TimR Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469450423' post='3098351'] The person who wrote it must have made some kind of recording to be able to have it covered, even Tab would be sufficient as a 'record' of the song's existence? [/quote] If you're going to take it to that extreme, there are practically no original recordings. Everything exsists as a demo somewhere before it's taken into a studio and worked on. How far do you take it? It's a cover if someone has previously released the song as a commercial recording. Regardless of who originally wrote it. In this context 'Original' refers to the recording and release process. When we are talking about an 'originals' band, the music is original as in it hasn't been recorded by another artist first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469448083' post='3098324'] 'LewisK1975' timestamp='1469198602' post='3096581' [color=#b22222]OK then - IMHO a cover band is any band who performs a song that was recorded and released by someone else first.[/color] 'blue' timestamp='1469199041' post='3096588' [color=#0000ff]That's a good basic definition.[/color] 'Happy Jack' timestamp='1469201232' post='3096635' [color=#008000]No it's not. Several of Carole King's biggest hits were first recorded and released by other artists. When she released her own self-penned songs later, are you seriously suggesting that made her a covers act?[/color] 'blue' timestamp='1469210893' post='3096749' [color=#0000ff]Carole King is not a band, she's a singer/song writer and certainly not a local bar or functions band. Very off topic[/color]. 'Happy Jack' timestamp='1469217376' post='3096807' [color=#008000]Sorry Blue but that's complete tosh. There was an attempt to provide a workable definition of 'covers' which was a dreadful oversimplification. The attempted definition existed independently of the size or type of venue. My point stands, and I'll make my own decision as to what is off topic.[/color] 'LewisK1975' timestamp='1469445037' post='3098288' [color=#b22222]I assume you're referring to my post: Not sure why the size or type of venue matters?...if a band is playing a song that was recorded and released by someone else first, then at that moment in time they are being a cover band. ... snipped... Great thread, but it's amazing how some folks can get so wound up over these sorts of things.[/color] People tend to get more wound up when other people deliberately quote them out of context, so it's a bit sad to see you doing precisely that. My comment "[color=#008000][i]There was an attempt to provide a workable definition of 'covers' which was a dreadful oversimplification[/i][/color][color=#0000ff][i].[/i][/color]" referred to your definition, which would have turned Carole King (and many others) into covers bands for allowing others to record & release their original songs before they chose to do so. As I said, a dreadful oversimplification. My comment "[color=#008000][i]The attempted definition existed independently of the size or type of venue[/i][/color][color=#0000ff].[/color]" referred to Blue's enthusiastic endorsement and then defence of your definition, which was completely irrelevant because it tried to drag venue size into the matter for no apparent reason. Presumably Blue couldn't think of anything better. Give him time. This all looks pretty straightforward to me. Which bit are you struggling with? [/quote] Nothing now. Thanks. The trouble is with any definition someone can come up with, there will always be an example someone can think of which makes that definition incorrect......I was only trying to contribute to what I think is an interesting thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1469397346' post='3098030'] Covers bands often play crowd pleasers. It's just that they don't necessarily please the crowd they're playing to. [/quote] Agreed Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1469356985' post='3097589'] Fair point, and in the final analysis liking the music played is the main thing. But if a punter is going to spend good money on a band they've not seen or heard before it's useful for them to know if the band will be playing originals or covers (or maybe both). Neither is intrinsically better than the other, it just helps inform the punter. They might like the 'safe' option of covers, knowing that they'll likely recognise most of the songs, or they might be up for some new music - it doesn't really matter what they choose but it sometimes helps if they can made an informed choice. Also, such information is pretty important for anyone planning to book a function band . . . to the point that they may even want to specify what is going to be played, to some degree. [/quote] I can only speak for Milwaukee. 99% of all clubs and bars that book live music are dedicated to cover bands. These clubs and bars do not hire originals bands. We have about 6 origibal bands clubs that book multi bill shows. These clubs do not book cover bands. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 We do have venues that may have unknown originals multi band night on Thursday, covers band Friday and big name original act on a Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469451224' post='3098357'] Often, in the old days, the composer would have written out the dots above the lyricist's words. No recording, unless we are going to call the dots a recording method which, of course, it was. [/quote] If you make some method of returning to something it's a record, the black circular thing came much later than the word didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469467904' post='3098571'] If you make some method of returning to something it's a record, the black circular thing came much later than the word didn't it? [/quote] Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version"]https://en.wikipedia...i/Cover_version[/url] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_band"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_band[/url] Edited July 25, 2016 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [b]BBC Radio 2 - Greatest Cover Versions: Top 50[/b] [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/playlists/zzzzcm"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/playlists/zzzzcm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469464505' post='3098531'] I can only speak for Milwaukee. 