GreeneKing Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This may have been discussed before but I recently spotted a for sale thread where the seller said he'd ship but that it would be at the responsibility of the buyer. I always get more than a little nervous when the courier collects a bass for delivery. I'm not sure I sleep soundly until it's delivered and I always take responsibility for this as the seller. If I insure the contents I pay and again I feel that the insurance is for me if things go wrong. I don't see that it benefits the buyer or that they should contribute for my protection. This can easily double the shipping costs and even then it may not be sufficient in the event of a total loss. I had a cab get fairly trashed a few months back and I sought the price of a new driver and tweeter through the insurance and successfully recovered my costs for this. The buyer kindly waited for the bits and fitted them and for that I was thankful. Obviously (?) if a dealer sells an item they have an obligation to see it's safe delivery to the buyer. I'd be interested to see if anyone on BC thinks otherwise for a private seller? And yes, I do have an expensive bass 'in the system' at the moment and as usual, I'm worrying Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I am the same as you, until a bass or Cab/Head I have shipped arrives safely, I cannot relax! Bit of a cop-out by the Seller as it shifts the responsibility from them to the Buyer. I guess if it is a Collect Only item and they can't be fussed with postage then it's understandable but does not make the item more saleable ( unless its a 66 Jazz for £1500)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Surely the only person who can make a claim from the courier is the person who paid them to do the work. So if it's the seller, the buyer has no way of claiming from the courier's insurance? So if the seller places the order for the shipment (with insurance) and he declares he's not responsible then there is, in effect, no insurance in place. Answer - don't buy from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza 2905 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Sellers responsibility, - no doubt. Grangur's right, If they won't take responsibility, don't buy from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Right, simple privity of contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I hasten to add, I was never considering buying it anyway. It's not advice I'm after, more discussion. I'm glad the consensus appears to be as it is. Edited January 28, 2014 by GreeneKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Rotten Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think the seller refusing to be responsible for shipping also reduces the incentive for the seller to make doubly, doubly sure about packing the item well and offering the best possible protection. Otherwise they (in theory at least) could get away with a single layer of bubble wrap and a few bin liners to send a bass guitar through the post without worry of comeback if (and in all likelihood) when it arrives at the other end damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 You could argue that it's actually the most conscientious sellers who refuse to risk things getting damaged in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Seller every time. I`ve not sent anything that hasn`t been insured for the value of the item, and always provide the consignment number/shipping details to the buyer. One time a bass I sent - to Greece - got caught up and I contacted many different people, the courier, Greek customs etc, as I considered it my responsibility until the item is in the buyers hands. It shouldn`t be up to a buyer to organise any of this, or to have to contact couriers if the items go missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 And it's [b]whose[/b], not who's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1390927955' post='2351407'] You could argue that it's actually the most conscientious sellers who refuse to risk things getting damaged in the post. [/quote] Ah, but if the risk is entirely on the seller then surely it can't be conscientious ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That sounds the wrong way round to what I meant. I have this thing for sale. I really don't want to post it, so collection only please. What? You'd like to buy it but you live far away? Well, I'd really rather not post it. I don't want the responsibility; it's too much hassle, things can go wrong. What? You'd still like me to post it? Well I don't want to, but if you're willing to accept it if something goes wrong or it gets broken, then fair enough I suppose. Caveat emptor and all that. A more conscientious seller wouldn't even entertain that conversation, they'd just flat-out not post it. That was my point. Sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If I send it then I am responsible until it arrives with the buyer safely but I always get a tracking number and receipt to cover myself if god forbid the item was damaged in the post I would chase it up not the seller. The only problem I have sometimes you sell to some one a bit dodgy on ebay and they have damaged the goods and ask for a refund or say it was never posted luckily this has not happened to me and I hope it does not but I know of a few people on here who have been shafted like that not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Rotten Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1390927955' post='2351407'] You could argue that it's actually the most conscientious sellers who refuse to risk things getting damaged in the post. [/quote] True but then IMHO they maybe should refuse to post. Not agree to post but at the buyers risk. Any buyer keen enough could organise for their own courier/friend/family to collect it or to arrange a roadtrip.... Edited January 28, 2014 by Jonnyboy Rotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 [quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1390929541' post='2351438'] sometimes you sell to some one a bit dodgy on ebay and they have damaged the goods and ask for a refund or say it was never posted luckily this has not happened to me and I hope it does not but I know of a few people on here who have been shafted like that not good [/quote] Yep, on eBay it's caveat venditor every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1390929344' post='2351431'] That