Ive gone off Fender.

[RhysP]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1421254842' post='2659025']
Ive got a picture of myself, i'm playing a Fender with a music stand in use. Should I hand myself in , or wait till they come?
[/quote]

The service revolver is in the bureau in the study. We'll all leave the room for five minutes, you know what to do....

[discreet]

Hey, I like Barefaced cabs, me!

Anyway, I played a Fender USA P Bass for 36 years and loved it. Then I joined Basschat, got GAS and now I'm playing a Spector Euro and loving it. Seriously thinking about buying another Spector... but I'm sure at some point in the future I'll buy another P bass. Maybe it'll be a Fender, maybe not.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1421308732' post='2659550']
I could not see how the American NS could be so much better that it cost two or three grand more. The Euro is pretty much perfect, but there's a snobbish market that demands things to be made in America.
[/quote]

I wondered about that too. I'm hoping to get our Billy round with his USA Helium and compare it with my Czech Euro. I will post a full report with audio files in due course!

Edited January 16, 2015 by discreet

[fretlessguy]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420998387' post='2656003']
Buy what you like and play what you like.
[/quote]

Truer words are very rarely spoken.

[Jazzjames]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1421261496' post='2659142']
+1

What I love best about my Lull is that Mike Lull made it himself, no other luthiers were involved so he assured the quality right through to the end result. It has his name on it, only himself to blame if it's sh*te, not a paid employee who does the same bit day in day out. No offence meant, to the employee or Fender, that's just how it is.

Mike Lull is in his early 60's now, when he retires that's it. I like the old school in that and must resist the forces of GAS requesting that I special order an ash body maple neck P4 in trans black, lol!
[/quote]

I think you'll find that Mike Lull puts out about 300 instruments a year. Good luck doing that on your own. He does work on every bass but not on his own.

I believe that people are rightly into the fender sound, afterall, most of the music we listen to that was made in the 50s/60s onwards was played on fender basses, so it's kind of in our minds and culture- that's the sound when we think of bass.

Is a modern fender anymore of a fender than a D. lakin or limelight or whatever? In my opinion no. Leo Fender left that company a long time ago and they've sort of been treading water ever since. But I get why- what amazing designs!

I do also believe that with passive basses the wood has to be that much better to allow the bass to 'speak'. active electronics can compensate for things like that. Passive designs are simple but you'd better do it well!

This is what I was thinking with the whole QC part of this thread. You can't know when you match a neck to a body will sound like. Some will be awesome. Most with be alright. Some will be no good. But as long as it looks ok they send them out.

Have I ever played an american standard that I liked? No. But i bet there are loads of good ones out there. I've played plenty of early 60s p basses that weren't all that either.

For those who are interested: i have a mike lull PJ5 and a MIJ 57 p bass. I love them both and I doubt I will sell either as I never come away from a gig disappointed with how they sound in a band context. How I sound is another matter!

Edited January 16, 2015 by Jazzjames

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1421404716' post='2660752']
I think you'll find that Mike Lull puts out about 300 instruments a year. Good luck doing that on your own. He does work on every bass but not on his own.

[/quote]

I'm genuinely interesetd to know how you know that as a fact? I'm aware he makes that number per year.

I've been to his workshop, it's just him on the basses as far as I could see, and he stated that to me too. He has two guys that work on the repair side of his business.

If you make bodies and necks etc in sets and with machine help then of course it's possible. Plus he said he often works 6-7 day weeks and long hours. Lest say he works 48 weeks a year, that's just over 6 basses a week.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1421405634' post='2660769']
I'm genuinely interesetd to know how you know that as a fact? I'm aware he makes that number per year.

I've been to his workshop, it's just him on the basses as far as I could see, and he stated that to me too. He has two guys that work on the repair side of his business.

If you make bodies and necks etc in sets and with machine help then of course it's possible. Plus he said he often works 6-7 day weeks and long hours. Lest say he works 48 weeks a year, that's just over 6 basses a week.
[/quote]

That almost 1 bass every day. When you look at it like that I think you'll agree that it isn't a feasible number for a single custom builder working on his own.

