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Markbass - all made in Indonesia now and heavy?

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[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1392656918' post='2371165']
This question has been answered:
[/quote]
Has it? I've trawled this topic and can't find the answer.
What I was trying to get at was, surely a 2x10 at 18KG is no longer lightweight, if the Standard 4x10 is 21Kg. I would suggest the Traveler 102p should now be called a Standard 102p.

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[quote name='Marco Markbass' timestamp='1392675619' post='2371586']
Therei is not any factor! All rest of the Amps is the same on mini cmd 121.
[/quote]

So you're saying that there have been no changes to the CMD121P other than lighter "higher quality" plywood. You're still using poplar-ply, so the material hasn't changed. Fair enough. Then surely the plywood would have to be substantially thinner in order to account for a weight reduction as great as 3.6kg in such a very small box, no? If so, wouldn't that suggest a notable structural difference between the Italian and Indonesian models which would have a bearing on tonal character? If I'm missing something here, or if I'm completely off-track with my basic logic, then please correct me. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject.

There is some practical basis to this. I've just bought an older (Italian) CMD121P. I'm wondering, if I was to add a new (Indonesian) NY121 extension cab, would that cab sound the same as the older Italian version which was constructed in the same fashion and using the same materials as my combo, and which fits it like a glove? It's a fair enough consideration, I reckon.

Edited by Fionn

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I think it is very good that a very good name manufacturer comes on here and spends time answering questions but I feel BC tends to milk this
and wants to poke its nose into manufacturing and commercial decisions that frankly aren't its business and the maker might not want to disclose either.

Tech specs are one thing but take them at face value and try not to scare the guys off. We've done it before with bass names so try and not make this a place to avoid.

I just think having established a line of comms, we then ask too much
If we respect the kit, then realise this is a business decsion and judge accordingly and you'll buy or you wont but other makers don't come here for the scrutiny and its a fine line between decent PR and chasing the few that do come here, away................

just my 2p...

Edited by JTUK

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1392799341' post='2372778']
I think it is very good that a very good name manufacturer comes on here and spends time answering questions but I feel BC tends to milk this
and wants to poke its nose into manufacturing and commercial decisions that frankly aren't its business and the maker might not want to disclose either
[/quote]

It's commendable and impressive, that the head of Markbass has taken the time to talk on a players forum. Respect, for sure.

Isn't it right though, that the folk who specifically represent the (actual and potential) market for these products should be able to ask questions if the opportunity arises? Nobody is milking anything. We spend our hard-earned money on this stuff, we are genuinely interested. Folk make decisions (rightly or wrongly) based upon the things that have been discussed in this thread. Ultimately, it's up to Marco how much information he imparts, how he chooses to do so, and whether or not he answers questions.

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Totally off topic, but I've read the interesting blog on the EBMM forms about Markbass working with EBMM and re-introducing Musicman amps?!

It appears to be public knowledge so I hope I'm not treading on any toes.

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1392799341' post='2372778']
I think it is very good that a very good name manufacturer comes on here and spends time answering questions but I feel BC tends to milk this
and wants to poke its nose into manufacturing and commercial decisions that frankly aren't its business and the maker might not want to disclose either.

Tech specs are one thing but take them at face value and try not to scare the guys off. We've done it before with bass names so try and not make this a place to avoid.

I just think having established a line of comms, we then ask too much
If we respect the kit, then realise this is a business decsion and judge accordingly and you'll buy or you wont but other makers don't come here for the scrutiny and its a fine line between decent PR and chasing the few that do come here, away................

just my 2p...
[/quote]

+1

Realizing that it ofcourse has some degree of PR and commercial value, I truly respect that the head of MB takes time to read through a thread like this and answer questions politely. Giving exact production specs (weight) and vouching for the quality. Regardless of the country of manufacturing it makes me want to look closer at MB stuff !!.

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1392799341' post='2372778']
Tech specs are one thing but take them at face value
[/quote]

I may be reading this the wrong way but are you saying we shouldn't believe the specifications given on websites?

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[quote name='largo' timestamp='1392808249' post='2372902']
I may be reading this the wrong way but are you saying we shouldn't believe the specifications given on websites?
[/quote]

No, in a clumsy way, I am saying that we should accept the specs as described and ..like me.. have a private view
of what that all really means. Not dissect a manufacturer's remit TOO much on a public forum otherwise they
may not hurry back and we chase away a valuable resource..