sounds the wrong way round to what I meant. I have this thing for sale. I really don't want to post it, so collection only please. What? You'd like to buy it but you live far away? Well, I'd really rather not post it. I don't want the responsibility; it's too much hassle, things can go wrong. What? You'd still like me to post it? Well I don't want to, but if you're willing to accept it if something goes wrong or it gets broken, then fair enough I suppose. Caveat emptor and all that. A more conscientious seller wouldn't even entertain that conversation, they'd just flat-out not post it. That was my point. Sort of. [/quote] Well that's fair enough. However you see quite a lot of ads that offer postage straight off the bat, but at "buyer's risk". That just puts me off straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Aye, and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Unfortunately there seems to be this thing where people believe that by saying a thing it makes it so. There is a house round the corner from where I work that has a set of dodgy steps up to the door that says 'Stairs at own risk'. Well, it is nice of them to say so but unfortunately for them, just saying it isn't their fault doesn't make it so so if someone falls down it they are going to get a nasty surprise. So shipping is the responsibility of the person arranging it (and getting insurance), if you sell something and ship it, the buyer doesn't have responsibility until they have collected it and checked it. If however, the buyer organises shipping to pick it up from the seller, it is their responsibility as soon as it has been picked up (unless the seller has been completely negligent wrapping it and has promised to do so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Personally I wouldn't post a bass, if the buyer can't collect it or meet me then tough . I'm selling my TRB6P, and I've had 2 offers from people wanting to buy it, one was in the West Indies of all places, the other in France. It's too risky for me to ship it, if it gets trashed or lost then it's me that loses. I have a YP railcard and will deliver for train fare, which is probably cheaper than insured postage and a lot more reliable. Are they saying they'll post it but the buyer has to arrange shipping and insurance ? I think that's fair, as long as the seller packages it and takes photos or videos the packaging for their protection. Edited January 28, 2014 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The norm is buyer pays then seller delivers. If the seller fails to deliver for whatever reason then the money gets paid back. That's right and proper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Don't forget that a lot of times the insurance doesn't cover musical instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1390929344' post='2351431'] That sounds the wrong way round to what I meant. I have this thing for sale. I really don't want to post it, so collection only please. What? You'd like to buy it but you live far away? Well, I'd really rather not post it. I don't want the responsibility; it's too much hassle, things can go wrong. What? You'd still like me to post it? Well I don't want to, but if you're willing to accept it if something goes wrong or it gets broken, then fair enough I suppose. Caveat emptor and all that. A more conscientious seller wouldn't even entertain that conversation, they'd just flat-out not post it. That was my point. Sort of. [/quote] Fair comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As a data point, I have posted and had posted many guitars and basses, and apart from one very badly packed one, never had any issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 [quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1390918735' post='2351267'] This may have been discussed before but I recently spotted a for sale thread where the seller said he'd ship but that it would be at the responsibility of the buyer. I always get more than a little nervous when the courier collects a bass for delivery. I'm not sure I sleep soundly until it's delivered and I always take responsibility for this as the seller. If I insure the contents I pay and again I feel that the insurance is for me if things go wrong. I don't see that it benefits the buyer or that they should contribute for my protection. This can easily double the shipping costs and even then it may not be sufficient in the event of a total loss. I had a cab get fairly trashed a few months back and I sought the price of a new driver and tweeter through the insurance and successfully recovered my costs for this. The buyer kindly waited for the bits and fitted them and for that I was thankful. Obviously (?) if a dealer sells an item they have an obligation to see it's safe delivery to the buyer. I'd be interested to see if anyone on BC thinks otherwise for a private seller? And yes, I do have an expensive bass 'in the system' at the moment and as usual, I'm worrying Peter [/quote] It depends on what the agreement is. If someone says they want their bass collected, but may be persuaded to let it be posted as long as the buyer deals with it... that's another matter. If you both agree, that's all there is to it. A shop, eBay, etc is different... the deal does not finish with shipping, but with the receipt of the goods and verification they're in good condition. A private transaction between two individuals can be anything they agree to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1390953682' post='2351792'] It depends on what the agreement is. If someone says they want their bass collected, but may be persuaded to let it be posted as long as the buyer deals with it... that's another matter. If you both agree, that's all there is to it. A shop, eBay, etc is different... the deal does not finish with shipping, but with the receipt of the goods and verification they're in good condition. A private transaction between two individuals can be anything they agree to. [/quote] The trouble with that is, will the agreement stand in a court of law? Under civil law people have certain obligations. You may think you have an agreement and then when something goes wrong you may find yourself without 'a leg to stand on'. In principle I see only sense in the above but I also see the potential for sellers to abdicate responsibility, or at least try to. I don't think that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.