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Les

Bagpipes, yes bagpies !

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My band lacks talent but makes up for it with balls and more front than Blackpool

We finish the first spasm with Copperhead Road, storms it, foot tapping jiggy stuff when it gets going.

I would like to do the intro bit on a cheap (if there is such a thing) set of pipes. Yes, I know it wasn't done on bagpipes but it sounds like it.

The song is in D and as far as I can research Bagpipes aren't. Can I do this ? Are they tuneable ? It doesn't really matter if I sound like I'm murdering small mammals cos'it's more effect than serious music making but I would like it to be in key.

Thanks in advance for any sound advice or mickey taking.

Les

ps I can't actually play them either but that's never stopped me before

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Well make up your mind ... is it bagpipes or bagpies?

And can you play them while eating a donner ([i]sic[/i]) kebab?

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[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469111084' post='3095853']
And can you play them while eating a donner ([i]sic[/i]) kebab?
[/quote]

I can't actually play them under any circumstances but how hard can it be :lol:

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I am assuming you mean the most common/familiar type of bagpipes - the Great Highland Bagpipe. I don't know where your research was done but they do in fact play in A mixolydian, which is obviously closely related to the scale of D major. The confusion has probably arisen because bagpipe music doesn't bother to mention that its C is actually C# and its F is actually F# - since the chanter plays only the one scale, the sharps were deemed superfluous to mention. Also, you're likely caught out by the fact that over the years, they have crept up from the quasi-standard A=440Hz tuning, to as high as A=485Hz (B flat is 465Hz I think). So you need to be careful to research this and obtain bagpipes which are designed to play at A=440.

http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html should help you with tuning them - out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!

A further complication is that the chanter is tuned to just temprament, not even-tempered, and in fact the D and G are slightly sharp, so playing in these keys will sound wrong. You may be better off with smallpipes which are designed to play in D (mixolydian).

Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?

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[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469111084' post='3095853']
...is it bagpipes or bagpies?
[/quote]

I hope it's bagpies. I'm starving.

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Although in theory they are in A usually they seem to end up closer to Bb.

I have a reasonably decent Bagpipe sound on the V-Accordion and can shift the pitch. I could record something and send it to you if that would be any use?

Sounds to me like the original was done with a keyboard of some kind, maybe a clavinet?

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If it's Wigan, it's gotta be bagpies... :D

We do this one, but we use keyboards for the first spasm*, perhaps a cheap melodica might be a good idea?


* Ohhh, I'm keeping that one... :)

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[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469116890' post='3095920']out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!


[/quote]

So I take it no one in history has managed it yet as they all sound like a bag of cats :blink:

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[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469116890' post='3095920']
Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?
[/quote]

Thank you for that comprehensive reply Paul, although I struggled with some of it. Need the visual impact not the sound to be honest.


[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1469118105' post='3095938']
Sounds to me like the original was done with a keyboard of some kind, maybe a clavinet?
[/quote]

Apparently it was done on a harmonica with a lot of processing.



[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1469120178' post='3095965']
So I take it no one in history has managed it yet as they all sound like a bag of cats :blink:
[/quote]

Now now Del :D

We've done it for years, I play a bass riff and the drums play a 4 to the bar kick, then the guitarist joins in, this is all done as the singer needs to change from acoustic guitar to either mandolin or a banjo/guitar hybrid. Just not sure if I can get it to happen.

this is what I'm after



[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhMO9azmKNU"]https://www.youtube....h?v=uhMO9azmKNU[/url]

Would be more a visual audience kind of thing as if it happens I'll be playing them stood on a table in the middle of the room or stood on/behind the bar.

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I think you may get a very similar sound by using a kazoo... A much maligned instrument. If that doesn't have the right visual impact, get someone to crochet a bagpipe cushion out of spare bits of wool and stuff the kazoo inside.

Or... I believe you can get the chanter on its own, pipers use them for practice and it will be cheaper and easier than the full monty.

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You can pick up cheap bagpipes for about £60 on eBay, I think........

If you're going to be stood somewhere else other than on the stage, you'll obviously not be able to "fool" the audience by operating the bagpipes silently and the sound coming from another source eg synthesiser or pre-recorded sample.

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[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469125021' post='3096013']
You can pick up cheap bagpipes for about £60 on eBay, I think........

If you're going to be stood somewhere else other than on the stage, you'll obviously not be able to "fool" the audience by operating the bagpipes silently and the sound coming from another source eg synthesiser or pre-recorded sample.
[/quote]

This.

It's the 60 quid ones I'm looking at on Ebay.

It's the novelty value, won't matter if what I play is all over the place as long as the drone fits with the song in D if you get what I mean Paul.

Do you by any chance have a set in A or thereabouts that you could actually play along to the intro in the youtube link I posted and let me know if I'm going to get something usable ?

I'd be much obliged

cheers

Les

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I was about to complain that this thread is in the wrong forum, but I see it's "Other Instruments", not "Other Musical Instruments", so that's OK :P :ph34r:

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I used to play Northumbrian Pipes and you could get sets that were tuned to D, sadly mine aren't they are in F

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[quote name='Les' timestamp='1469127350' post='3096028']
This.

