interest again...

 

@17.40

 

[Reggaebass]

1 hour ago, miles'tone said:

17.40

Yeah, I actually found that out many years ago while playing about one day, add some labella LTFs and it’s the perfect reggae sound 

[fretmeister]

I never knew about that back off the volume thing - that's really cool.

 

I don't think it will work with my EMG loaded J though! The tone stays as is when the volume is reduced.

[JapanAxe]

For me - no point whatsoever, I don’t get on with them. I miss the fatness of a P, and jiggling the volume controls just annoys me rather than producing any worthwhile tones.

 

For people who enjoy them - they are the bee’s knees, cat’s pyjamas, dog’s danglies etc. And that’s fine of course - use what works for you.

[Bassman108]

I’m 58 years old and started playing bass when I was 15 I think and just learned that volume reggae trick maybe a year ago. It totally works. 

[Belka]

This might be a bit tangential but I have noticed from attending gigs over the last few years that P basses really tend to disappear in modern mixes (I'm talking decent sized gigs with a professional PA/soundman, not how bad your own P bass sounds down the Dog and Duck before anyone takes offence).

I don't think this is a fault of the P bass but of the way everything is mixed these days (all subs/bass drum, very little midrange). The whole reason the P sits in a recorded mix so well is due to its low midrange presence, and when these frequencies are not given enough prominence the sound turns to mud. Of course, while we should aim our ire at the soundmen or spectators who actually think that kind of mix sounds good, an easier solution would be to use a bass with a bridge pickup. Even with a rubbish mix you're more likely to hear some of the bass come through.

 

 

[Bassman108]

13 minutes ago, Belka said:

This might be a bit tangential but I have noticed from attending gigs over the last few years that P basses really tend to disappear in modern mixes (I'm talking decent sized gigs with a professional PA/soundman, not how bad your own P bass sounds down the Dog and Duck before anyone takes offence).

I don't think this is a fault of the P bass but of the way everything is mixed these days (all subs/bass drum, very little midrange). The whole reason the P sits in a recorded mix so well is due to its low midrange presence, and when these frequencies are not given enough prominence the sound turns to mud. Of course, while we should aim our ire at the soundmen or spectators who actually think that kind of mix sounds good, an easier solution would be to use a bass with a bridge pickup. Even with a rubbish mix you're more likely to hear some of the bass come through.

 

 

I kind of agree with you but I would take even a step forward and say an arena type concerts you can hear the bass drum loud and clear but the bass guitar gets buried for some reason. A few years back I saw the who right after John Entwistle died and Pino Palladino took his place.  It was such a waste as I could not hear anything he was playing over the drums. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Bassman108

[fretmeister]

The modern approach of having the kick drums amazingly loud is so annoying. It just kills everything else in the same freq range.

Seems to be infecting more and more genres too. It used to just be modern metal, but now it's everywhere.

[Belka]

5 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

The modern approach of having the kick drums amazingly loud is so annoying. It just kills everything else in the same freq range.

Seems to be infecting more and more genres too. It used to just be modern metal, but now it's everywhere.

I saw Rod Stewart at Ashton Gate in Bristol a couple of years ago. The bassist was using a vintage sunburst P bass. You couldn't hear it at all. I saw Donny Benet this Saturday. Again, P bass. the mix was better but his bass was noticeably less audible than when I saw him previously using a PJ F Bass. The snare and Bass drum were incredibly loud - judging by how softly the drummer was playing he seemed to be aware of it too.

 

The best sounding gig I've seen recently was Mike Stern with Hadrien Feraud on bass and Dennis Chambers on drums. Hadrien and Mike just went through their amps with no IEMS - great sound - everything was crystal clear. Of course I'm aware how such a set-up wouldn't work on a bigger stage.

[fretmeister]

8 minutes ago, Belka said:

 

 

The best sounding gig I've seen recently was Mike Stern with Hadrien Feraud on bass and Dennis Chambers on drums. Hadrien and Mike just went through their amps with no IEMS - great sound - everything was crystal clear. Of course I'm aware how such a set-up wouldn't work on a bigger stage.

 

Man - I would have loved to see that gig!

 

[Lozz196]

33 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

The modern approach of having the kick drums amazingly loud is so annoying. It just kills everything else in the same freq range.

Seems to be infecting more and more genres too. It used to just be modern metal, but now it's everywhere.

Agree, it`s getting to the point where at some gigs it decimates pretty much all the other instruments.