mcnach Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1467040536' post='3080692'] ...and not always on the bass amp! Is/are your guitarist(s) clogging up your sonic space by cranking their own bass controls too high? [/quote] this is a very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 [quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1467042553' post='3080712'] you'll only be using about 150watts (ish) with the one cab, adding another 8ohm cab will make the load 4ohm and you'll get the full 300watts edit: ^^ yeah what they said [/quote] No, the LM3 is 500W at 4 ohm. You get ~300W at 8ohm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 [quote name='modelreject' timestamp='1467043157' post='3080721'] "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]That's surprising! I'm currently playing my Mark Bass Big Bang through one single 300W cab (meaning my head is running with a max of 250W), and I don't even need to push the gain or master past halfway, and our drummer is the loudest guy on the planet."[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There may be other frequencies interfering as it is quite synth lead and no guitars.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hmmmm. Maybe my ear drums are already shot :-) I will have to run through a few more settings at the next re[/font][/color]hearsal. [/quote] HAve you got any sort of sound level meter? I have one in an app on my phone - it's a good way of getting a feel for how 'loud' something is. Bear in mind that the legal limit for employees (e.g. bar staff) is 85 dB continuous exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 [quote name='modelreject' timestamp='1467043157' post='3080721'] "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]That's surprising! I'm currently playing my Mark Bass Big Bang through one single 300W cab (meaning my head is running with a max of 250W), and I don't even need to push the gain or master past halfway, and our drummer is the loudest guy on the planet."[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There may be other frequencies interfering as it is quite synth lead and no guitars.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hmmmm. Maybe my ear drums are already shot :-) I will have to run through a few more settings at the next re[/font][/color]hearsal. [/quote] I think next time I'd have a chat with the synth person to make sure they don't have tons of bottom end, and maybe experiment with the position of the cab. Maybe that room is difficult, maybe you're getting a lot of boom that makes it all indistinct and you're trying to get better definition by turning up. I generally use a much less powerful single 12" cab for rehearsals. Drummer, three guitars, trumpet and sax plus 2-3 vocals. We are not quiet, and the cab (with an LM3) is more than fine for any size rehearsal room. I used to use a BF Compact a while ago, and although it's a more powerful cab than what I use now I sometimes found myself pushing harder than I do now. It appears that my new cabs give me the sound I want more easily. It's their voicing. Before adding a second speaker or giving up on the LM3, I'd experiment a bit more with what you have. If you end up realising that it's that you don't like the speaker you have, adding another will not be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1467057859' post='3080910'] ..... I used to use a BF Compact a while ago, and although it's a more powerful cab than what I use now I sometimes found myself pushing harder than I do now. It appears that my new cabs give me the sound I want more easily. It's their voicing. ............ [/quote] The voicing aspect is worth exploring. The 'clean' / 'uncoloured' / whatever you want to call it sound I get from BF cabs can result in me creating large spls without realising it close to the cab (700W non class D amp). Usual giveaway is the floor vibration (concrete raft) or band members telling me so. Conversely I recently bought a 15W Laney practice amp, this is also surprisingly loud but does not deliver the low end in the same amount (not surprising). How did I cope with 4x12 and Hiwatt 100 (before that HH 100, Vox AC 50), in the 1970s/80s, more so when guitar players were using Marshall / Fender / Hiwatt / Orange 100 watters. Edited June 27, 2016 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I use a 900w head running at 4 ohms into a Schro 2x12 at half volume. You guys must have really quiet drummers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 [quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1467062076' post='3080964'] I use a 900w head running at 4 ohms into a Schro 2x12 at half volume. You guys must have really quiet drummers... [/quote] Guitar players using 20W and 30W valve combos. Drummer like a fit version of keith Moon which is why it took 700W into the 4 ohm Barefaced Dubster. We had a dep drummer in the Charlie Watts mode, a much more pleasant experience which hastened the band demise and saved my hearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sratas Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 My 150 watts walkabout trough a big baby 2 is blowing the band off. I use it barely on when rehearsing and the guitard suffers the same... i suggest wisdom and more attention to global and mutual eq settings, makes a world of differencies. For example, the bass knob is turned down on guitar amps and other instruments are cut below 100-150 hz. This leaves the bass unadulterated and there is no subsonic rumble in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I use a GK MB500 through a gen 1 barefaced. I have the gain at 12 o'clock and the master at 9 o'clock (6 o'clock is off on a GK). At that volume it could drown out a reasonably loud drummer. There must be something else going on with your band sound? I have a john east retro and boost the low mid, which may help me cut through the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 That's a good point - what's your input signal like? Is it healthy enough to drive the Markbass effectively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 All good advice. And if you've scooped your mids, put them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I use a Lm3 into a single 12 (not barefaced) and I can easily get loud enough to drown out the drums. Beyond that the stage balance is all wrong so I don't have any need for more volume. Are you using the vpf filter? IME that pulls all the guts out of the sound, so I'd try turning it off if so, and set the eq flat. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Something isn't right...! The MB amps at 8 ohms kick pretty well...I've used just one TC RS210 and still had a lot of volume to play with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelreject Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Thanks again for all the tips. It did appear to be strange that everything was having to be turned up so loud. I think think the advice of taking out lows and turning up mids is great and I had done that...but it sort of defeats the purpose. The head and cab should be able to get the tone I want even at those volumes. To have to change the eq for volume reasons is a bit crazy. The cab can take up to 600W clean tone. Just wondering if there isn't enough power coming from the amp? The fact that the amp is clipping sometimes when slapping and the volume is already boosted up? I will give it another go this weekend and take all the advice on board. Will try tilting the cab and standing further away. Much appreciated!!!! I will also check out the iphone app to measure decibels. Thanks for that tip. Edited June 28, 2016 by modelreject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='modelreject' timestamp='1467103264' post='3081135'] To have to change the eq for volume reasons is a bit crazy. [/quote] Mmm... maybe not. The tone you want isn't necessarily the best tone for the band. The tone I prefer when playing solo would be totally unsuitable within my band. Getting a good sound is always a compromise and everyone in the band has to compromise too, or it won't work. I'm mainly pointing at guitarists who won't turn down and who won't cut the bottom end from their EQ. Edited June 28, 2016 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deksawyer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 You didn't have a knot in your speaker cable, did you........? D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='modelreject' timestamp='1467103264' post='3081135'] To have to change the eq for volume reasons is a bit crazy. The cab can take up to 600W clean tone. Just wondering if there isn't enough power coming from the amp? The fact that the amp is clipping sometimes when slapping and the volume is already boosted up?[/quote] creating the low frequencies at high volumes requires alot of power (as i understand it) so if you have the lows turned up you will run out of volume quickly and it will swamp the tone. Yes the cab can take 600w but your amp is running at 8ohm so you will at best get 2/3 of your 300w. adding another 8ohm cab will have the amp running at 4ohm and you'll get the full 300w. your gain should be set so the amp only clips (clip light comes on if there is one) if you really dig in, if you boost your lows this will happen quicker so you will have to turn down your gain more. i know the VU meter on my ashdown spikes more with nmore lows added and the tone controls are accumulative so the more you boost them the lower the gain has to be, so i cut my bass a little and up the low mids and mids a little and keep an eye on the spikes when playing. hope tht helps and appologies if its a complete pile of gumph Edited June 28, 2016 by lowhand_mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Why do you need to be so loud in a rehearsal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Apologies if you know this but those two filter knobs are "off" in the 7 o'clock position, not 12o'clock. Also, for the best volume you need to set the gain with the volume at zero to the point where it clips at your hardest playing, then back off a tad. I used a LM 2 and Compact gen 1 for years and was never short on volume so I'm surprised to read this thread. There's a lot of good advice the this thread though. I hope you get sorted. Frank. PS. I f**king hate playing with drummers who have no dynamics in their playing and who beat the s*** out of their kit 100% of the time. A nightmare, and it totally kills the bands performance. Edited June 28, 2016 by machinehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelreject Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ha ha. Get it out o' ye Frank. It is a bit strange the whole thing but will see what happens this weekend :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1467110123' post='3081205'] Yes the cab can take 600w but your amp is running at 8ohm so you will at best get 2/3 of your 300w. adding another 8ohm cab will have the amp running at 4ohm and you'll get the full 300w. [/quote]Watts don't matter. You don't measure sound levels in watts, you measure it in decibels, and there's no direct correlation between the two. If there was a Vox AC30 wouldn't make your ears bleed from fifty feet away, nor would anyone be able to gig with an Ampeg B15. The simple fact of the matter is if you can't get the volume you want with one cab you need two cabs. Edited June 28, 2016 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote name='modelreject' timestamp='1467113424' post='3081232'] Ha ha. Get it out o' ye Frank. It is a bit strange the whole thing but will see what happens this weekend :-) [/quote] You can try my BB2 (with the horn turned off) with your Compact. That should give you a reasonable idea of how a pair of Compacts will sound. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Listen to BFM folks. Selling the LM500 and getting an 800 is only going to add 2dB (max) if you use the 1 cab. You will completely blow away drummer, guitar players and even the devil himself if you just add more speaker area. An 8 Ohm (so ohms the same as current) 4x10 would already sort the issue. 4 Ohm 810 (or 412) would tear faces off. My main rig is a Mesa 600 watt amp and 2 212 cabs. I never turn it past a third and then I am still crazy loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1467114691' post='3081252'] Watts don't matter. You don't measure sound levels in watts, you measure it in decibels, and there's no direct correlation between the two. If there was a Vox AC30 wouldn't make your ears bleed from fifty feet away, nor would anyone be able to gig with an Ampeg B15. The simple fact of the matter is if you can't get the volume you want with one cab you need two cabs. [/quote] eh? so what ive been told is all lies i stand corrected, though whats the point in buying an 800watt amp over a 300 if they dont matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1467116461' post='3081267'] eh? so what ive been told is all lies i stand corrected, though whats the point in buying an 800watt amp over a 300 if they dont matter [/quote] Absolutely. Your 800w amp might not even be 800w, but that's a whole other story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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