99% of all clubs and bars that book live music are dedicated to cover bands. These clubs and bars do not hire originals bands. We have about 6 origibal bands clubs that book multi bill shows. These clubs do not book cover bands. Blue [/quote] That's really quite sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1469464759' post='3098535'] We do have venues that may have unknown originals multi band night on Thursday, covers band Friday and big name original act on a Saturday. [/quote] That's cool. We don't have any local big name originals bands in Milwaukee unless your talking about signed bands that are more or less famous. For example our Violent Fems. Blue Edited July 25, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Kev' timestamp='1469475092' post='3098653'] That's really quite sad [/quote] Milwaukee is a "blue collar" working class scene that caters to cover bands. The 6 originals clubs are on the east side of Milwaukee, the progressive liberal side if town. Blue Edited July 25, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Violent Femmes, great band. Highly original (and they did a great cover of Children of the Revolution once). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469452915' post='3098378']I was only trying to contribute to what I think is an interesting thread... [/quote] ... and you are - see below [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469445037' post='3098288'] But then, what about a band who perform 30 songs and 15 of them are covers, and 15 are originals? What do we call them? Quite easy really, they're a band! [/quote] When I first started out all bands were called bands. No one (afaik) below the rank of Harvey Goldsmith articulated a distinction between bands that played originals, bands that played covers and bands that played a mix of both. As I recall, the key delineation was whether a band was amateur, semi-pro or pro. Amateur bands tended to comprise wild-eyed youth unleashing a tinny mix of covers and originals in the vain hope of getting their cherry popped. Semi-pros were glum, middle-aged alcoholics playing 'Tie A Yellow Ribbon' to chicken-in-a-basket punters. Pro bands drove round in Rolls Royces and smoked industrial quantities of privet. It's all different now. [i]O tempora, O mores.[/i] [color=#faebd7][i].[/i][/color] Edited July 25, 2016 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Before the Beatles came along no one wrote their own songs. Everyone played covers or songs written for them. True dat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Life was harder then. You had to wait for a musician to come along before your newest song could be played and if you were a singist you had to be polite to song writers. Ahhhhhh the establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Yup. Troo dat. If you ignore all those pesky blues musicians who didn't just repeat what Robert Johnson played. Oh, you meant pop music only? In that case, troo dat. If you ignore the exceptions. Like 'Move It' by The Shadows, written by Ian Samwell, of The Shadows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 You move it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1469513295' post='3098825'] Yup. Troo dat. If you ignore all those pesky blues musicians who didn't just repeat what Robert Johnson played. Oh, you meant pop music only? In that case, troo dat. If you ignore the exceptions. Like 'Move It' by The Shadows, written by Ian Samwell, of The Shadows. [/quote] Perfect example. A song written by someone no one has ever heard of and sung by Cliff Richard. QED . Edited July 26, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469436004' post='3098175'] These versions (and more) all predate Natalie Imbruglia ... the song was composed and written by members of Ednaswap (Anne Preven and Scott Cutler) and producer (Phil Thornally who also produced the Natalie Imbruglia album). [media]http://youtu.be/V1SH1YdITDI[/media] [/quote] I remember reading an interview with Paul Bushnell, bassist with Ednaswap. Finding out their song they'd been gigging for years was a hit without them being involved broke up the band. Paul Bushnell did allright out of it having seen who he's played with since, here's the article. [url="http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/nov09/articles/paulbushnell.htm"]http://www.performin...aulbushnell.htm[/url] As a cover band player (whatever that is, I'm so unsure ) I have to say the bass line the session guy put on the hit version is a lot of fun to play. Edited July 26, 2016 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1469516003' post='3098852'] I remember reading an interview with Paul Bushnell, bassist with Ednaswap. Finding out their song they'd been gigging for years was a hit without them being involved broke up the band. Paul Bushnell did allright out of it having seen who he's played with since, here's the article. [url="http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/nov09/articles/paulbushnell.htm"]http://www.performin...aulbushnell.htm[/url] [/quote] The song actually predates Ednaswap though doesn't it and was given to Imbruglia by one of the original writers? Is that not right? And Preven and Cutler must have done quite well financially from the Imbruglia version? And here's another version by one of the original writers ... http://youtu.be/Z6E2whjUOcY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1469481790' post='3098756'] ... When I first started out all bands were called bands ... [color=#faebd7][i].[/i][/color] [/quote] When I first started out all bands were called groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469518034' post='3098864'] When I first started out all bands were called groups. [/quote] Whatever happened to beat combos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1469518831' post='3098872'] Whatever happened to beat combos? [/quote] Still going ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Imbruglia's version is much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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