There is a balance is all I am saying. IMO.

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I think JTUK is making a very valuable point. This place has a habit of chasing away valuable industry players. I think it boils down to ..
'show a bit of courtesy, good manners and common sense and know when to just nod politely and think what you want to'.

Edited by gafbass02

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[quote name='Marco Markbass' timestamp='1392664869' post='2371351']
regarding 102p as i wrote was my decision, but i check and i agree that traveler is Small light and with great power, so i will check, any case here i don't like to convince any one that my amps is the best, for this you need to try and to hear it, but i like that you know that the quality is better and there is no any compromise on it!

about to publicizing it in right way, there is not a right way , but as I told you i recheck all here in Italy and my way to make my cab is not the same of other brands! this is very important point!
many of you knows the story of some big brand, that had many problems with his Asian production and no one can say that it improve his quality! i can say this! I hope that my philosophy is clear, that is the more important things.
[/quote]


Many thanks Marco. Thanks for your world leading products. I have used Markbass almost exclusively for several years now and own 2 combos, 2 amps, & 5 cabs!
I am thinking of updating my CMD102P combo to the LMIII version. Are the current CMD102P models made in Indonesia?

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I use a Markbass Blackline Little Mark 250 made in Indonesia and it is superb.

Its equally as good as the Italian-made version I had a few years ago and at £250 is great value I think.

I make my own 112 cabs and the difference between the first one I made of B&Q exterior ply (lighter than birch) and the second one I made of lightweight poplar ply is 2.5 kgs. Tonally the poplar one is slightly more "open/airy". They're identical in every other respect.

Good for Marco for coming on this forum.

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I'm actually thinking of holding off to get a lighter Indonesian-made 121P combo now. My Yamaha TRBX was built in Indonesia and it oozes quality.

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[quote name='Fionn' timestamp='1392773903' post='2372673']
So you're saying that there have been no changes to the CMD121P other than lighter "higher quality" plywood. You're still using poplar-ply, so the material hasn't changed. Fair enough. Then surely the plywood would have to be substantially thinner in order to account for a weight reduction as great as 3.6kg in such a very small box, no? If so, wouldn't that suggest a notable structural difference between the Italian and Indonesian models which would have a bearing on tonal character? If I'm missing something here, or if I'm completely off-track with my basic logic, then please correct me. I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject.

There is some practical basis to this. I've just bought an older (Italian) CMD121P. I'm wondering, if I was to add a new (Indonesian) NY121 extension cab, would that cab sound the same as the older Italian version which was constructed in the same fashion and using the same materials as my combo, and which fits it like a glove? It's a fair enough consideration, I reckon.
[/quote]

I would also love to know how the combo is now lighter. Definitely considering this amp but would love to know the difference between the newer and older versions.

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[quote name='largo' timestamp='1392808249' post='2372902']
I may be reading this the wrong way but are you saying we shouldn't believe the specifications given on websites?
[/quote]
JTUK may not be saying it, but I certainly believe a degree of circumspection is required when reading the specs on some manufacturer's websites. Many mislead by failing to give meaningful parameters, whilst a few will outright lie.

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Outright lies will, of course, be an offence under Trades Descriptions legislation (though I'm sure it still happens) whereas 'non-meaningful' parameters are fair game for the marketing department.

Thing is, we buy stuff based on specification and bigger is usually best, even if we don't actually need what's actually being specified. The 0-60mph time for cars has always made me laugh, especially when you see how it is achieved in practice! Anyone driving like that on the roads would need their head examined yet it's a key specification for every car on the road. I suppose such things can be helpful for comparison purposes, but its easy to get carried away in the "spec wars" and lose sight of what we actually need from the product in the first place. Funny old world.

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I think you've hit the nail on the head.

A few years ago a well respected US manufacturer was pulled up when it was pointed out cabs made by them couldn't possibly meet the specs quoted on their website. To the manufacturer's credit an apology was issued and the specs amended. In mitigation it was said that they felt compelled to when their competitors resorted to fiction as well.

If people didn't compile shortlists based purely on specs none of this would happen.

