4stringslow Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469359016' post='3097626'] I take your points but it remains the case that no good is no good whether it's so-called original or so-called cover. [/quote] True, but 'no good' is largely a subjective opinion and prior information can help the punter choose whether to pay for the experience or not. I'd very much like to know the basic genre of music an unknown (to me) band would be playing before I pay to see them. I can then avoid wasting my money on metal or rap bands, whether they are playing covers or originals. Edited July 24, 2016 by 4stringslow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469357962' post='3097604'] It would be quite feasible to select an excellent setlist of, for example, obscure and for most people unknown northern soul tunes and have an audience drinking and dancing and happy. No need to tell the audience 'covers' or 'original' or anything. [/quote] You wouldn't get away with it in Wigan though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1469360448' post='3097648'] True, but 'no good' is largely a subjective opinion and prior information can help the punter choose whether to pay for the experience or not. I'd very much like to know the basic genre of music an unknown (to me) band would be playing before I pay to see them. I can then avoid wasting my money on metal or rap bands, whether they are playing covers or originals. [/quote] I don't really accept that 'no good' is largely a subjective opinion - even if there may sometimes be an element of personal subjective and/or cultural relative judgement involved. However I don't intend to debate that matter here or now. So let's not get into that. I do fully accept that punters may like to know something about what they are going to see and hear including genre. They may think so-called originals versus so-called covers is important but I don't or, if i do, it's in a rather minimal and secondary way. I too woudln't be interested in a genre called 'metal' but for rap I'd have to ask: what sort of rap? Either way I probably wouldn't be asking 'originals or covers?'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1469361072' post='3097656'] You wouldn't get away with it in Wigan though [/quote] Ha ha! Very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469359167' post='3097630'] If you are completing a PRS form for the promoter then you ought to tell the truth - but the PRS form is not the audience. The PRS form isn't interested in whether it's a so-called cover or so-called original - they just want to know the composers/authors/arrangers. [/quote] Thanks. I have it on my list to visit the PRS site and study the rules but for now I really can't be arsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469361517' post='3097661'] I don't really accept that 'no good' is largely a subjective opinion - even if there may sometimes be an element of personal subjective and/or cultural relative judgement involved. However I don't intend to debate that matter here or now. So let's not get into that. I do fully accept that punters may like to know something about what they are going to see and hear including genre. They may think so-called originals versus so-called covers is important but I don't or, if i do, it's in a rather minimal and secondary way. I too woudln't be interested in a genre called 'metal' but for rap I'd have to ask: what sort of rap? Either way I probably wouldn't be asking 'originals or covers?'. [/quote] Putting the 'no good' thing aside (oh so tempting not to though ), original or covers is not particularly important to me either, though I do tend to have more admiration for artists performing their own material. I guess it's something to do with skill vs creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Some folk like to feel loyal to an artist more than others I suppose. Others are loyal to the tune no matter who plays it. Remind anyone of politics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469357537' post='3097601'] Are there ANY bands doing a full set of covers taken from obscure albums passing them off as their own or at least not mentioning it in any way? [/quote] I did start a band once where we picked songs that members loved that were not well known, we had real fun in the studio but never gigged. If we had, we would have still called ourselves covers. I seemed to remember the Australian girl from Neigbours passed off "Torn" or a similar song as an original , then Chris Evans found european version which sounded exactly the same and predated it, so Im sure its not done and got away with 100s of times in the charts. Edited July 24, 2016 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Plenty of artists have tried to rip songs off but I don't think there would be any proper bands doing the rounds doing typical multiband nights trying to pass off say 45 mins of obscure covers. Obviously One Direction and their ilk are basically a covers band aren't they but as soon as it says written by X in the CD sleeve they aren't actually trying to say they wrote it, the old co written thing is done to try and give credit to pop stars, change a few words and claim they co wrote it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1469357962' post='3097604'] It would be quite feasible to select an excellent setlist of, for example, obscure and for most people unknown northern soul tunes and have an audience drinking and dancing and happy. No need to tell the audience 'covers' or 'original' or anything. [/quote] Interesting,I always think of cover bands as a band playing crowd pleasers. Songs the crowd knows they can sing and dance to. If your covering obscure yet catchy dance tunes and your working I say you fall into most of the cover band definitions given in this thread. Blue Edited July 24, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1469378873' post='3097831'] Obviously One Direction and their ilk are basically a covers band aren't they but as soon as it says written by X in the CD sleeve they aren't actually trying to say they wrote it, the old co written thing is done to try and give credit to pop stars, change a few words and claim they co wrote it. [/quote] But surely it's technically only a cover if it wasn't written by you or for you..