Dealing with extreme drummer volume

[72deluxe]

Hello!

I was wondering if any of you had tips for dealing with a drummer who drums at extreme volume? In one band I am in we have a great drummer who has groove and feel, and can play gentle passages but gets carried away and plays at ear-splitting levels. And I mean real insane mental volume. It isn't just the drums but the fact that each cymbal hit sounds like an A-bomb. Thankfully he has not played a rimshot yet but if he does there will likely be a shockwave and we'll all be dead.

I play with ear plugs in (always have, tis safer!) and the guitarist tried wearing plugs the other night but said "it sounds muffled, I can't hear myself" and therefore played without ear plugs and turns up to insane mental volume to match the drummer, as he says that he cannot hear himself. I can attest to the fact that he is extremely audible (!) and my hair is blowing in the opposite direction when he plays. He also has a love of presence and treble, and I believe he has hearing damage because whenever he plays (even in his house) it is at mental volumes and causes wincing.

I have taken to refusing to turn up and just getting down by my cab to hear myself but as these are practices, any real gig would cause permanent hearing damage to any punters.

How do I deal with this? The drummer does have deafness from decades of playing (he says he can't really hear his hihats, and also can't hear if you rub your fingers together next to his ear - he can't hear that) but when we politely indicate that he's far too loud he gets very upset and says that's drumming quietly.

Suggestions very welcome! The only one I can think of is refusing to turn up, EVER and convincing the guitarist to play with ear plugs in and NOT turn up "so that he can hear himself". He likely needs to just get used to the fact that ear plugs do make yourself sound muffled, but that's a benefit!!!!

Ideas?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1436779165' post='2820558']
we have a great drummer
[/quote]

Sorry to be harsh, but... you don't.

It's a situation I'm familiar with. Once a drummer's hearing goes, it's a slippery slope.

[cheddatom]

I doubt you're going to be able to solve this one

An obvious solution would be an electric kit and IEMs which he could turn up to deafening levels for himself while you have the volume control on the output of his kit.

[discreet]

I've had this problem in the past and the only way I was able to deal with it was to walk away. It's just not necessary for anyone to play too loudly, it's extremely unprofessional and anyone who says they need to play at high volume to 'get their sound' is talking crap.

Not very useful I know, so I hope you get some decent suggestions! Trouble is it's about changing the attitudes of both a drummer and a guitarist and it would be easier to herd cats. Good luck.

[72deluxe]

Ah I suspect this will be the case. My ears are ringing today and that's after wearing plugs all night; my right ear actually hurts a bit. I don't think losing my hearing is worth it!

Great idea about the electric kit - the next thing is to make the guitarist wear headphones and not deafen everyone with his insane volume too.
I only meant the drummer has great feel and groove and sounds great when he plays quietly - it's when he "gets into it" where Concorde taking off is quieter.

I have a few cats and have attempted to herd them, but to no avail; they completely ignore me. I suspect trying to change their attitudes will be just as effective. It's a pity really. Thanks!

EDIT: I could get a SPL meter wired up to power outlets that trip the power off for everyone like they do in village halls??? A measurement microphone to convince them that they're as loud as a pneumatic drill at 1M would be non-arguable, eh?

Edited July 13, 2015 by 72deluxe

[Dad3353]

Sorry to echo the others but, excepting the electronic kit suggested by CT, I'd have to say there's no alternative, so don't turn up. Don't turn up to rehearsals, and tell the bloke why. If he can't play at reasonable levels, he ain't got it, that's all. A damned shame, and a waste of talent and hard work, but the idea is to be musical, not damagingly loud. Just my tuppence-worth.

[JapanAxe]

I could not live with this. If the drummer won't change, walk, and politely tell him and the rest of the band why.

[Hobbayne]

I have been in the same situation as you. Nothing I said or did would make the drummer change his ways. So I picked up my P Bass and walked.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[KevB]

It's a real problem. The guy in the band I left earlier this year was in all other technical aspects very good but the overrall volume and specific tone of his snare was giving me a headache. It also meant there was a natural volume below which the band couldn't go as the drums were the limiting factor (not mic'd up). The drummer in the new band isn't a patch on him in terms of timing, picking new things up and general ability but I don't leave the gig with my ears ringing again. Finding drummers with the ability to do the tricky stuff, rock out when needed but also reign it in isn't easy, they are always in demand.

[hubrad]

This isn't just a drummer thing, in fact I'm pleased as anything to say that I play with a few drummers who can do both excellent quality AND volume to suit the moment - both high and low!
I [u]used[/u] to play with a tasty guitarist, nice chap too, who would put earplugs in then turn up to ear-splitting levels to counter the earplugs.. why?
Glad to say even the louder bands I play with tend to be more sensible when it comes to practice rooms. The whole point of practicing is you can differentiate between the good stuff and the bits that need work.
It's always a major step to leave (or cause major ructions in) a band you like, but your ears will still be thanking you in 10 years time!

[Bradwell]

Depending on your situation you might be able to play around with where equipment is set up in the practice room or try tricks like running a strip of insulation tape along the underside of cymbals to reduce their sustain or drop the tension in the drum heads to lower the volume. Alright, it will affect the feel and there are limits to how quietly a drum kit can be played but surely it's worth trying during practice sessions.

Having said that, a decent drummer will be able to play well at an appropriate volume at all times, same goes for the guitarist. Excess volume will make any problems with room acoustics more pronounced and therefore more difficult to attain a good balance.