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Dear all, i reply now because we are working on new products to show to the next Frankfurt show.
As some of yiu wrote I am excited to show a new Music Man guitar and Bass line:back to the future! Now to reply some of question, after our discussion on this forum I decided to go in production and i asked to my peoples to take all weigth of all products on 100 products so i can check exactly the weigth and his dispersion. Any case all products are more ligth as i wrote before. Another important matter, some of my guys from service wrote that i used MDF but this is not correct! I never used MDF, i love poplar woods for musical instruments. MdF is dangerous for umidity, is really heavy and we cannot use the screw as i like, so it is not good for Professional music instruments, i like a very ligth wood, great sound, also we have a special way to make cabinet, also now in Indonesia nothing is changed and i NEVER changed a cabinet in my story, we check all cabinet 100% in my company as always before to send the products and all my Tech guys that test the cabinets are very smart to understand some vibration!!
The last thingh that i want to write is that i am thinking to do a video in my production in Italy, i will do this with GoPro very soon, yiu need to see as my peoples works and which kind of control we do on our production.and the video will be on one normal work day! We check 100% of amps that we ........ you will see! I hope that i replyied to all your question. Only anotjer small story, yesterday i received a very bad email from a customer in US because he was not happy about my service there. I wrote to him personally and then my collaborator Sandra wrote to this guy and we solved his problem in 12 hours! That is what i want! In Italy we resend the gear that come in the company for service in maximum 4 days, also we ship to the dealers a Courtesy head for some musicians that has some problem with his products. So this is the philosophy that i want to export, but believe me is not simple. And feom today i started woth a special program to inderstand in all tje world how many time my customers need to wait for his gear! My goal will be to reduce this time in all the world not more one week, i will do this. I think that i wrote to much but i decovered that here i can speak with my customers and i like thay you know my world with correct information. If do you like please check my FB profile, Marco de Virgiliis and check : one day at Markworld, this is my world and today is the same!

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[quote name='Marco Markbass' timestamp='1392930439' post='2374469']
Dear all, i reply now because we are working on new products to show to the next Frankfurt show.
As some of yiu wrote I am excited to show a new Music Man guitar and Bass line:back to the future! Now to reply some of question, after our discussion on this forum I decided to go in production and i asked to my peoples to take all weigth of all products on 100 products so i can check exactly the weigth and his dispersion. Any case all products are more ligth as i wrote before. Another important matter, some of my guys from service wrote that i used MDF but this is not correct! I never used MDF, i love poplar woods for musical instruments. MdF is dangerous for umidity, is really heavy and we cannot use the screw as i like, so it is not good for Professional music instruments, i like a very ligth wood, great sound, also we have a special way to make cabinet, also now in Indonesia nothing is changed and i NEVER changed a cabinet in my story, we check all cabinet 100% in my company as always before to send the products and all my Tech guys that test the cabinets are very smart to understand some vibration!!
The last thingh that i want to write is that i am thinking to do a video in my production in Italy, i will do this with GoPro very soon, yiu need to see as my peoples works and which kind of control we do on our production.and the video will be on one normal work day! We check 100% of amps that we ........ you will see! I hope that i replyied to all your question. Only anotjer small story, yesterday i received a very bad email from a customer in US because he was not happy about my service there. I wrote to him personally and then my collaborator Sandra wrote to this guy and we solved his problem in 12 hours! That is what i want! In Italy we resend the gear that come in the company for service in maximum 4 days, also we ship to the dealers a Courtesy head for some musicians that has some problem with his products. So this is the philosophy that i want to export, but believe me is not simple. And feom today i started woth a special program to inderstand in all tje world how many time my customers need to wait for his gear! My goal will be to reduce this time in all the world not more one week, i will do this. I think that i wrote to much but i decovered that here i can speak with my customers and i like thay you know my world with correct information. If do you like please check my FB profile, Marco de Virgiliis and check : one day at Markworld, this is my world and today is the same!
[/quote]

Marco, please could you explain how the amps are now lighter than before, particularly the CMD121P. What have you changed since manufacturing the amps in Indonesia.

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Marco, without any questions at all about any of your amps, welcome to Basschat, and thanks for taking the time to explain so much about them. Really great stuff this.

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Here is Marco's video that he mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIUFBwoYrTc

Hmm, or it may be an old one!

Edited by icastle
Link fixed.

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