Simon Farmer who makes Gus basses says that a standard instrument build (with no custom features) takes him 100 working hours to complete. At 10 hours a day, 6 days a week that's only about 30 instruments a year.

While I imagine that a Lull bass won't take quite so long to build I doubt they are 10 times as quick to make!

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1421408456' post='2660808']
That almost 1 bass every day. When you look at it like that I think you'll agree that it isn't a feasible number for a single custom builder working on his own.

Simon Farmer who makes Gus basses says that a standard instrument build (with no custom features) takes him 100 working hours to complete. At 10 hours a day, 6 days a week that's only about 30 instruments a year.

While I imagine that a Lull bass won't take quite so long to build I doubt they are 10 times as quick to make!
[/quote]

But these are Fender style instruments, simply designs that machines can easily knock out for simple finishing. Plus PLEK machines do time consuming work on the frets.

I see you point of course, and it's easy to say he's a liar and has help. Personally, having been there, met him, seen the set up and read alot of web content, I'd prefer to believe him than make accusations.

EDIT - but it's not a bass a day - if i wanted to make 6 x P4's I wouldn't do one, then another, then another etc. I'd do the bodies, then the necks, then the hardware, soldering etc etc. 6 done by the end of the week. Hard work? Yes. Impossible? Perhaps not if you;re experienced and skilled.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Chiliwailer

[Jazzjames]

Yeah fair enough, I take your point. I am in no way calling Mike Lull a liar, I have the upmost faith in his work and the instruments that he produces- hence I own one. I read the 300 instruments a year thing here:

[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2011/12/15/custom-shop-an-interview-with-mike-lull/"]http://www.notreble....with-mike-lull/[/url]

And have since reread it and indeed he does do the work himself. I guess I assumed that he must have help at 1 bass a day!

Edited January 16, 2015 by Jazzjames

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1421411805' post='2660861']
Yeah fair enough, I take your point. I am in no way calling Mike Lull a liar, I have the upmost faith in his work and the instruments that he produces- hence I own one. I read the 300 instruments a year thing here:

[url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2011/12/15/custom-shop-an-interview-with-mike-lull/"]http://www.notreble....with-mike-lull/[/url]

And have since reread it and indeed he does do the work himself. I guess I assumed that he must have help at 1 bass a day!
[/quote]

I was as shocked as you mate!

[discreet]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1421411805' post='2660861']
I guess I assumed that he must have help at 1 bass a day!
[/quote]

It's possible if you do it all the time, you're motivated, you have a system and you have the best possible equipment.
Going by his reputation and the quality of his output I'd say he's probably at the height of his powers.

[dadofsix]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1421254842' post='2659025']
Ive got a picture of myself, i'm playing a Fender with a music stand in use. Should I hand myself in , or wait till they come?
[/quote]
[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1421323389' post='2659797']
The service revolver is in the bureau in the study. We'll all leave the room for five minutes, you know what to do....


[/quote]

Dammit man! I snorted my tea into my nose and nearly soaked my keyboard reading this. Some warning, PLEASE!!

[Opticaleye]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1421414979' post='2660922']
It's possible if you do it all the time, you're motivated, you have a system and you have the best possible equipment.
Going by his reputation and the quality of his output I'd say he's probably at the height of his powers.
[/quote]

According to the article he has an employee who went to luthier school and it just states that he assembles each one himself.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Opticaleye

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Opticaleye' timestamp='1421441845' post='2661404']


According to the article he has an employee who went to luthier school and it just states that he assembles each one himself.
[/quote]

It also states "they're full on repair guys". A good repair guy most often comes from Luthier school Assemble can also mean manufacture, or in the above case, whatever you deem it to mean.

I couldn't give two hoots about defending Lull, I care even less if anyone helps him. Benefit of the doubt may be better perhaps and I'll Always defend that when a good mans reputation and honesty is at stake, and he really was a cool guy when I met him last year.

