Bilbo Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is great stuff. Really useful insights. I book a lot a major (?) UK Jazz artists as guests for my local venture and they rarely get paid more than £150 (plus accommodation), some quite noted players even less. To make a decent living like that you would have to be out almost every night, driving around the country (and some are). To be fair, these same artists may be getting a LOT more for other gigs (Festivals, prestige London venues, foreign tours etc) but, generally, it all feels a little 'hand to mouth'. Like others here, a lot of pros will tell us semis that it is the semi-pros who have all the fun and none of the stress. I get why that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiatcoupe432 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 if you wanna make money out of music need to be a solo artist, something that does involve lots of expenses I was lucky enough to get sign with my band by 3 labels vagrant U S , sony australia , and Dirty hit UK Now we spend 3 years touring with full band . sound guy , light ing, tour manager and guitar tech ! we play venue size of 1.000/3.000 , fees are about a grand per night , now when you pay £100 guitar tech, £200 sound man,£150 light ing,£150 manager then hotel cost , petrol , pds, bus rental , you pretty much end up in debit!then you make some money from merchandising , which of course label as a %, we are lucky as we are on 50-50 deal!. cut things short , i could have earned more if i would have worked! good things if you are a solo artist , you can avoid all this cost and actually make some money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiatcoupe432 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) better be a session musician!!! we used few session musicians and i was jealous as on 50 days tour at £200 a day they were making good money , when i had to struggle all the time Edited February 5, 2015 by fiatcoupe432 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I asked Lee Sklar whether he charged multiples of scale like, say, Will Lee. He said he doesn't. Nile Rodgers splits every collaboration 50/50 regardless of the contribution. If you look at what Nathan East has managed to work out...a million dollar home plus other properties...persumably from the success of Foreplay's touring and album sales as well as his sessions and wife's occupation as a paeditrician...he's done extremely well for himself. We used to have Kylie's keyboardist from her Fever tours dep with us and he said his pay was pretty much the same as if he was in a function band. Just that he got paid for gigging every night rather than once a week. I think its hard to tie down earnings, there are so many different potential sources from merchandising through to spin off work and marrying into the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if some of the big name artists expect their hired musicians to actually work for less due to the prestige of being involved with the project. It certainly worked like that in advertising/graphic design where prestigious companies/brands would expect the design agency I worked for to reduce their usual fees because of the kudos working for them would bring. In return we found that we could get all our suppliers (models, photographers, printers etc.) to work at similarly reduced rates simply because being part of the project would look good on their CV or displayed in the reception area of their offices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1423085830' post='2680653'] I've gigged with John Colhan of Status Que fame. He goes out as Coglan's Quo ... [/quote] Are either of these guys related to John Coghlan? I'm guessing that Status Que are a tribute band, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Que? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1423085830' post='2680653'] I've gigged with John Colhan of Status Que fame. He goes out as Coglan's Quo for a minimum of a grand a night plus expenses. We got 250 a head on a normal gig and on occasions double that. [/quote] He did a local pub at £10 a ticket so I would think it would be a squeeze for the pub to hit that figure. I think they just about did and they are happy to have him back so I guess it works. Many ex names are doing the same thing but the name wants the bulk of the money and the rest pay for pub money. This generally means the band is pub standard and that is a lot of money for venues to stump up .. it is a tight game. £250 per man is generous, so that's cool Edited February 5, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Also a regular gigging pro has to account for the things from his fee that many 'amateurs' doing pub gigs don't - like tax and putting something aside for a pension plan. I expect many muso's don't think they can afford to put money aside, as Bilbo said it's all a bit hand to mouth and then they either have to work until they drop or rely on goodwill to get them through tough times, health issues etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Way back in her day, Tina Turner ( it was said ) would not break her bands pay scale to get in a guy who wanted £5k a week...and this was at a time just before she was doing all the huge dates..so as a touring act she was a hot as they come..at that time. Not sure if the band ....who she stuck by for years, had a pay review to take into account her revised status but the guy basically blew out all her major TV gigs in Rio and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1423137149' post='2681169'] ... a guy who wanted £5k a week ... [/quote] You could have Wayne Rooney's left shoulder for that amount ... well, most of it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I found a site the other day where you could put your salary in and pick a pro footballer and it would tell you how long they take to earn your total annual salary. The big names were earning mine in roughly a quarter of an hour, and the figure I put in was before any deductions. Different world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) A keyboard player I worked with a few years ago mentioned to me that the other musicians that played for Texas were on about 70k a year when the band were at their most popular. This could be nonsense but the guy was quite a honest man. If true, it`s decent money to do something you love. Edited February 5, 2015 by jezzaboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) [quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1423146172' post='2681384'] A keyboard player I worked with a few years ago mentioned to me that the other musicians that played for Texas were on about 70k a year when the band were at their most popular. This could be nonsense but the guy was quite a honest ma. If true, it`s decent money to do something you love. [/quote] I'm sure that's true, but you have to remember that it can be a short career. The ones who prosper in the long term are those who get the songwriting credits / points. Edited February 5, 2015 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChick Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1423140424' post='2681253'] I found a site the other day where you could put your salary in and pick a pro footballer and it would tell you how long they take to earn your total annual salary. The big names were earning mine in roughly a quarter of an hour, and the figure I put in was before any deductions. Different world. [/quote] My friend sent me that today. It I would take me 707 years to earn Gareth Bales annual salary. I guess sport is more lucrative As for the comment that semi pros have the best if both worlds, this is probably true. My friend is a phenomenal singer, she's always in demand for studio work, she's in my band, has her own rock band, her own folk band and she has said many times it's only through her partners support that she can be a full time musician. If he wasn't earning enough to run the house, she'd have no chance. She has a degree in Music Performance, and when times have been particularly tough (like when she split from her husband) she has taken on part time work to supplement her music earnings to keep her family afloat. Now her children are grown up and have left home, and now she has a supportive partner (he's awesome!) she's now back to being a full time musician but it hasn't been easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I can't offer much insight into session players but I have a fair bit of experience within recorded music; the % of bands/acts signed to major labels that earn even minimum wage a year is tiny. The upfront costs are huge & recoupment happens very slowly due to the artists getting such a small royalty back from sales. Sync is a good place for them to earn, this forums favorites Royal Blood would be a good example of a band earning very little in royalties but probably getting an alright bit of money from other activities (depending on their deal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1423146172' post='2681384'] A keyboard player I worked with a few years ago mentioned to me that the other musicians that played for Texas were on about 70k a year when the band were at their most popular. This could be nonsense but the guy was quite a honest man. If true, it`s decent money to do something you love. [/quote] That band was regular and she mostly only changed round the drummer. A friend of mine got a tour when the incumbent drummer wanted more money and within 2 weeks, the other guy was out, the new guy in and the tour started. He wont tell me what the money was but he earned very well at the time, I know. Those days have gone, but I'd still expect a band of that stature to pay well..but within the market they operate now. I assume the deal he cut ..he was cheaper than the other guy tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Are either of these guys related to John Coghlan?[/font][/color][/quote] Coghlan's Quo is Jon Coghlan on drums playing early Quo stuff - the Francis Rossi stand-in wears a kilt. Not that has any relevance to the thread or his earnings at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1423137149' post='2681169'] Way back in her day, Tina Turner ( it was said ) would not break her bands pay scale to get in a guy who wanted £5k a week...and this was at a time just before she was doing all the huge dates..so as a touring act she was a hot as they come..at that time. Not sure if the band ....who she stuck by for years, had a pay review to take into account her revised status but the guy basically blew out all her major TV gigs in Rio and the like. [/quote] Reminds of Bowie's band. In the mid-70s Earl Slick was promptly shown the door when he demanded more money. Fast-forward to the Let's Dance period, when Stevie Ray Vaughan becomes flavour of the month. He demands more money, is shown the door, and is replaced by... Earl Slick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Pomplamoose 2014 tour profits & expenses https://medium.com/@jackconte/pomplamoose-2014-tour-profits-67435851ba37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Sam Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1423135780' post='2681148'] Are either of these guys related to John Coghlan? I'm guessing that Status Que are a tribute band, right? [/quote] Phone auto correct. Doh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 [quote name='jrixn1' timestamp='1423154909' post='2681558'] Pomplamoose 2014 tour profits & expenses [url="https://medium.com/@jackconte/pomplamoose-2014-tour-profits-67435851ba37"]https://medium.com/@...ts-67435851ba37[/url] [/quote] We've been here before as well! ; http://basschat.co.uk/topic/250192-tour-expenses-interesting-read/page__hl__tour%20expenses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brookes Music Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Not sure if I'm a pro, or a semi pro or what really. Music is my sole source of income.....but 90% of my earnings are from teaching guitar rather than cash from gigs. Basically I have two projects that only do paid gigs....they're both relatively new so pay isn't yet as high as what it could be. Hopefully they'll be doing around 50 paid gigs a year between them. Add that income to my income from teaching and before expenses on a good year I probably scrape the national average salary. I don't think that I'd have it in me to just rely on gigs for an income though. I've got a mortgage and a wife etc and like the the relatively stability of my teaching income. I absolutely love my job though. I put in a lot of hours term time, especially if I'm teaching 9-7 then have a gig too! But I only work full time for 38 weeks a year. The rest of the time, I'll do a gig a week to tide me over and spend time relaxing etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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