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 My first band started out playing stuff we just liked and then became predominantly "original"... we opened our set with an obscure cover, Todd Rundgren's Real Man. We weren't trying to fool anyone, but it was a little saddening to be told it was our best song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1469197977' post='3096563'] If Lennon/mcCartney recorded and released it, then Cilla's version is a cover. I think this is the definition - if the song was recorded & released by someone else first, then any future version, live or recorded is a cover. [/quote] Which produces such oddities as David Bowie's cover of "All the Young Dudes" and Bruce Springsteen's cover of "Because the night". I don't think Prince did a cover of "Nothing compares 2U". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1469380388' post='3097847'] But surely it's technically only a cover if it wasn't written by you or for you..? [/quote] Generally the songs acts like that perform are songs written by song writers that can be purchased by anyone, their management will contact the writer AFTER It's been written to strike a deal as co written. Basically we are back to Carole king again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1469386161' post='3097917'] Which produces such oddities as David Bowie's cover of "All the Young Dudes" and Bruce Springsteen's cover of "Because the night". I don't think Prince did a cover of "Nothing compares 2U". [/quote] But there will be a version originally recorded by the writer somewhere we just haven't heard it, I doubt Bowie described the song over the phone to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469380350' post='3097846'] Interesting,I always think of cover bands as a band playing crowd pleasers. Songs the crowd knows they can sing and dance to. [/quote] 'Crowd pleasers' can't be a useful definition of a cover band. That would make the Stones a covers band! It's all down to authorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Daveo Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Covers band are bands that play other people's music at various levels of pub and club to weddings. Some even putting there own spin on the tracks,some of the finest musos I've ever met are in cover bands, some even making a living from it. This just my definition of it... I struggle defining Jaffa Cakes though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1469380416' post='3097849'] My first band started out playing stuff we just liked and then became predominantly "original"... we opened our set with an obscure cover, Todd Rundgren's Real Man. We weren't trying to fool anyone, but it was a little saddening to be told it was our best song! [/quote] A great point. That song would have been produced by a professional regardless of what Todd Rundgren had originally written. It would have been through a process to make it commercially viable. I've played a few originals band who have been intent on not sounding commercial. Which, again, is all very admirable, but misses the point of producing pop music. By definition pop music is popular. . Edited July 24, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1469390301' post='3097966'] 'Crowd pleasers' can't be a useful definition of a cover band. That would make the Stones a covers band! It's all down to authorship. [/quote] The Stones were a cover band 50 years ago. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I'm in two covers bands, we certainly don't sound like the original records, lol Anyone who has got this far in life without watching any Postmodern Jukebox clips on YouTube you should head over there now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1469361072' post='3097656'] You wouldn't get away with it in Wigan though [/quote] Looking at last nights punters in Wigan, you would have got away with a two hour Smurfs cover set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='Chaos Daveo' timestamp='1469390579' post='3097971'] I struggle defining Jaffa Cakes though.. [/quote] Oh that's easy. They're cakes, not biscuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Daveo Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1469395025' post='3098008'] Oh that's easy. They're cakes, not biscuits. [/quote] You see,this is how wars start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='Chaos Daveo' timestamp='1469390579' post='3097971'] I struggle defining Jaffa Cakes though.. [/quote] You're in good company. It's a subject that has exercised some of the finest legal minds . . . and the taxman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21961566 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1469391770' post='3097985'] The Stones were a cover band 50 years ago. [/quote] Maybe, but that's not relevant to my disagreeing with your assertion [i]"I always think of cover bands as a band playing crowd pleasers"[/i] Besides, that was 50 years ago. No one would seriously call the Stones a cover band today. Sure, they'll play [i]some[/i] covers, but they are predominantly an originals band. Just like The Beatles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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