Problems hearing myself playing live....

[John Cellario]

Anyone else frustrated by this? The band I play in is not particularly loud - during rehearsals I can distinguish my sound perfectly well, but when it comes to playing gigs I just cannot hear myself clearly, which means any nuances or subtleties goes out of the window.

It's as if I'm listening underwater...I can feel the 'bottom end' thud but individual notes are unclear. The type of gigs we play means small stages so we're all cramped closely together, myself next to the drummer and keyboards. Standing a foot or two away from the stack doesn't help, as the sound is getting thrown past where I'm standing. On the last gig, we were miked from the house PA, so there were monitors with instruments and vocals adding to the sound I was hearing, which from my point of view, worsened the problem instead of helping.

My gear is OK...Sandberg Jazz, EBS head, Hartke 1x15' and a 2x10 cab, I go for that back pick up, boppy tone. The guitarist has suggested taking the 2x10 off the stack and placing it in front of me, wedged, pointing upwards as a sort of monitor.

I'm just interested in anyone else's experiences on this...I've played for over 30 years and I suppose it's always been a bit of an issue...maybe my hearing is also getting a bit naff.

[Roland Rock]

How is your EQs set? If you don't have enough mids you can really struggle to be heard

[Lozz196]

Sounds to me more an issue of the keyboards frequencies not necessarily being louder than you, but blotting out the bass due to the positioning, if at rehearsals the problem isn`t there.

[Japhet]

Do you rehearse at gig volume?

[BottomE]

Lots of variable in this scenario. Things that could be a factor in no particular order:
[list]
[*]Where you stand relative to your cabs
[*]Volume of other members of the band
[*]EQ Squeezing - where guitars and keys have too much bottom end and blur your sound
[*]Your own volume relative to others in the band
[*]Your EQ
[/list]

Do you ever get the chance to stand and listen as if from the perspective of the audience?

[icastle]

You're probably standing too close to your bass rig - shove it right back as far as you can get it and make sure you're standing as far forward as you can get.

Ignore the 1x15, just make sure your 2x10 is pointing at you, if it's not, twist it so it is.

I always find that the monitors are far too loud, yes, you need to hear what everyone else is doing, but not so much that you lose track of what you're doing.
Ask for your monitor to be turned down.
If that request falls on deaf ears, point it at someone else or unplug it.

[JTUK]

Don't know what sound you have but it sounds a plain bad mix issue to me.
You have to seperate the sounds not try and compete with them...
If you try and force your way thru... that is helping no one.

To simply this... at gig sound check you have to start with the drums and then
add bass. You'll hear this well enough...and then just pick off what intruments cause
the mix to go. I would suspect the keys and gtrs are in your 'layer' but you are going to have
to work on this as a band and get consensus as there isn't a lot of hope on your own.
Tight stages/palying area compound this but you need band discipline to get the sound AND keep it.

Another thing, you can forget a good band sound if the drummer can't get a sound out of his kit and many can't..
but that has likely less bearing on this 'mix' issue, IMV

If you really can't fix this amongst yourselves, get a GOOD engr down to help you as he should know
all about layers. Probably a studio engr rather than live, IMO but depends on the engr... NOT a mate..!!

[Bassman Steve]

Happened to me once. Great sound at the soundcheck but heard nothing at all other than the distant rumble through the FOH at show time. Took me 3 numbers to figure out the standby switch was 'off'.

[Lw.]

How tall are you? It could be worth raising the stack a little if you're stood close as your head might be outside the projection of the 210 so you're only getting the dull 15" sound.

Though as others have said; some work with the eq would probably help. .

[bertbass]

Have you tried standing the 2x10 on end? It will bring the speakers closer to your ears and add to better dispersion.

[cameltoe]

Someone will be along shortly to advise you buy a Stingray....

[FuNkShUi]

I dont know how you EQ your sound, but the setting i would suggest is to boost your low mids if you feel your missing "thump", and boost your high mids if your missing articulation of notes.
Thats what i do, but admittedly, im no expert on sound!
Another thing you could do is kick your keyboard player in the nuts and make sure his bass isnt boosted. This also works extremely well

[Mr Fretbuzz]

Don't forget to mention to kick the guitarist in the nuts as well Kurt :-)

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh you're right. That also works a treat

[lowdown]

Are you a light player by nature (you mentioned a 30 year problem)?
Is turning up out of the question?
Just asking, because back pup playing usually punches through quite easily,
and Nuances and little subtle articulations should shine out.

Someone above mentioned tipping the 2x10 on it's side (when stacked).
I am 6'3" and I usually do that if struggling to hear myself when on a standing gig.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1410421345' post='2549182']
Don't forget to mention to kick the guitarist in the nuts as well Kurt :-)
[/quote]
Most don't have them. That's why they try to compensate with extreme volume and long solos.

[BILL POSTERS]

If theres room walk around the stage, see if it helps, usually does for me. If theres not try angling your cab upwards a bit or get it a bit higher.

[John Cellario]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions....I have tried turning the 2x10 on end to make it higher as I am pretty tall, but couldn't determine any improvement.

I do boost my mids as I like to use a back PU punchy boppy sound ...so I reckon the main problem is the sound shooting straight past me as I can't stand far enough away from the stack on small stages. In rehearsal I'm about 6' away.

When you think about it, we're used to hear our sound coming at us from behind, when in fact we could do with receiving it from the front! Maybe a monitor in front of me is an idea or train my ears to swivel around 180 degrees!!

[Phil Starr]

First have a go at this, it's been here before but everyone in a band should do it from time to time.

http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/your-hearing/look-after-your-hearing/check-your-hearing/take-the-check.aspx

Forget about eq unless your rig is just for you and not for the audience, having it sound good for you whilst the audience hears a tinny, over loud sound is for guitarists you have to eq for the audience and the room, but if you put bass through the PA you can boost tops and mids a little on-stage and boost the bass with the PA.

Assuming your hearing checks out OK I really think the problem is an over loud on-stage sound. There ar tiny muscles in your middle ear that contract and lock up the tiny bones that transmit sound when it gets too loud. This limits the damage to your inner ear but distorts the sound. You stand no real chance of hearing anything clearly when it gets too loud. If you are like me and probably 90% of musicians then all the band are working harder once the adrenaline of the gig kicks in and your volume increases to beyond the sound check and rehearsal levels. Sometimes wearing ear plugs actually helps you hear better so long as they are the ones which are designed for musicians not for power tool users.

Point your speakers at your ears, use a kickback or a stand, but mainly turn down.

the other problem with little pubs is that in tiny spaces with low walls and the sides of the room right up close you get a lot of reverberent sound which boosts the bass, edge off the bass a bit and you should hear the rest a little better. Good luck, hope your hearing checks out.

[xgsjx]

This could be down to the venue & using mixed drivers.
One problem with mixing cabs is that the rig can sound great at one venue & not so good at another. So what sounds good in rehearsal can be totally lost in another room.
Mixed cabs can create dead spots, where it can sound great at 20' away from the rig, but at 5' or 30' there's either too little or too much bass.
Having 2 identical cabs would take away this inconsistency. Stacking vertically gives a better dispersion across the stage.

It might also be worth increasing the low mids on your sound & rolling off a touch of the bottom (depending on the genre of music), like Phil says.