From the Lull website...
Hands-On
To this day, Mike continues to hand build and test each and every bass and guitar that leaves his shop. He works with each customer creating a custom instrument to fit their individual needs and desires.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Chiliwailer

[Opticaleye]

I really don't have a metaphorical dog in this fight, I just read it that he does the final assembly himself.

[Opticaleye]

I've just read the email with what you wrote before you edited it and I'm sorry if you thought my comment was a slight against Mike Lull. It was not intended that way and was just meant to be an explanation for how he manages to build 300 basses per year. He also does 30-40% of his repairs himself (as well as the 300 basses) despite employing the other 2 technical employees who you understand just do the other 60-70% of repairs between them !

Even with help it does not diminish his skills or the quality of his basses in my opinion but I doubt that he's superhuman.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Opticaleye

[bassbiscuits]

I love my Fenders - I have two precisions and a jazz, all USA, plus a MIJ strat and a cheapish acoustic.

They were all bought secondhand over the last 20 years, not because I went looking for a Fender, but because on each occasion they were the best match for what I needed.

And certainly in the case of the strat and both p basses, they are still among the best examples I've ever played.

Saying that I've also played a fair few pretty average Fenders too- I just didn't buy them!

I'm sure there are higher end makers producing better than off-the-peg Fenders, but for me they tick an awful lot of the right boxes.

[gsgbass]

I've had just the opposite run with recent Fender Am. Std. Jazzes, and Precisions. The QC is very good, the sounds are good also. Very well balanced, and hold their intonation solidly. I can't ask for more from a production line bass.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='gsgbass' timestamp='1422067480' post='2668446']
I've had just the opposite run with recent Fender Am. Std. Jazzes, and Precisions. The QC is very good, the sounds are good also. Very well balanced, and hold their intonation solidly. I can't ask for more from a production line bass.
[/quote]

Same here, I love mine, it is just a proper bit of kit and one I dont mind using in anger, I hope in years to come it will tell a tale of my gigging life. I can see my Jazz as a keeper, 5 strings, 3tsb, tort and well made, it would lose a lot if I sold it and I would only want another later as it fits the bill in every band situation so I can see other basses rotating around the Jazz. Classic US made bass with a Spaghetti Fender logo, what is not to like?

[Telebass]

Strangely, the spaghetti logo is what puts me off US Fenders...I prefer the TV logo from 69-74 (ish).

[stingrayPete1977]

Really?, I love it! Lol It wouldn't have put me off without it though in fairness

[gsgbass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1422095697' post='2668592']
Same here, I love mine, it is just a proper bit of kit and one I dont mind using in anger, I hope in years to come it will tell a tale of my gigging life. I can see my Jazz as a keeper, 5 strings, 3tsb, tort and well made, it would lose a lot if I sold it and I would only want another later as it fits the bill in every band situation so I can see other basses rotating around the Jazz. Classic US made bass with a Spaghetti Fender logo, what is not to like?
[/quote]

Very well stated Sir.

[Telebass]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1422138721' post='2669235']
Strangely, the spaghetti logo is what puts me off US Fenders...I prefer the TV logo from 69-74 (ish).
[/quote]
I can remember buying my first Fender (75 Precision) and being disappointed that it didn't have that big logo. It had one of the early sans serif logos - but with the serial still on the neckplate.

[artisan]

Well I think Fenders are crap
(Runs away with cheeky grin on his face)

Edited January 25, 2015 by artisan

[JTUK]

I had a conversation with Sei about the numbers they could make, and MP said they could do 30-40 a year,
That implies they are still very labour intensive, to me.

[discreet]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1422180889' post='2669451']
I can remember buying my first Fender (75 Precision) and being disappointed that it didn't have that big logo. It had one of the early sans serif logos - but with the serial still on the neckplate.
[/quote]

That must have been a transition instrument - my 76 P had the big Type 'C' TV logo and the number on the neck plate. It was during that year the number moved to the headstock and the logo changed to the sans serif logo - for most P basses of the time, anyway.

Edited January 25, 2015 by discreet