If you find that neither band-mate is willing to sort things out (making up excuses like 'I need the volume to get my gear sounding it's best') then walk away. Been in that situation before and decided I'd rather save my hearing.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

What used to happen in my previous band( due to loud guitarist),; we would set up. Then Mr . Vox would check the sound levels and we stuck to that. Small rehearsal rooms were like torture chambers at times . The bigger picture; how are you gonna play the dog and duck, without being asked to leave mid set?

[TimR]

Funnily enough on a thread last month I was told in no uncertain terms that this kind of drummer (and guitarist) no longer exist.

.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TimR

[72deluxe]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436787820' post='2820687']
Funnily enough on a thread last month I was told in no uncertain terms that this kind of drummer (and guitarist) no longer exist.
[/quote]

Well, the ones who told you that are welcome to come along and suffer instant hearing loss at one of our practices if they want! Whoever told you that was completely wrong. In fact, most guitarists I have worked with played FAR too loud. I have never had a guitarist that I thought "oooh they're playing a bit quiet, wish they'd turn up!"

The tips in this thread are useful. I will attempt to educate them on their folly and perhaps politely convince them that they may be deaf? Hearing tests all round I think, including me.

[72deluxe]

They look good! Hopefully he will want to buy them, as I can't see him willingly spending money on them...

[cheddatom]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1436788841' post='2820705']
Clearsonic do some good kit. Available through Thomann.

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?bf=&sw=clearsonic"]http://www.thomann.d...=&sw=clearsonic[/url]
[/quote]

These are interesting - is there something special about this plastic? Some sort of acoustic science going on?

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1436790306' post='2820733']
They look good! Hopefully he will want to buy them, as I can't see him willingly spending money on them...
[/quote]

€500+ price tag, large bulky item to store and transport - you might have a problem there!

[JoeEvans]

Don't carry on like this or you will damage your own hearing. No band is worth destroying your ears. If you want to continue rehearsing while you have the debate within the band, I can recommend wearing good quality builder's ear protectors rather than earplugs. They cut out more noise if you get the right ones, and they are easier to slip on and off to chat between tunes. They also make a strong visual statement.

But honestly, don't stay with a drummer who will damage your ears for life.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436787820' post='2820687']
Funnily enough on a thread last month I was told in no uncertain terms that this kind of drummer (and guitarist) no longer exist.

.
[/quote]He was too

More seriously it is easy to test your hearing on-line. All you need is a decent st of headphones. I do this about every six months, so far so good. Anyone in a band needs to do this regularly because you know sooner or later your hearing is going to be affected.

Get your drummer to take the test, at least then you'll know what you are dealing with. It's not unreasonable to protect your hearing. At least you still can go to another band, if your hearing is destroyed you won't ever play again.

Here's the test http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/your-hearing/look-after-your-hearing/check-your-hearing/take-the-check.aspx

It just took me five minutes to complete,

If everything is muffled your guitarist is using the wrong ear defenders, get ones especially made for musicians and not the industrial protection ones.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436787820' post='2820687']
Funnily enough on a thread last month I was told in no uncertain terms that this kind of drummer (and guitarist) no longer exist.

.
[/quote] No, you weren't. Nice attempt at revisionism though.

[4-string-thing]

I had a similar thing, except it wasn't the drummers fault, he was just trying to keep up with two guitarists who thought that a pair of 200w Blackstar half stacks had to be turned up to "get their sound".... I left before I went deaf.

Funnily enough I was thinking the other day (as I played through my 500w Markbass rig) how I played my first ever gig in 1977 with a 30W Selmer bass combo whilst the guitars used a 15w Carlsboro Stingray and a 50w Fal PA, which the vocals went through too. Have drum kits really got much louder than in those days? I'm guessing not, so maybe 70's watts were "real" watts after all?

[uncle psychosis]

To the OP---there's not much you can do, beyond asking the drummer to change his ways. Not being able to play the songs at an acceptable volume is no better than not being able to play the songs in time. To be blunt, if you go out in public like this then the rest of the band are just as culpable as the drummer is---unless you can find a technological solution (which seems unlikely) then either he changes or one of you walks.

[72deluxe]

Thanks for the info on the hearing test - I'll do that at home. The guitarist is a guitar teacher so subjects himself to noise all evening long and also keenly practices so subjects himself to noise all the time. If you go in the room where he is practicing the volume is pretty immense and he has treble cranked right up, which I suspect indicates some hearing loss in that area.

I will send them all that hearing test link - I have a set of DT770 headphones to try on. I went for a hearing test years ago and that was informative; he recommended avoiding noise as much as possible just to avoid noise-induced hearing loss, and limit how much time I spent listening to music on headphones or earphones. I now try and listen to everything as quiet as possible.

I do have a pair of Vic Firth ear defenders which I sometimes wear in addition to my earplugs, just to make a point...

The problem is that I end up playing harder because I can't hear so then get callouses on the fingers from playing too hard. Practice should sort that out though.

The guitarist does use a Marshall preamp to get "his" sound but then takes the line-outs of that to the line-ins on two 60w combos (yes, two; for stereo apparently, but you can only possibly hear the stereo from one single point in front of them...). I recently downsized to a 2x10 cab as 4x10 was too much really; if only I could convince the others that volume is not music. Hopefully the hearing loss indicators will be enough to show them.

From most of the advice here, it'll likely end up with me leaving as it is ridiculous.

Edited July 13, 2015 by 72deluxe

[sarah thomas]

Just tried the hearing test Phil Starr put a link to [url="http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/your-hearing/look-after-your-hearing/check-your-hearing/take-the-check.aspx"]http://www.actiononh...-the-check.aspx[/url] and thought my headphones were broken at first. The test checks one ear and then the other. Despite my idiocy, my hearing seems to be okay for my age. Thanks Phil.