It's the 60 quid ones I'm looking at on Ebay.

It's the novelty value, won't matter if what I play is all over the place as long as the drone fits with the song in D if you get what I mean Paul.

Do you by any chance have a set in A or thereabouts that you could actually play along to the intro in the youtube link I posted and let me know if I'm going to get something usable ?

I'd be much obliged

cheers

Les
[/quote]

Jesus no, I don't play them!!!!! I only remembered about them when I was studying musical theory, and I did the bit on tuning instruments and how various instruments are tuned. It mentioned that bagpipes are an exception and a bit of an anomoly, hence...I looked some stuff up on the internet.

TBH at £60 its probably worth a go? If I'm not mistaken, then there's a pipe you blow into (just blow, no embrochure needed) and a pipe like a recorder where you cover up holes, which plays a scale. So its not massively complicated to get the "cat stood on" sound out of them. I understand that the skill is to make it sound nice........sadly a dying art.

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This is the way to do it properly. The "truly" Sensational Alex Harvey Band

Watch to the end...What a band :)

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTIox95OxTc"]https://www.youtube....h?v=nTIox95OxTc[/url] Edited by Pinball

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Here's my all-time bagpipe favourite - Swedish pipes this time, played by the wonderful Alban Faust.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDp0ZZ_QQcI[/media]


Also, bagpipes can be surprisingly good for metal:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WniLTWojgMQ[/media]

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[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469130797' post='3096060']
Jesus no, I don't play them!!!!![/quote]

That makes 2 of us :lol:

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[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469116890' post='3095920']
I am assuming you mean the most common/familiar type of bagpipes - the Great Highland Bagpipe. I don't know where your research was done but they do in fact play in A mixolydian, which is obviously closely related to the scale of D major. The confusion has probably arisen because bagpipe music doesn't bother to mention that its C is actually C# and its F is actually F# - since the chanter plays only the one scale, the sharps were deemed superfluous to mention. Also, you're likely caught out by the fact that over the years, they have crept up from the quasi-standard A=440Hz tuning, to as high as A=485Hz (B flat is 465Hz I think). So you need to be careful to research this and obtain bagpipes which are designed to play at A=440.

[url="http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html"]http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html[/url] should help you with tuning them - out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!!

A further complication is that the chanter is tuned to just temprament, not even-tempered, and in fact the D and G are slightly sharp, so playing in these keys will sound wrong. You may be better off with smallpipes which are designed to play in D (mixolydian).

Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....?
[/quote]Arguably, just intonation is more in-tune that the equal temperament that we use, since ET squashes 5th slightly and makes major 3rds way too wide...but that's another story...

You could go for something with a softer sound such as the Uillean or Northumbrian pipes, or a musette.

As most of these things are hand-made, I don't think there will be really cheap ones around. I do know someone who makes them (and recorders).

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[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1469140547' post='3096140']
Arguably, just intonation is more in-tune that the equal temperament that we use, since ET squashes 5th slightly and makes major 3rds way too wide...but that's another story...

You could go for something with a softer sound such as the Uillean or Northumbrian pipes, or a musette.

As most of these things are hand-made, I don't think there will be really cheap ones around. I do know someone who makes them (and recorders).
[/quote]

Yep - which is great when instruments with just tuning play together - eg string quartet, horn section, choir. But when they have to play with other instruments - piano, woodwind etc everyone needs to be in tune, so stuff like piano dictates that its equal temprament.

In theory a guitar could be constructed and tuned to just tuning - but its fretboard would be correct in only a handful of keys and an open tuning would need to be used. As soon as the limitation of those few keys is removed, the requirement means the frets need to be equally spaced to avoid bad clashes on certain notes.

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ross-Electronic-Bagpipes-Electronic-Practice-Chanter-/282108828259?hash=item41aeff1a63:g:gF0AAOSwdzVXkYfD

Sorted.

Next?

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[sub]Get the Gear 4 Music ones for £69, then you can send them back if the idea is beyond all hope[/sub]

http://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Bagpipes-by-Gear4music-Junior-Royal-Stewart/AAD?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=13333d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=117880820239&gclid=CjwKEAjwiMe8BRD0ts3Vtv-ohWgSJAAZurk1O8vLRAeHaHgLg6MeG1ocZ169UMA3U-dnX-A54HzzrxoCdjHw_wcB

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[quote name='Les' timestamp='1469122867' post='3095988']
Apparently it was done on a harmonica with a lot of processing.
[/quote]

...which, from the sounds of it, was then wiped from the master tape and re-dubbed using a typical 80's synth.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1469172615' post='3096244']
...which, from the sounds of it, was then wiped from the master tape and re-dubbed using a typical 80's synth.
[/quote] Which would lack the theatrical drama of bagpipes if you can carry it off. :D


We demand to see the video on the finished result, of course.
:party: :useless: :party:

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